Modified-vs-T-Bucket

[hotelsierra]

I'm in the beginning stages of building a modified, as in collecting parts, but I have keep having a nightmare. I keep having this dream that my modified will resemble a T-bucket. These two styles of cars are so similar, but yet completely diferent. What are some major styling factors that can keep my modified from looking like a bucket? I'm thinking winshield, and paint and finishing touches will obviously chage the look, but modifieds seem to sit lower on their chassis'. Is that because mod's are channeled and buckets aren't? All info is appreciated. Thanks. H

[scotth]

Most t-buckets run a short chrome /brass T radiator, run something taller like an A or sectioned later model. (or something original like a tractor or homeade grill shell.) Also stay away from overly exaggerated bigs-n-littles. Stay away from flake paint and big tuck and roll jobs too. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Most buckets have dainty chrome hairpins too, go with split bones or some sort of meatier radius rods.

Sorry if I'm rambling, just got back from the Rev. show and am feeling pretty good...

[yorgatron]

T-bucket;flat grille,no hood. Modified;track nose,hood.at least for me,but what do i know? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[BARNETT]

Funny...inadvertently, this same sorta discussion just came up on the Art Show thread. Seems like maybe the water is a little cloudy on the distinction between the two. Everyone calls my '27 a modified, but I think of it as a bucket...maybe because it's more a bucket of scraps than an actual car. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Jeem]

Both are generally channeled a bit.

T-Bucket;
shortened bed or turtle deck
no hood
exaggerated stance, wheels (offset), tires
goofy vertical steering
mucho chrome
not so subtle paint

Modified;
rear frame and suspension hanging out
generally has a hood (velocity stacks and exhaust cutouts)
tall, skinny rubber, 40's vintage similar era wheels
sprint car steering (usually)
more conservative use of chrome
subtle single colors work best but matching old race car layouts works as well

[BARNETT]

By Jeem's discription...I've got a foot firmly planted in both camps. Fine by me. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Anderson]

T-bucket:

http://www.rodfathers.com/BRANNERS-23-T-BUCKET.gif

Modified:

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/Picture_004.JPG

I thought it was pretty obvious, but I guess it's one of those "either you know or you don't" things.

Maybe this helps?

[mybeatupford]

i realized the difference but hey some people just catch on faster i guess

[Paul]

modifieds were a competition designation,
in my mind I see them roaring across a dry lake in a cloud of dust

T bucket is a street rod term
and were more likely seen at the local drive in or on a drag strip.

I know, no hard mechanical desciption just a couple visual images..

Paul

[Antibilly]

T or Modified? you tell me.... then Ill tell YOU!!

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
T or Modified?

[/ QUOTE ]

same question

[cornfieldrodder]

Modifieds have an earier "flavor" than T-buckets. Even if one uses late styling ques, the difference can easily be seen. The mod will look like an updated early style.
The driver tends to be lower in the car, not the body lower on the frame. In fact, my mod sits on a perimiter frame with 5 inches of section width under the body and a full belly pan as the floor, allowing me to sit with the side of the body at my shoulders. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Most mods, incuding mine, should be designated some othr way because a modified is an old style race car and they are not T-buckets. A pure mod would not have enough room to be comfy for any amount of time, have no late model parts and be a general pain for most folks to use on the street.
Early style buckets cloud the line even more by showing their evelutionary roots from mods. The cartoon wheel combos and flamboyent proportions aren't there. The driver tends to be in a "normal "T" seating position, though. The rake is a bit more radical, also.
When you look at every aspect of them, the differences are obvious, but to put them to words requires asking why. Really, it's a matter of execution, not nessecarily parts.

[slacker_53]

Bucket, and a cool one!!

[LOST ANGEL]

If I may chime in, I've always hated the term T-Bucket. Roadster sounds better. My T is a refugee from the 60's and has all the "T-Bucket" goodies. It is going to be redone in an earlier style, wires, skinnys,lowered lights,etc. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
MIKE http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1174672/2221750/31284931.jpg http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1174672/2221750/35027676.jpg

[Antibilly]

thanks slacker http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[lakesmod]

Look at
www.danielstrohl.com/modified.html (http://www.danielstrohl.com/modified.html)
For me a Modified is a "bear bones"car.Nothing on it that is'ent needed.Nothing behind the body but a gas tank and rear end.
The car sets low and so does the driver.A race car for the street.
Inpractical,yes but I hope a lot of fun.
Fred http://

[cougardan]

I think of a T-bucket as a 1915 to 1923 T with a shortened pickup bed.

I think of the same car with a turtle deck as a roadster.

I don't call later T's... buckets. I'll call them what they are, either roadsters or roadster pickups.

I think of most modifieds as not having any body after the seat(s). And the front sheetmetal ( hood, grille, nose ) doesn't matter. Ford, Dodge, whatever.

I think modifieds are like hotrodded speedsters.

But that's just my take.
Dan

[Morrisman]

[ QUOTE ]
I keep having this dream that my modified will resemble a T-bucket. These two styles of cars are so similar, but yet completely diferent.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please don't take offence at this, but if you don't know the differences between the two, how can you be so sure you are actually building a modified? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Or is it that you have an image in your head, but aren't sure quite how how it'll work in real life?

I built a modified/T when I lived in the PI, but I kept changing my mind during the build, and ended up with basically neither, or both:

[Antibilly]

Looks like you dont know the differance either.....hahahahahahaa http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
how can you be so sure you are actually building a modified?

[/ QUOTE ]

Morrisman, no offence but that looks more like a sand rail then a modified http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I know I'm building a T Bucket or Bucket T or an RPU but I' m in denial,

I want to think of my little car as a Modified ‘cause it sounds cooler. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Paul

[DrJ]

For my head, you're calling apples oranges.

I think you should be asking the difference between a Model T "Modified" (there are Model A modifieds too, ya know?) and a "Fad-T".
I've always thought the term "T Bucket" just defined a Model T two passenger roadster body style, as opposed to a touring/phaeton being a "T Tub" or "Phonebooth T" being a T coupe.

A T Sedan is just called " T sedan" or "parts car"..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

All them T's that resemble the Kookie T or Ivo's T, and the ones on drastic rakes with all the brass head and tail lights mixed up with chrome Jag rear ends, are "Fad T"s, because everyone EXPECTED them to be just a passing fad (NOT)!

They resemble the attitude, (or altitude?) of an Altered class drag car rather than a roundy-round dirt track car.
That's the difference.
A "Modified" has suspension set up with roll center and C/G set up for handling turns, and something resembling dirt track wheels and tires. "Fad-T"s have a setup resembling a drag car, lightweight front wheels and suspension because that's all that's necessary to go in a straight line fast and big enough rear wheels and slicks (or some tires with the visual bulk of slicks) to handle all the power of the "dragster" engine.

[BARNETT]

I think DrJ has hit the nail on the head.

[Morrisman]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like you dont know the differance either.....hahahahahahaa http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The real embarrassing thing is I knew it wasn't anywhere like I wanted it, but I was too obstinate/dumb to stop and say: hey, whatthefuckyabuildingboy" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Only took, like, five weeks to get to drivable, then a month more to get paint on then I sold it. Shoulda kept the motor, tranny, nine inch and wheels, and binned the rest http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[homebrew]

Drj has the right idea.

[SamIyam]

Lost Angel... I think your T rocks.

All it needs is some 12 spokes up front, paint and a lot of chrome.

Let me know if you want to sell the rear rims... they look magnesium.

Sam.

[LOST ANGEL]

Hey Sam, they are real old time no-window Halibrands! But a buddy of mine has already claimed them. They are 5-on-5.5 bolt pattern too.(1941 Ford banjo rear!) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif-MIKE

http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1174672/2221750/61829507.jpg http://pic2.picturetrail.com/VOL39/1174672/2221750/61829501.jpg

[kentucky]

[ QUOTE ]

I know I'm building a T Bucket or Bucket T or an RPU but I' m in denial,

I want to think of my little car as a Modified ‘cause it sounds cooler. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Paul, Call it what you want, I'll just call it bad-ass that is one cool ride! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Dirty2]

T buckets have huge rear tires honda 90 motorcycle tires on front steering that goes straight down and modifieds are cool !!!

[Chopped50Ford]

This modified is great looking. Anyone got a pict of it in the rear? Im curious about the suspension on it.

Just pandering to the idea.

http://www.angelfire.com/retro/ericskars/Picture_004.JPG

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rocky]

A modified will always have a narowed body, in my opinion. I whipped one up using a cowl and doors from a 31 chevy pickup...I narrowed it 6", welded the doors in place and built a body-back section from pieces of a 40 chevy hood for the corners and a 50 chevy door skin to span the distance between the corners...
I suppose you COULD get 2 guys in it but ya better be real good friends. I used a 230 chevy 6 in mine. Another requesite is a narrowed radiator and shell. An early inline or flathead v/8 is almost mandatory.
Forget disc brakes on a modified too....drums only unless you happen onto a pair of Kinmonts.

[Mild Mitch]

The reason Modifieds are call such is they MUST have a narrowed body. Thus; "Modified Lakes Roadster". There's more but this defines. They historiclly began in the '30s as a Class for Dry Lakes Racing. There are/were rules and definitions, and a purpose.

T Buckets are 1950's style carried over.

Both completely diffrent styles of cars.

[cornfieldrodder]

With out a doubt, Mitch's opinion deserves the highest respect. He one of the few guys in the world actually racin' one!! If anyone hasn't seen his car, check out danielstrohl.com. Its on there. The site has a great modified page. Mitch has written a great essay on the subject, there.
What most of us are refering to as mods are certainly NOT fad-ts though. Hopefully, the purists won't be too insulted by the continued use of thier class designation as the term for our little bobtailed roadsters.
After the current project, I want to build a true pre-war modified, with no parts after '41. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Chopped50....here's a shot of the back of the car before we primed it.
Clark

[Nads]

The lines are getting blurry.

Why does my driver's license say my race is white?

What race are my children?

[Pigiron]

I call mine "Traditional".

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
With out a doubt, Mitch's opinion deserves the highest respect. He one of the few guys in the world actually racin' one!! If anyone hasn't seen his car, check out danielstrohl.com. Its on there. The site has a great modified page. Mitch has written a great essay on the subject, there.
What most of us are refering to as mods are certainly NOT fad-ts though. Hopefully, the purists won't be too insulted by the continued use of thier class designation as the term for our little bobtailed roadsters.
...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you always read things people write totally backwards?

Yes Mitch is right on.
There were and are modified classes in the salt flats and dry lakes racing, but there were/are also circle track modifieds, and surely sometimes the same cars doing both.
Since I grew up closer to Ascot track than Mojave, and they televised the races at Ascot when I was a kid, my memories tend to go that direction.

Ok, since the opening question probably still has you puzzled, and I'm the one who said what people are calling"T buckets" are "Fad Ts".
In no way did I refer to Modifieds as Fad Ts, it was the type that AREN'T Modifieds that I referred to as Fad Ts.
Is that clear enough?

If I gotta splain it again you'll never understand... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Paul]

I think I'll have to come up with a new name for mine

Muddle-fied?

Our Pee Yoo?

or like in another post,

Goo Job

Paul

[G V Gordon]

DLSSC,
I think "the Bean" has a lot of similarities to the old Monagram Bob Tail "T" kit. That is a compliment by the way. It is a T bucket but the saving grace is the tires and wheels as well as the no frills attitude. I like it. Hell Roths Tweedy Pie was a bucket and it is one of my favorite cars of all time. There is nothing wrong with a T bucket but most people relate them to the cartoonish '70's style cars instead of the original concept.

[cornfieldrodder]

Drj, I never said you called mods fad-Ts. Please don't read that into my post. I was agreeing with you. Maybe a clarification to that effect was needed there.

[BARNETT]

I think Mild Mitch pretty much cleared up what a modified is. I think "fad-T's" have given buckets a bad rap. Not all buckets have to be fad T's or modifieds. Mine is definitely NOT a fad T and WAAAY to wide to be a mod. Call 'em what yyou want, I guess, the main thing is just to have fun with whatever it is you've built! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[**DONOTDELETE**]

What would y'all call this one ? It sure ain't a T-bucket or a Fad-T..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It doesn't appear to be narrowed either.

[Levis Classic]

This is one of my favorites what you want to call it:

[DrJ]

A lot of cars, hotrods, were and are just street rods, and can be called such.
Before that term got a bad rap from it's too close association with billet and Visa it was and could be ok.

I think Fad T is a term that has been endeared by those who have owned them much longer than a fad could last, much like the originally meant to be demeaning "Yankee" and "rat rod" have been taken on as a name or title of honor by some of their followers. (Well, At least some New Yorkers like Yankees, I guess) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Becoming ever more curious about what is currently allowed in modified race classes I looked thos up on the SCTA site;

VINTAGE CATEGORY

This category is specifically intended for the lovers of antique iron. Although fiberglass and aluminum bodies are allowed, they must be an exact replica of an American production car, except for the Vintage Oval Track class. No modification is allowed to the body proper from the stock firewall location back and the window down, and only limited modifications are allowed to the hood and top.

This category runs the gamut from the basically stock Street Roadster and Vintage Gas Coupe to the slightly modified Highboy Roadsters and Vintage Altered Coupes, to streamlined Modified Roadsters and Vintage Competition Coupes and Vintage Oval Track cars.

Except for the Vintage Oval Track vehicles, only automobile bodies produced by an American manufacturer prior to 1948, at a rate of 500 or more yearly, or exact replicas of such bodies are allowed.* Tops may be chopped, but no other alteration to the contour or size of the body shell is allowed, except as specifically allowed in the class rules.* Wheel wells may be filled, but not deepened.* Rear axles may be narrowed, as long as no part of the tires extend within the body shell.* Turbochargers are not allowed on Vintage class engines competing in Vintage Body classes, see Section II-1.
Return to Top
------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODIFIED ROADSTER - /BFMR, /FMR, /BGMR, /GMR, /V4F



In addition to the general category requirements, cars in this class must have a production roadster body or an exact replica of a roadster body produced between 1923 and 1938.
Minimum Wheelbase Requirements:
Classes AA, A 110 inches
Classes B, C, D 105 inches
Classes E, XXF, XXO 100 inches
Classes F, XF, XO, V4 95 inches
Classes G, H 90 inches

Engine classes allowed are : AA, A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, XF, XO, XXF, XXO & V4.
--------------------------

Is this the modified race class we're talking about?

[Mild Mitch]

First, I'll state that I don't like to strictly catagorize what Hot Rod is what. Semantics discussions never serve us
well here. I'm an opinionated Traditional Hot Rodder. Call your car what you think it is. It's really up to you.

Next, If you need to catoragize your car that fits into the HAMB theme of things, DO call it a HOT ROD! Make sure it is, and if you find a need to explain more, well someone eles probably won't understand anyway. Describe and let the chips fall where they may.

Modifieds aren't solely built with T Roadster bodies. Mine certainly wasn't. They (and mine too) were built with what may have been available. I built mine with the vision of a Racer that may have seen double duty, Lakes and Dirt Tracks.

T's (Fad, bucket, or otherwise) are just that, built from Model T Fords, what else?

Yes, Dr J. Modifeds were raced on DIRT tracks too. Usually against Roadsters. But truely started as a Lakes Class that no longer exsists as it was in the begining. There are modified classes for current Lakes racing, yes, but that's not the issue as I've read Hotel's--- question.

Perhaps I've over-simplified my description. I was trying to NOT CONFUSE things any more than they had been already.
So much for that.

Everyone interested in Modifieds SHOULD read thru Daniels website as stated previuosly in this thread. He has taken the time and effort to compile a really informative site that may help clear up things. You'll find other references there too that will help. It's some great work on his part, I applaud his effort! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

That's it for now, see y'all at B-Ville!

[AV8-Rider]

Wanna build a Modified and wonder how it should look? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

GO BUY DON MONTGOMMERYS BOOKS !!!!!!!!
I assume you are reading Hop Up annualy.

It's all there for you to see.
Good luck

Paul

[Darwin]

One can take a bucket body and do just about anything imaginable with it. If you put on a little bobbed bed, giant Mickeys on the back, skinny tires out front, lotsa chrome on the engine and a tall windshield then it's gonna be viewed by most as being in the "Fab T" category. Lose the bed, expose the rear suspension and tank, run big/little vintage rubber and a vintage or at least a relatively undecorated mill up front then it may not be a "modified" in the strictest sense but it will difinitely have that "style" to it. All these visual cues can be mixed and matched to some degree but there are combos that would alarm most HAMBers eyballs--for instance a minimalist roadster with split bones and bias-plys running a hyper-chromed blown big block, or a T-ish car running Mickeys in the back, wire wheels in front, a tall vertical windshield and a Model A motor up front. Personally I think the modified "style" in its various permutations has a lot of legs left in it and won't look "dated" any time soon. I consider the Green Bean to have a number of "modified" styling cues but no one's going to accuse it of being a direct imitation of a "lakes modified" roadster. I also consider the Green Bean to be exceedingly toothsome and bitchin' in general.

[slacker_53]

[ QUOTE ]
One can take a bucket body and do just about anything imaginable with it. If you put on a little bobbed bed, giant Mickeys on the back, skinny tires out front, lotsa chrome on the engine and a tall windshield then it's gonna be viewed by most as being in the "Fab T" category.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya mean like this one??? I'm running 4 1/2 inch Saltflats and Coker sprints on the front now, and I KNOW what this car is.

-slacker http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif