What are you guys doing for steering?

[KyTj]

I've been thinking about building a HA/GR, but I'm not sure about what to do for steering??:D

Also any one around Lexington building one?


Ryan

[Rand Man]

We're using a reversed, cowl mounted Corvair unit. They're small and light. There could be a better choice, but choose something that doesn't take up too much space.

[Old6rodder]

We turn the steering wheel, works most of the time.

Sorry, just couldn't resist that one. :D

Most of us are using cowl boxes and drag links.
There is some "bump steer" if you don't (or can't) set the geometry right on but as few drag strips have much to offer in the way of moguls it's seldom a problem.

[KyTj]

Could I see some pics:D

[moparsled]

Mine will be set up similar to the others, center mounted, left side drag link. The box is from a Westcoaster 3 wheeler (like a Cushman 3 wheeler) really small and light, nice mounting pattern, splined mild steel pitman arm. I haven't started on it yet, I'll post pics when I do.

[Old6rodder]

I know it's tacky to leave it full size, but it'll help to see the detail.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-1/1139091/MVC-006Sf.JPG

[2b-banjo]

The reversed Corvair unit is a good way to go. If you need help getting it out the side for cowl type steering PM me, I have a kit.
2B

[Toymaker]

The reversed Corvair unit is a good way to go. If you need help getting it out the side for cowl type steering PM me, I have a kit.
2B
2B, I'm interested in your kit could you elaborate. I'm using a F1 box and need some ideas.

[64 DODGE 440]

Our box is of unknown parentage from something metric, maybe Fiat. Very small and light.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/1355/hagrboxxw8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[sgtmcd42]

on my old ha/gr I used an early vw stearing box. it worked great.

[KyTj]

Thanks for the help, I was thinking a samurai box might work. But I am not sure about keeping the wheel centered?

[Rand Man]

Are you forced to run at an NHRA track?

[KyTj]

No, I think the closest is IHRA. But, I would also like check some our the rides I've seen here, if their closer.:D Mokan is a little far for me.

[Toymaker]

Any recommendations on drag link material and steering arm lengths, I'm using an F-1 steering box.

[moparsled]

7/8" DOM is a popular hot rod choice- it taps out easily to fit 11/16" Ford tie rod ends and is plenty strong.

steering arm lengths will be determined by your steering degrees of travel and by your desired final ratio. Trigonometry stuff that I'm not good at.

[Joe Hamby]

when I was building mine, I used a 2x4 in place of a drag link to determin the right length and then, you can order any length that you need from Speedway. Thats the easy way. When I order anything from Speedway, if it is before about ten AM it will be on my front porch by nine the next morning. Good luck with your build. Joe

[ThingyM]

I found that if your steering arm is about 1" longer than your pitman arm. it works pretty darn good. Also keep the drag link as level as possible, It cuts down on the bump steer. JMO.

[sgtlethargic]

Would a quick ratio box be needed for a small steering wheel? Is everyone pretty much steering with one hand?

[Joe Hamby]

That one hand thing happens alot when you are grabing gears. I use an aluminum corvair steering gear box. You can control some of the steering speed with the length of the steering arms.

[REJ]

I am also running an aluminum Corvair box and it works well.
As far as the one handed steering, I probably only use two hands when staging and coming off the track at the end. Between shifting and stopping( hand brake), I do not have a lot of time to put both hands on the wheel.
As a lot of this comes naturally, it is hard to tell if I'm steering with both hands going down the track.
If the car is set up right, it will almost go straight down the track by itself, unless something out of the ordinary happens.
Robert

[ScottV]

That one hand thing happens alot when you are grabing gears.

And imitating Wild Willie Borsch ...

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h268/VETRAN_883/borsch.jpg

[ThingyM]

I made a center steer out of a VW bug box. It works smooth and easy..In fact, It's almost like power steering......

[sgtlethargic]

I made a center steer out of a VW bug box. It works smooth and easy..In fact, It's almost like power steering......

Does that mean it's mounted near the front axle? Pictures would be good.

I've got an email sent on a somewhat older sand dragster being parted out that has a small steering box near the front axle. The thing is, it's centered and the driver is on the left. How could I make that work?

... Buying that part is out.

[64 DODGE 440]

Does that mean it's mounted near the front axle? Pictures would be good.

I've got an email sent on a somewhat older sand dragster being parted out that has a small steering box near the front axle. The thing is, it's centered and the driver is on the left. How could I make that work?

U-joints and a long shaft. You can make it as complicated as you want. Thingy extended the pitman shaft on his box...I believe he has pictures on his build thread.

[sgtlethargic]

...I believe he has pictures on his build thread.

I checked both build threads (and I'm stuck with dial-up :mad:) and most of the pictures looked like this >>>

[Old6rodder]

Sorry,

Village Photos shut down their free accounts that I'd used to post Dick's pictures. I'm now with Flick'r but all the old posting pictures are gone.


