Bad troubles!

[Jimv]

I got stuck in the rain today with my T & when I went to start it after work it sounded like the Engine Locked up!! It made a loud clunk.I took the cap off& it was soaked in there so I dried it out.It started right up but had a load "Rap" in it I drove it home & checked for a bend Pushrod, etc.It didn't skip or anything when I drove it.I re adjusted the valves & It seemed to quite it down alittle but its still there when your rev it alittle & hold it!!It sound more like a lower end rap or a wrist pin?
I'm at a loss on this one, i've never seen anything like it before.
Can anyone give me a Hint on what it might be?
JimV

[29EHV8]

Its prolly a bent rod.Sorry to tell you this.You hydrauliced the mill when you went to start it.It was full of water......Shiny

[roadstar]

[ QUOTE ]
Its prolly a bent rod.Sorry to tell you this.You hydrauliced the mill when you went to start it.It was full of water......Shiny

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, I have to agree. I have seen it happen more that once.

[MichaelDorman]

I would have to agree that you may have hydro'd the engine. Did you notice large amounts of water blowing out of the pipes once it fired? If so it could be a bent push rod. I would seriously doubt that it would be a bent or tweaked con-rod.

[Unkl Ian]

What sort of air cleaner are you running ?
Most aircleaner lids work pretty good for keeping large amounts of water out of the motor.

[Fat Hack]

It takes very little water to do very BIG damage!

At the Ford dealer I worked at, one mechanic was misting water into the intake of a V6 using a spray bottle with the engine running...his way of cleaning out carbon, he said!!!

Anyway, it went spray spray spray spray spray spray spray BOOM!

(Then all the carbon could fall out the hole in the block! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

The farther it turned over (in degrees of crankshaft rotation) before hitting a dead stop when the water wouldn't compress, the greater the cance for damage. If the cylinder(s) were full, and it barely turned at all, or just "hummed" the starter, you may have not bent anything. But...a good 1/4 turn run at a sudden stop would likely have at least bent a rod!

[Jimv]

It didn't get any water in the carbs, it has bonnet air cleaners, it seems just the cap was wet.the car was parked when it rain, i wasn't driving it so it didn't suck anything water in.
I couldn'tget the rap to stop by disconnecting the plug wires like you do when checking for a bad bearing.
Thinkin maybe the timing chain Fucked up.Its not a plastic spocket on it I' replaced it once.
JimV

[Fat Hack]

Let it sit overnight and then drain your oil.

Watch closely when it first comes out of the drain plug. If any water got in, it will come out FIRST...before the oil does.

(Oil is lighter than water, so the water will settle to the bottom of the pan and it will be the first thing out...followed by the oil).

This will give you some idea of whether or not any water got into the cylinders.

[fab32]

Hack, I don't understand you explanination about the Ford motor that blew up by hydraulicing the cylinders. If the motor was running there wouldn't be an accumulation of water in the cylinders, it would blow out the exhaust with every revolution. I've known people do this all my life and never loose an engine, it's the same thing as a water injection system does only on a continual basis. Now if he DUMPED a slug of water in (like a quart all at once) it might be a different matter, but not misting water in the carb on a running engine. Somehow we're not getting the whole story here.

Frank

[Jimv]

I don't think its a case of getting water in the clyinders as much as it just really had a sever "cross fire" when the cap was wet & i tried to start it!!like 3 0r 4 cyl. fired at once.It was really soaked in there.
jimV

[Fat Hack]

[ QUOTE ]
Hack, I don't understand you explanination about the Ford motor that blew up by hydraulicing the cylinders. If the motor was running there wouldn't be an accumulation of water in the cylinders, it would blow out the exhaust with every revolution. I've known people do this all my life and never loose an engine, it's the same thing as a water injection system does only on a continual basis. Now if he DUMPED a slug of water in (like a quart all at once) it might be a different matter, but not misting water in the carb on a running engine. Somehow we're not getting the whole story here.

Frank

[/ QUOTE ]

He was really going to town with the water...might have had it set on "stream"...I wasn't watching...just heard the loud BANG followed by silence and a very distinct "Oh FUCK!!!"

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

(I wouldn't put it past the guy to have just unscrewed the cap and poured the water in, though!!!)

[Jimv]

Heres another question.Since the rapping is not that severe & say it is a bend rod, would it hurt it to run it out fo the season? It almost seems like if I put a heavier oil in it , it would quite right up, The engine doesn't seem to be running any differant!! No skip or miss!
JimV

[old beet]

I've poured water down a carb many times, while reving the motor. To loosen the carbon. Don't know if it really works, but was done often in the 50s..........OLDBEET

[JOECOOL]

The noise ,if it is a bent rod ,is coming from the crank couterweights hitting the skirt of a piston.It will disentigrate the piston shortly .

[29EHV8]

Like Hack said dump the oil out and take a peak.Put new oil in it and fire it up.
I've seen guys bend rods easily.When you start messing with hydraulicing things shit happens http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.....Shiny

[Jimv]

I,ve pinned it down to #2 cyl.It does have a miss in it & a knock.How will i tell if the rod is bent?
As a last resort i'm going to change the cap, eventhough I don't see anything wrong with it.
jimV

[Tudor]

can you drop the erl pan? take out the plugs and rotate the engine by hand - see if anything is contacting - The wrist pin in the piston would more likely bend than the rod - I know this would suck -but you could also yank the head and pull that piston to check it out

[LeadSledMerc]

Hey Jim, When you say you have a "miss" in #2, what do you mean? Is it steady? When does it happen? Are you sure the noise is coming from the bottom? Have you done a compression check or leakdown before you start pulling heads or oilpans?

Let me know if there is anything I can help you with.
Keith

[Bruce Lancaster]

If you have an aircleaner capable of keeping water out, I don't think it's very likely you hydraulicked the engine and bent a rod. Your problem is likely ignition related and is just crossfire.
Make sure inside of cap is really clean&dry--the WD40 trick really does work in a downpour, by the way. Check minutely for visible tracks between terminals--a dirt or water caused cross fire VERY quickly burns a permanent track in the surface. Look at the top of the coil--you can have a misfire there from tower to primary terminal. What are you using for wire holders? I put chrome ones on a car once, and had a terminal case of crossfire in the first big storm. If you are 100% sure inside of cap is OK, run the car in the dark and see where the light show is. Remember, once it has been run with the problem you likely have permanent burn tracks or even holes burned in wires if the crossfire is there. I think and hope you have a minor problem there and it's way too early to take the engine apart.

[Fat Hack]

T-buckets are kinda like driveable engine stands...easy to work on! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

It shouldn't be a big deal to drop the oil pan and take off the cylinder head on the right (passenger's) side bank to remove the #2 piston and rod assembly. From there, you can determine if the rod, piston or wrist pin has been damaged.

A gasket set will get ya back together once a new rod is secured (if needed)!

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
It didn't get any water in the carbs, it has bonnet air cleaners, it seems just the cap was wet.the car was parked when it rain, i wasn't driving it so it didn't suck anything water in.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well then,you didn't hydraulic the motor.

Unless the cylinder was full of fuel. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Blown Nitro burning motors will hydraulic if there is an ignition problem,
because the fuel volume is so high.

This is not possible on a gasoline motor,
unless there is something else wrong,like a cracked head or blown head gasket.
Did this motor over heat recently ?

[Morrisman]

I reckon tracking inside the distributor is causing a cylinder to fire too early, so it sounds like preignition. That make a tapping noise.

If it ain't that, then drop your oil and see if it full o' aluminium or steel particles.

[metalshapes]

If he bend a rod, the piston would be to low in the bore,right?
Wouldn't it be possible to just do a compression test to see if that cylinder is low on compression?

[flt-blk]

If you have narrowed it downt o #2 you can pull the plug
wire and see if the noise goes away, that will rule out the
ignition system. If it persists it is probably in the
rotating assembly.

Have you ruled out a lifter or valve spring problem??
TZ

[Bruce Lancaster]

with #2 pulled, however, it is possible that #2 spark could still be jumping to a different cylinder--#2 can be misfiring, in other words, because its spark is going elsewhere and causing the noise in a cylinder firing at #2's timing position.

[LeadSledMerc]

Jim, I agree with the other guys, I don't think it's a rod or piston. You had told me you had a cap problem before last time it rained. Time to put a new one on and rule that out. Don't rule the ignition out all together. Put a light on each wire and see whats happening. Misfire can mislead you and make some noises like your describing. Get back to us with what you find. Keith

[Jimv]

I checked the push rods & they aren't bent I ran it without the pushrods in #2 & it didn't rap!!Tomorrow i'm replacing the cap( the one thats on there is fairly new)&The one ignition wire.I tried a differasnt plug today.still misses! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
The rapping isn't as bad as I thought, but the miss is very distinct.
I'm also doing a compresson test on it tomorrow.
I'll keep you posted & thanks for the help so far.
jimV

[Roothawg]

Check the wires, I have bought a lot of cars at auctions with "bad motors", only to throw a set of wires on em and drive em home.

[Fat Hack]

Collapsed lifter(s) in #2 cylinder maybe???

[Jimv]

e rockrs seem to be moving up & down enough.And when i back them off they clack like they should!!
JimV

[moondisc]

Hey Jim,
There is a 303 Olds & Hydro for sale on eGay if you need a engine.
Won't win you any races in Lake George, but it sure would look sweet! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fat Hack]

Bent valve??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif