There is too much Death and Dying on the HAMB

[Mercmad]

Today theres a post about Boyd on his bed of pain. Yesterday ( i think) there is a post from some one talking about some guy dying ...
If I wanted to read shit like this with all these mawkish comments about prayers being sent etc etc i'd have become a fucking priest and registered on the Holy ass post a soppy thread board.
For fucks sake,we all die ,it's nothing unusual. It's all about life and as someone who had been damned close to dying more than once lately it becoming a bit much to see this shit popping up all the time on a Hot Rod site.
It's fucking boring folks,delete them as soon as they appear!

[CURIOUS RASH]

While I don't agree with the approach you took I do agree that it is a bit of a "buzz kill".

I believe some of the posts may be started just to see what drama it would stir. There's a history there.


It's a hard one though. With 40K + members there's going to be a lot of members moving on, needing prayers or whatever. This is a "community", and a much larger one than a lot of it's members actually reside in, and every community has its' OBITS.

So the answer?
A seperate forum? Probably not. We sure don't need another one to mop up after.
Just straight up delete them? Well, most people want to know when a member has passed or could use some help and no Mod wants to be the one that denies such a post.
Delete posts based on merit? Hell no, I won't go. You wouldn't believe the amount of crap we catch when we start basing things on merit.

I suggested once that we simply close the posts. The post is out there then, anyone who wants to do some well wishing can do so by PM. If they want to add them to their prayer list they can do so without posting they have done so. Still, it's the show of support that makes the difference in some cases.

I don't have answers, just more questions. I am a professional question asker.

I say grin and bear it and don't click on them is your best bet.

[Ryan]

I agree. This is a hot rod forum.

I'm going to try to do a better job of keeping that stuff away... but it's tough to just delete them. Takes way more work than that I'm afraid.

[SinisterCustom]

How 'bout an OT section? So all non-hotrod related stuff can get posted there.....
I know it's not always best to add more sub sections....hell, look at other forums....they're a MESS, so many sub-forums, shit gets "lost", but the OT sections seem the most popular, guess people need a place to vent or BS........

[Chris Casny]

An OT section seems redundant, if you want to talk about OT shit, go somewhere else, not the HAMB.
And I agree with Mercmad, anytime some "send or sent prayer" stuff comes up, it should be deleted.
No religion, that was the deal, and as an Atheist I find it pretty uncool to take one mans beliefs over another.

[Roothawg]

Where do you draw the line? Some of the things I find worthless seem to go on for months..........

[chopped]

And I thought I was the only one that thought that way.

[Bookz]

Personally I get pissed with all the religous referances but no more so than with the Boyd is the greatest hot rodder ever, aren't fiberglass bodies great, whose got the best Mustang 11 clip etc type posts.

However as posted above it is a hot rod forum not a traditional hot rod forum plus we must all play nicely all or we'll go to the naughty boys corner.

[Gator]

I don't know the answer, but I did notice a lot of the response on the Boyd thread were guys with very low post counts - several with just 1 post. Not that post count is any indication of 'post quality' but I think a lot of lurkers like to jump in with "rip/godspeed/whatever" on a thread like that.

[Ryan]

Personally I get pissed with all the religous referances but no more so than with the Boyd is the greatest hot rodder ever, aren't fiberglass bodies great, whose got the best Mustang 11 clip etc type posts.

However as posted above it is a hot rod forum not a traditional hot rod forum plus we must all play nicely all or we'll go to the naughty boys corner.

Wrong. This is a traditional hot rod forum.

[HHRdave]

Wrong. This is a traditional hot rod forum.

What can we do to make it a better one? It seems like everytime someone posts a rat rod, street rod build, or OT post, the post stays and you are suppossed to say warm and fuzzy things about their post or keep your mouth shut ....

It seems lately nobody can accept the truth that their build or posted OT subject just may not belong on this forum.

I know it takes time, but I would like to see more people take on the challenge of posting tech articles or finding historical information and photos to be posted.

[j_nigrelli]

it's okay, Mercmad. you're in my prayers, too.

[Bookz]

Wrong. This is a traditional hot rod forum.

It may have been once but what the reality is, is that when a thread about a historic rod gets started or showing really important old photos or even alot of your editorials sinks like a stone meantime a fiberglass body thread has everyone leaping on with 'do what is right for you" warm fuzzies and theres another one running about how great Boyds builds were and so many more examples that it isn't funny its a sign that change has come to this place

Last year we even had the "HAMB Uncured Salt Tour" that consisted of a fiberglass 32, a street rod and a bloody Viper of all things. Sorry Ryan but that isn't even close to being traditional rodding and when people see the likes of that they start thinking thats what the HAMB is about.

You also get "the neighbours hate me because I live like poor white trash" threads and the "aren't I great because I pull smokie wheelies in public places" and the "look at my tatoo threads" and the "skinny tatooed hags hanging all over cars" and general Kustom Kulture bullshit and they will carry on for days.

Traditional stuff is slowly being squeezed by the Street Rodders and the Rat Rod -. Kustom Kulture crowd.

Next week is Tech Week and if it goes to like recent ones there will still be as much OT shit as usual.

I lurked for 2 years before I joined up and have only been a member for a year. During that tme I have gone way back and read stuff from years ago on here. The HAMB has changed during that time. Sure the number of members is going up but that has brought with it a softening of focus and new levels of political correctness at the cost of the original concept. Some years ago I attended a conference on Company Growth and Success. The message basically was that a Company initially starts full of energy and with a slightly edgy take a risk type attitude. As it becomes successful it starts to become more conservative and decisions become more and more based on don't rock any boats. At about the 10 year mark the original traits that made the company initially a exciting and vibrant organisation get replaced by internal politics dulling the place down, public relations controlling decisions on a don't piss anyone off basis and mediocrity starts becoming the norm. Often about this time another hungry energetic company starts up and starts sniping away and the whole process starts over again. The new one starts growing the old one stagnates and or goes into a slide or even often gets taken over or folds up.

Sorry about the rave but despite what you may think I really care about this place as do a lot of people who feel just the way I do.

[4t64rd]

This isn't a post about the conditions in general around here. That's something only WE can change.

The RIPs and prayers/thoughts sent are out of respect for human beings that impart the soul into these chunks of metal.

If you don't know the person, or don't respect them, don't open the thread and don't post.

[Roothawg]

Bookz, you have some valid points but everything comes full circle. When Ryan started the hamb years ago he was a college kid with a rebelious streak. NOw he is married, has a job and a family and probably less time to deal with the hamb as a whole. Your priorities change just as the audience you are targeting.

When "traditional" hot rodding was still somewhat underground, things were different. It was new and exciting and sort of anti-social......now it is mainstream. How do you recreate that excitement 10 years later?

I love this place and I am probably guilty of a slew of O/T posts, but I have made a ton of new friends over the years that otherwise I would have just walked past at shows, drags etc. This place has a pulse and if it becomes too sterile that will kill it faster than the influx of rock-a-silly crowd.

So now that you have pointed out the negative, what would you suggest for improvements?

[HHRdave]

Bookz pretty much said it all. I hate to say this, but I know some serious builders who think the HAMB is a just a big joke...and the threads that don't belong don't help. I have heard people say to me, the HAMB is all about "my dog died yesterday..." or some other OT post.

What is really sad, and has made me question my own place here, is when I have meet some serious well known traditional builders from around the country at shows like (recently GNRS) and I have mentioned the HAMB, they have said things like "oh ...that, I'll have nothing to do with it..."

And others, I have taken pictures of their work and they have said "Don't post that on the HAMB!!"

It really makes me wonder why some of the better talent out there isn't even attracted to the HAMB.

[garagerods]

....If you don't know the person, or don't respect them, don't open the thread and don't post.[/quote]

Some things seem so obvious.

It makes you think a moment when some members of a great board as this, which is built upon the rememberance of the older rodders' actions (you know--traditionalists --which at their time, by the way, wasn't traditional), have seemingly little respect to these folks and the evolution that they and rodding, in general, have taken.

Yep. People die. Sad fact of life.
Yep. Things change, like hot rodding. Another sad fact of life.

Yet, memories could last along time....if they're celebrated.

Seems to me that a community that is gathered to celebrate a block of time in the past would treasure the people, stories, and history of the those that created or enabled that time to exist.

This could easily become a rant...so I will conclude.

I've been around along time and I find that respecting others for their differences while enjoying similar interests always helps me to enjoy our commonality. Regardless of differences.

GOD BLESS!

PS..You may disregard my last wish if you choose. Please respect my desire to extend best wishes to you in the manner that I choose.

[Ryan]

Here's my issue...

Hagen, you've mentioned this "problem" of yours many times. Frankly, we don't cater to the pro. We love to have them and value their presence, but this place has never been about the pro. Further, excuse my concern of legitimacy.

Bookz, I agree with you on some levels... But check your post history. You have been more a part of a problem than a solution. If you want the HAMB to be better, then stop posting off topic drama and start posting productively. You get back what you put in.

-----

Now, this post might seem defensive. It is... Because this place is personal to me. And as the guy that has ran the joint for a decade, I can tell you that it has done nothing but gotten better as a hot rod site. Just in the last month, we've had more important posts than this site had in it's first 5 years of existence. If people don't recognize those posts, maybe it's time for those folks to find another site.

My goal is not to build a place where a guy can find an excuse to "straight talk" or "put someone in their place". My goal is to build a site where people can talk about hot rods and customs. Frankly, I don't care too much about the other stuff.

If you do, this probably isn't the place for you.

If you don't like our direction, move on... Life is too short.

[49 Fleetline]

It's funny how the people complaining are new guys. I've been here with one username or another for ten years and can say with no doubt that the HAMB has never been better. The re-introduction of the jalopy journal has seen to that. I mean, this place is part of my daily life now.

Two things I agree with:

1. No religion. If a member dies and we have that sob post, I think a "god bless" or whatever is appropriate and fine.

2. Get back what you put in. Ryan used to always say that and I always disagreed as I never post. I just take. But you know what? I don't take away like some guys do.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I love this place Ryan. Don't let the wackos get you down. Because, that's what they are.

[2 wheeler]

Um. I just like cars. And I like stuff like:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1836

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1541

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1904

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1784

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1261

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1000

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1248

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=1145

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/?p=840

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=231982

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=232667

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=234436

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229891

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=82304

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=110979

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228509

I'm just sitting here wondering how you guys have enough time to talk about this silly shit when there is so much incredible reading to do. Why even participate? If you aren't into what some of us consider good stuff, why don't you just go out in the garage and do something there?

There is nothing and has never been anything close to the HAMB. It trumps any magazine ever printed.

[Ryan]

HA. That's a good point really... I see it as a 50/50 problem:

50% - Some people just need to shut their pie holes. They need to stop complaining and post productively (rather than negatively) or leave. That's a real issue and one that's hard to grasp.

50% - I need to do a better job of catching posts that cause legitimate complaints and delete them without causing too much collateral damage.

In the end, this has always been a weekness of mine. I'm sick. Seriously. SICK. All I really care to read about is cars. I don't care to read some guy's diatribe about how things aren't right just the same as I don't really care to read about some guy's neighbor that just passed away. To me, that time is wasted when I could be reading or writing some of the pretty darn good content we have here.

It's a choice that we all have to make for ourselves I guess. I chose to read about cars and pretty much ignore everything else. Others like to get involved in other areas... Those "others" will never be satisfied with the hamb.

[CURIOUS RASH]

I find it interesting that most of the people who complain are the same people who have little respect for the rules and want to bust our balls when they are treated like everyone else when they break a rule.

I'll admit I've become a WHOLE lot more "don't rock the boat-ish". And I'll tell you why.

Back in the day when there were 1,000 members it was easy to police this place and those members TOOK THE TIME to figure out the ins and outs of the joint. 10,000 members it got a little harder. It's a numbers game and more rules would get broken. Some members ould understand and take the rules to heart and move on. Others had to really stir it up and waste a bunch of our time. Time I'd rather be spending doing something else. (don't get me wrong, if you need help with ANYTHING I am on it. If you want to bust my balls, you're barking up the wrong tree)

So, now that we have 40K plus members there is an overwhelming number of people who don't care/know/take the time to find out what made this place what it is today.

Know way we can educate them all. They have to do it for themselves.



I'll tell you one thing that has gone way down since I came on board. Members policing members. We don't allow it in the classifieds because it causes too many other problems but a WELL THOUGHT OUT AND WELL WORDED reply to a post on the main board can make or break a new guy who just might have more to teach than we know...

PS: I like the reply about not taking away either. I NEVER thought of it like that.

[Rocky]

The HAMB is simply a reflection of like-minded people. When one of us dies, it affects some of us like-minded people. It's just natural to vent to the other HAMBers.....like a family member dying. If you didn't like or know the deceased, don't open the thread. It's none of your business so, out of respect, don't comment.

[Roothawg]

I wonder how many other boards actually have moderators that interact as much with the members as ours do? Most are very sterile and dry.

[Django]

With the HAMB having and trying to retain the "family" atmosphere amongst all the membership, this kind of stuff is unavoidable. It's not hard to just skip that particular post if you don't know the person or people involved.

Boyd's passing deserves a 30 page thread here, because of the legacy he leaves behind as a hot rodder and what he did for all of hot rodding (good and bad depending on who you ask)... combined with the fact that his success and stylistic achievements, most of which are the antithesis of what the HAMB is about, could very well be viewed as having helped to give birth to the HAMB.

[SinisterCustom]

I'm sick. Seriously. SICK. All I really care to read about is cars.

Word......


My goal is to build a site where people can talk about hot rods and customs. Frankly, I don't care too much about the other stuff.

Don't forget vintage drag racing holmes!:D

[bobw]

The Minnesota Street Rod Association is in it's 41st year. There are over 19,000 members. The Association slogan, printed on the cover of the 76 page monthly newsletter is: Friends+Food+Fun+Fellowship. Notice there's not even a mention of cars! Some of that phenomen could be happening here, since the HAMB is getting bigger and older too. Lots of HAMBers become friends and care about each other beyond their mutual interest in traditional hot rods. Many HAMBers have non-HAMB hobbies, interests, etc and seem to think it is ok to bring them to this site. The HAMB is such a juggernaut that it is probably no longer controllable, not without causing a lot of anger. I enjoy almost everything about this site. The things I dislike are too nitpicky to even bring up.
If all the posts that are not strictly about traditional hot rods were eliminated traffic would be greatly reduced. Maybe that would be good. I wouldn't have to check in 2-3 times a day.

[slammed]

Get a feel for the HAMB, and soon you will find what really turn's your crank. And when you do stumble upon a thread you do not like, keep moving!! Thought control's your mind. Whadd'a ya thinkin' now.....................

[HOTRODPRIMER]

I have a lot of friends on the Hamb,,some are closer than faimly others are like uncle Ned that are a total pain in the ass,,,

Granted,,, I have posted a few off topic threads,,and I have also add my contributions.

I have also lost both my paterns since I have been a member of the Hamb,,and I never started a post about that,,

Everybody handles grief in their on way,,,some reach out for support the only place they know,sadly some seem to have only the Hamb family to turn to,,,I feel sorry for those folks.

With 40,000 plus there are more people to deal with when it comes to emotions and a persons faith,,,religious and non-religious alike are Hambers,,the cars are the glue that binds.

In the case of Ratsters son Josh that passed away a few months ago,,,had it not been posted I would not have known and that would have been a shame because I consider Rich a friend who needed our/my support.

My take is if the post offends you,,,don't read it,,treat it like you would if it was about a new Toyota,,,skip it.

I don't make any rules here so I don't have any control,,,and to be honest,,that's probably a good thing because unstead of some of the post being deleated ,,some of the members would be!:rolleyes:HRP

[Ryan]

I don't make any rules here so I don't have any control,,,and to be honest,,that's probably a good thing because unstead of some of the post being deleated ,,some of the members would be!

Actually, the guy that started this thread has been banned... What for? Off topic drama. That's how it works I guess.

[Six Ball]

When ever something good comes along people have a need to be part of it, even if they don't understand it. The less they have going for them the greater the need to belong. There is so much great stuff here it's worth wading through some crap to get to it. It's even worth having fng under my name and taking stuff from someone who needs to use his time on this board,and what ever is under his name, as proof that he knows something. We will never all agree, even on what is traditional, partly because there are different traditions. If I don't want to read a thread I don't. There's plenty to read, I'll never catch up! Thank you Ryan and all of you others who make this place happen. This board is important. I don't know any of you, but if you die I hope someone will post it here.

[49 Fleetline]

Check out "Bookz" post history. You wouldn't know that he was even into traditional hot rodding by the threads he replies to. All of it is just drama stuff. That's the route of the problem! Replying to the bad stuff when there is so much good to reply to!

Good move on the other moderation decision. That guy was loony, which is fine if you are actually into hot rods, but not so if you are just into running people down.

I'm done now. Excuse the rant. I was just kind of amazed to see someone actually complain about content on here. I've never had it so good.

[Six Ball]

No religion, that was the deal, and as an Atheist I find it pretty uncool to take one mans beliefs over another.

Or one mans disbelief!:eek:

[Catdaddyo]

What is wrong with people posting thier feelings about people passing or venting some of the pain they are in ? maybe they don't have any family and the HAMB is it. If you see its going to be one of "those posting " don't open it, I don't read everything posted..

[CRUE CAB]

Honor and reverence for the recently dead need not be a "buzzkill".
Celebrate ones recent passing, especially if they have lived a very full and succesfull life.
I just went to the wake of my best friends father. An AirForce Lt Col that few many missions in VietNam.
I was expecting a tearfull re union of old friends and family.
It was not. It was a celebration of his life and carreer and family.
I knew him for over 25 years but didnt know all there was to him.
Sad as it was to see him go and knowing the loss to his family, it was the rememberance of many good times that carried the day.

[panhead_pete]

Some of us are learning what is probably appropiate and what is not, even when we have been here a while. Bit like a thread I started re my new tatt - of my Duece Coupe, but after some drama it was closed and I now know to post that sort of thing in the art thread where it more rightfully belonged. This, like all learning is on going process, its just a pity some folks know it all already.

[rodncustom]

Bookz pretty much said it all. I hate to say this, but I know some serious builders who think the HAMB is a just a big joke...and the threads that don't belong don't help. I have heard people say to me, the HAMB is all about "my dog died yesterday..." or some other OT post.

What is really sad, and has made me question my own place here, is when I have meet some serious well known traditional builders from around the country at shows like (recently GNRS) and I have mentioned the HAMB, they have said things like "oh ...that, I'll have nothing to do with it..."

And others, I have taken pictures of their work and they have said "Don't post that on the HAMB!!"

It really makes me wonder why some of the better talent out there isn't even attracted to the HAMB.

It sounds like you're in this for everyone else. If that is the case, maybe this isn't the place for you. If you like what you're looking at, then hang around a while.

[arkiehotrods]

I have twin 23 month old grandsons, James and Joseph. James was born healthy; Joseph was born with VATER syndrome, a really shitty combination of serious, life-threatening birth defects. I posted a thread on the "evil" eBay on April 12, 2006, asking for prayers because the doctors didn't think Joseph was going to live. Since then, almost two years, over 1980 posts have been made on a thread where people all over the US and Canada have prayed for Joseph. Right now Joseph is in intensive care at Arkansas Children's Hospital. He has been at Children's Hospital this time since January 8, and since birth, over 40% of his 23 months. He is in very, very critical condition. Just this evening, on the way home from the hospital, I got a call from a friend on eBay who has made a trip from Birmingham to Little Rock to see my grandsons. It means the world to me that he cares enough to pray, to make a trip to see my grandsons, to give me a call at 9 p.m. on a Friday night to see how we're doing.

I know this is a traditional hotrod forum. I know religion, politics, etc, are not allowed. But I also know that human beings are far, far more important than any thread about rods and customs. Sadly, I don't post about my grandsons here, because there are enough assholes here to make it not worth posting; they'll bitch and complain that its off topic.

Ultimately, this is a site about live human beings who share a common interest, namely traditional rods and customs. They're internet friends, who ask questions, share ideas, and share their love of our lifestyle. But they're also people who bleed real blood, who lose loved ones like fathers & sons, and ask for prayers when someone is hurting and in real need.

The very notion that such topics should be off topic or not allowed demonstrates nothing more than callous apathy, an attitude that says, "To hell with you and your problem, your suffering, your pain; we're all about what wheels to use, what headlights to use, etc."

When Ratstar posted about his twins, I prayed for them. When others have posted about losing loved ones, I prayed. When there were posts about the passing of Boyd and Lil' John, I prayed for their families. What's wrong with that? Are we not allowed to do that because some atheist will get pissed off?

It's your site, Ryan, and you can, obviously, do whatever you want. But in today's world, people need all the love and support they can get, and it will reflect well on the HAMB and the people therein if that love and support is allowed to happen, even if it's "off topic."

[metalshapes]

The very notion that such topics should be off topic or not allowed demonstrates nothing more than callous apathy...

Sorry man, but that is just not true.

As one of the Mods that Closes these Threads now, I can tell you that we struggle with these things.
Because of the terrible situations people suffer with.

And we Close them instead of Deleting them so the other users still can find them and send P/Ms if they want.

I can honestly tell you that Closing these threads is not a pleasant task, but we have agreed to do this because there were just too many of them.

Not everybody will agree that these Threads are being closed.

But we dont do this out of Callousness...

[Ryan]

Sorry man, but that is just not true.

As one of the Mods that Closes these Threads now, I can tell you that we struggle with these things.
Because of the terrible situations people suffer with.

And we Close them instead of Deleting them so the other users still can find them and send P/Ms if they want.

I can honestly tell you that Closing these threads is not a pleasant task, but we have agreed to do this because there were just too many of them.

Not everybody will agree that these Threads are being closed.

But we dont do this out of Callousness...

Closing them is the hardest thing we do. Period.

But we have too...

[scottwaters]

My 2 cents. I google 36 Ford axle, a HAMB article comes up. I google Buick drum, a HAMB article comes up. I have also "lurked" for quite some time. And now I am a FNG. So I post an ad, someone has to be a smartass and post something to "get a spittin' contest" and my "want ad" gets pulled, or someone hijacks the topic...so what? IN THE BIG PICTURE, THE HAMB HAS A TREMENDOUS DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE AND HELPFUL MEMBERSHIP OUT THERE. It's worth putting up with some OT or smartass occasionally because the B-U-L-K of the posts are so beneficial. The ad-mins are right, if it is not a topic for you, CLOSE THE THREAD AND MOVE ON.

[corncobcoupe]

40,000 + members and be realistic about this guys that there is no way everyone is going to be happy with how or why things are done here.

Maybe sharing with you that as Moderators before anything gets closed or deleted we discuss with fellow Moderators if we should, or should not close anything unless it is plain as day obnoxious or off the wall.


Cars are what binds us all together.
Do we like to here someones life has been altered through tragic events etc. ?
No - we as moderators are saddened by it but with 40,000 members everyones life here has daily challenges and it would take over the focus from cars to people.

Does that make us cold hearted ?
To some yes - but 99% are here for the cars - lets be honest.

If everyone shared their daily struggles with life, it would over take the HAMB, plain and simple.

All of you have a choice to open a thread or not -

Make it what you want to make it, but lets just keep in mind that this is a
Old Hot Rod and Custom Car Web site and the focus is sharing cars.

Some times we close or delete threads - that's just the way it is.

Cob
Classifieds Mdoerator

[arkiehotrods]

To Ryan and the moderators who've responded to what I wrote, I appreciate your explaining your viewpoint. It helps me see things from your perspective. Thanks.

[corncobcoupe]

You're welcome and enjoy the HAMB !

Cob
Classifieds Moderator

[4t64rd]

Some times we close or delete threads - that's just the way it is.


A PM would be nice...

[corncobcoupe]

Yep - agreed, but since we do this for fun and donate our time we might miss doing that now and then.

My future apologies extended in case I miss doing that.

Cob
Classifieds Moderator

[Falfa55]

I know Im just a FNG but why dont they just put a obituary section?(simple enough)..I know, Id like to know when a Hot Rod legand dies,and their story if I dont know who they are. Im sure others would too..This site is like a news paper full of good and bad news..
As for people responding to Death posts...I guess Im an atheist too cause I dont beleive in that stuff either.but if a simple respone of god bless you and ill pray for you makes someone feel better then when that shit happens so be it...Its about RESPECT fuck nuts!..Some of you assholes should be embarassed that your pea brains cant understand that.:D
Ah there is nothing like makin'new freinds on the H.A.M.B

Also if its a death post Like My buddy Joe Shmo the farmer died I really dont care to hear about it....40000 members,this would turn into a death post...Keep to Hot Rodders

[corncobcoupe]

Won't be any other new sections unless Ryan decides.

This post kind of flares the emotions and has run it's course of opinions.