The steering in center steer cars is most often "cowl" style. Think slingshot rails, butterfly steering wheels, extended pitman (sector) shafts, long drag links.

We run a very quick box (1 1/2 turns) common to slingshots. This set-up allows the minimum hand movement needed to keep the car straight but takes quite a bit of arm to turn. Starting over I'd go with a slower box.

Butterfly wheels are however, a bloody nuisance for turning the wheels very far. As in going around a corner, navigating through the pits, getting to the line, exiting the strip, etc.

So we use (and recommend) a round steering wheel for exactly those reasons. They can be found in any size and actually are more period correct as well. Weren't many butterfly wheels in '50. :rolleyes:

[bobw]

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh179/rwstillwater/2009_0301trk0004.jpg
Around a mid-30's Chevy truck box. I cut the splined portion off the pitman arm and welded a heavy wall tube to it. Large enough l.D. to get a socket on the pitman nut. Then made a new pitman arm.
After two outings I ditched the butterfly wheel and went to a small round wheel. Much better. Next, I'll slow the steering down a bit by shortening the pitman arm or lengthening the steering arm on the spindle.
There are better steering boxes than the one I used. Used it cuz I had it.

[sgtlethargic]

Sorry,

Village Photos shut down their free accounts that I'd used to post Dick's pictures. I'm now with Flick'r but all the old posting pictures are gone.


The steering in center steer cars is most often "cowl" style. Think slingshot rails, butterfly steering wheels, extended pitman (sector) shafts, long drag links.

We run a very quick box (1 1/2 turns) common to slingshots. This set-up allows the minimum hand movement needed to keep the car straight but takes quite a bit of arm to turn. Starting over I'd go with a slower box.

Butterfly wheels are however, a bloody nuisance for turning the wheels very far. As in going around a corner, navigating through the pits, getting to the line, exiting the strip, etc.

So we use (and recommend) a round steering wheel for exactly those reasons. They can be found in any size and actually are more period correct as well. Weren't many butterfly wheels in '50. :rolleyes:

No apology needed.

No offense, but I'm not a fan of cowl steering. I got a 60's Mustang box for cheap. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

I'd like to find (cheap is the deciding factor) or make a vintage airplane steering (control) wheel. What kind of steering ratio would you recommend for something like this?

[Old6rodder]

No sweat, I'm not offendable. :D
Cowl steering is the cheap & easy way out of the design problem, its drawbacks accepted and dealt with by the user.

Aircraft wheels have like characteristics to butterflys, ie. not round. For those I'd go with a fairly quick ratio also.

A quick box isn't as bad for a front engine car as it is for a middie, you have much better visual reference and less tendency to over correct.
Heck, it's been working for slingshots for rather awhile.

A few of'em have used shaft steering, the main hurdle being getting around the engine in a short distance. I don't know how NoHotRodsAllowed'd react these days but I recall seeing an occasional chain & sprocket "side-step" set-up back when. And sprocket selection'd give you nearly any ratio you could want, easily changeable to boot.
As I recall, these were used with rack & pinion set-ups typically, but there's no reason a box couldn't be set up that way.

I don't think torsional flex on an HA/GR length shaft'd be a problen at all.

Yet another option combining a box and a drag link is Tom's Rapid Rabbit answer of a vertical column (bus style) set-up. Rather like several altereds of the '60s & '70s.

This's the best shot I have of his installation .......

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4541319129_90792f0f99.jpg

[64 DODGE 440]

No apology needed.

No offense, but I'm not a fan of cowl steering. I got a 60's Mustang box for cheap. I'm not sure what I'm going to do.

I'd like to find (cheap is the deciding factor) or make a vintage airplane steering (control) wheel. What kind of steering ratio would you recommend for something like this?

Good luck on the aircraft wheel.......they tend to be very pricey if you can find them. We just went with a large diameter, (17") round wheel...as Old6rodder's picture shows, the steering wheel shaft is vertical and along with the seating, offset to the left approximately six and a quarter inches, give or take a gnat's ass. The large diameter wheel helps provide leverage to offset the quick steering box.

[sgtlethargic]

Good luck on the aircraft wheel.......they tend to be very pricey if you can find them. We just went with a large diameter, (17") round wheel...as Old6rodder's picture shows, the steering wheel shaft is vertical and along with the seating, offset to the left approximately six and a quarter inches, give or take a gnat's ass. The large diameter wheel helps provide leverage to offset the quick steering box.

There was a cool one in the HAMB classifieds for $75 shipped, but the guy hasn't logged on since AUG 09, and someone else has dibs.

The bus style was my first option, but my seating position might not work well with that.

[64 DODGE 440]

There was a cool one in the HAMB classifieds for $75 shipped, but the guy hasn't logged on since AUG 09, and someone else has dibs.

The bus style was my first option, but my seating position might not work well with that.

It can still be done...check out how they did it in the Marcellus & Borsch AA/FA.
http://www.mysterion.net/AAFA/wingedexpress.shtml
The technology isn't modern and they used old parts.

[sgtlethargic]

It can still be done...check out how they did it in the Marcellus & Borsch AA/FA.
http://www.mysterion.net/AAFA/wingedexpress.shtml
The technology isn't modern and they used old parts.

Maybe I'll get a close look at it at Dragfest?

What's up with the link to "human skull sales" on the site? I'm not opening that link.

[Old6rodder]

I wouldn't do it either, my security program won't even open the main site for me. Warnings galore, looks to be corrupted.

[Papa Tom]

i am useing a 72 samuri box very small and light

[sgtlethargic]

i am useing a 72 samuri box very small and light

A Jimny or you mistyped the year of Samurai?

[OBFB HA/GR]

Like wise I use a Suzuki Jimny box , small , light , no master spline on the drop arm , easy to match up steering column splines.

[sgtlethargic]

I don't think we got Jimnys in the US of A, but we got Samurais in the mid-80's.

[ScottV]

I don't think we got Jimnys in the US of A, but we got Samurais in the mid-80's.
In the US/Canada the earlier (ie:72) Jimny was called the Brute, the later was the Samurai

[Drewfus]

In the US/Canada the earlier (ie:72) Jimny was called the Brute, the later was the Samurai

Out here they are called LJ50 & LJ80, they look like this...

http://media.photobucket.com/image/lj80%20suzuki/504_matt/P080609_1545.jpg


hard to see, but the box is mounted down and off the front cage hoop

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/DrewfusDesigns/HAGR/030507051.jpg

[OBFB HA/GR]

Suzuki lj50 box

[64 DODGE 440]

Suzuki lj50 box

Looks good Nigel.......like all the holes!

[OBFB HA/GR]

I'm busy trying to loose some weight out of the car , all the smart asses say maybe the driver should loose a few pounds

[64 DODGE 440]

I'm busy trying to loose some weight out of the car , all the smart asses say maybe the driver should loose a few pounds

As we get older that applies to most of us.:D

[Papa Tom]

title and bill of sale say 1972 tail gate and emblems say samuri

[Old6rodder]

I'm busy trying to loose some weight out of the car , all the smart asses say maybe the driver should loose a few pounds

That's a funny one, you don't weigh a plate of beans already. :confused:

[robt500]

I've been thinking about building a HA/GR, but I'm not sure about what to do for steering??:D

Also any one around Lexington building one?


Ryan

I didn't see this one before but it's come back towards the top... lot of great ideas and info here, thanks guys. doesn't look like KyTj has made a post here for a while but my HA/GR is based in Lexington. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440083

[64 DODGE 440]

I didn't see this one before but it's come back towards the top... lot of great ideas and info here, thanks guys. doesn't look like KyTj has made a post here for a while but my HA/GR is based in Lexington. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440083

Any progress on your HA/GR? Been slowly getting little things done on ours...hope to have some good progress in the next few weeks.

[butch nassau]

I've used an economical alternative.

It's a mid 60's mopar "bullet" steering box that easily cowl mounts.

It's kin'da big but it looks good.

On ebay type in bullet steering box ...they generally run under $100.00

[64 DODGE 440]

I've used an economical alternative.

It's a mid 60's mopar "bullet" steering box that easily cowl mounts.

It's kin'da big but it looks good.

On ebay type in bullet steering box ...they generally run under $100.00

Hey Butch...I think they work better when you are in the car.:eek:

Sorry...I couldn't resist.:p

Hope you are healing well.

[butch nassau]

Dodge,

Like I said before, "It's very discouraging to spend a bunch of money on safety equipment and then have to lay there and watch it drive away without you."

[64 DODGE 440]

Dodge,

Like I said before, "It's very discouraging to spend a bunch of money on safety equipment and then have to lay there and watch it drive away without you."

Roger that Butch. Back in '89 I tripped over a tie down chain at the airport and blew my elbow apart...caught a lot of flack on that one as I was the "safety officer" in the little flying club we belonged to at the time. I've always believed a sense of humor helped to put up with the curve balls life throws at me.

[KyTj]

I didn't see this one before but it's come back towards the top... lot of great ideas and info here, thanks guys. doesn't look like KyTj has made a post here for a while but my HA/GR is based in Lexington. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=440083

Yea, I have been busy with work and this had to go on the side burner for now. I am almost finished with my other project. Hopefuly I can get back to getting one up and going.

Looks like you have a good start on yours.

[Buzzard II]

I just bought the kit from 2B Banjo, and not only will it work for my altered project, it's a really nice looking, well thought out kit! Thanks 2B!