I'm welding up my fenders!

[Upchuck]

Its pretty hot here right now (gonna get hotter when I put on some welding protection), I forewarned the household not to disturb me and if they hear lots of screaming right on into the house from outside its best to give me a smidge of room and don't ask questions! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'll post some pictures later good,bad, or unfinished! and you guys can critique it before I dive into the other side if you don't mind

[Upchuck]

well I sort of have them in, I am hopefully getting to borrow that wire feed tomorrow to finish it up I was using the stick welder and blowed the odd hole in!

I never used a wire feed before so I might have to spend some time practicing, and if that don't work out I'll braze them holes shut smear some Bondo on and call it done

the pattern and then I cut out a chunk of 81 chevy van metal for the patch http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/bustedford/door007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/bustedford/door008.jpg

tacked in
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/bustedford/door009.jpg

ground down and unfinished
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/bustedford/door011.jpg

[manyolcars]

It is very very wrong to put brass on carbody. Dont do it. Someone will have to cut the brass out later and fix it right.

[flt-blk]

What's wrong with Braze on sheet metal, I have have used it before and didn't notice any problems?

That's pretty good for stick welding sheet metal. You will
like the MIG.
TZ

[mercury Bill]

Just on suggestion make sure your wire feed is a mig. Dont use flux core wire it takes too much heat. Now with that said heres what ya do. Like you did tack around many places then fill between the tacks. I set my mig (a lincoln 115) to its highest setting or D my wire speed at about 4.5 to 5 then start on one of your tacks just make several other tacks just one on top of another for about an inch then use a wet towel to cool the weld right after your done welding be quick about it. just watch your puddle let it start to change color before you do your next weld or tack whatever you want to call it. You should be able to weld about an inch in 15 seconds. on off on off on off. There should never be a need to gas weld ever again not with a good mig and a good stick. I hope this helps. Pm me if you have any questions. Bill

[k-member]

And ya might as well weld up those ugly seams while you're there too. I don't mind the seams on a stocker, but a custom will look better all smooth. Just a thought.

[41ChevyTrucker]

[ QUOTE ]
It is very very wrong to put brass on carbody. Dont do it. Someone will have to cut the brass out later and fix it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hear that! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I am learning the hard way. The PO of my truck brazed patch panels in both the doors and at the back of the cab. Pure pock-marked shit and then they covered it up with 1/4" of bondo. I have to cut it all out.

[Morrisman]

[ QUOTE ]
It is very very wrong to put brass on carbody. Dont do it. Someone will have to cut the brass out later and fix it right.

[/ QUOTE ]

The doors on my '34 Morris Eight were folded over at the edges, tack welded AND brazed, in a couple places on each door. Looks like it was factory done too http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[flt-blk]

Trucker,
Is the problem with the pitted surface or with the Braze
itself reacting?
TZ

[mercury Bill]

Bondo dosnt stick well to brass and in later years you can have trouble. bubbling and other stuff like that.

[Upchuck]

Mercury Bill, the wire feed is was gonna borrow is a Flux core operation! should I just press on with my stick welder? I blew a few holes thru but nothing to big and I am getting hardly any distortion, not 100% penetration but close to 75%

K member I ain't making a custom its gonna keep the stock suspension, just chevyizing the running gear, column, wiring it and anything else it needs and I got on hand http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

if you weld them seams shut how you change out the parts later in you get crumpled up?

I have saved everything I took off it and haven't welded anything to the frame, its bolted if it ain't stock cause I don't know how the kid will want it down the road and its gonna be his for his graduation night hopefully in 4 years http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

does silver solder take more heat than gas welding? maybe I could silver solder them holes shut? I got some of that and it would appreciate its value! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[41ChevyTrucker]

[ QUOTE ]
Trucker,
Is the problem with the pitted surface or with the Braze
itself reacting?
TZ

[/ QUOTE ]

where they brazed is heavily pocked and pitted with gouges. I assumed it was from bad heat control? but I was also told by an old timer that the acid in the braze/brass itself reacts with bondo and paint so its not good to use.

maybe brazing done well is OK if you use lead over it???

[mercury Bill]

I'm suprised your doing so well with a stick. Man, I'm a fairly good welder and theirs no way I would attempt that with a stick. My hats off to ya. I did my first chop with a flux core wire feed it came out ok, did my second with a mig 200% improvment, no kidding. I do my Roll cages and big stuff with a stick. The bad thing with a stick is the water for cooling ZAP....Just go slow. I dont know how much body welding you have to do. The conversion for my mig was about 90 bucks. Cheap when you compair the quality. Bill

[47lincsled]

I'm using a Lincoln intershield welder right now,it does work but not nearly as nice a the gas shield,you have to turn down the power all the way and go slow and keep the metal clean. On the brass coments,the door corners of my 47 Zephyr are brazed from the factory,worked good for them but now I have to try to mig weld over them which can't be done so I'll have to go back and rebraze them afterward.

[John_Kelly]

[ QUOTE ]
Just on suggestion make sure your wire feed is a mig. Dont use flux core wire it takes too much heat. Now with that said heres what ya do. Like you did tack around many places then fill between the tacks. I set my mig (a lincoln 115) to its highest setting or D my wire speed at about 4.5 to 5 then start on one of your tacks just make several other tacks just one on top of another for about an inch then use a wet towel to cool the weld right after your done welding be quick about it. just watch your puddle let it start to change color before you do your next weld or tack whatever you want to call it. You should be able to weld about an inch in 15 seconds. on off on off on off. There should never be a need to gas weld ever again not with a good mig and a good stick. I hope this helps. Pm me if you have any questions. Bill

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Bill, Just a couple of minor disagreements...quenching metal that has been welded can further work-harden the area...mig on its own makes for a fairly work-hardened (for want of a better term) heat affected zone. I never quench sheet steel that has been heated past blue because of this concern. Quenching to shrink when the metal is heated up to blue or less is good practice if shrinking is what you want to do. Welding shrinks on its own, so stretching is what is needed, not shrinking. Gas welding is still the prefered method over mig by most metalshapers who want to do filler free work because the metal stays workable. A gas welded panel moves around more which can be scary until you realize that it is not difficult to stretch the the weld a little, and hammer and dolly to smooth. A mig weld is actually more work because of all the grinding required before you can use a hammer and dolly. Of course if you are going to weld and fill, mig-welding is an efficient method to use. Here is a little more on the subject if you are interested:

http://metalshapers.org/101/jkelly/index.html

John www.ghiaspecialties.com (http://www.ghiaspecialties.com)

[mercury Bill]

John, I totally agree with you on the work hardening aspect, however the jobs which I have done in the recent past have required no hammer and dollying at all my merc on the other hand was a horrible mess. The cooling for me seems to keep everything stright and flat. I just started useing a mig about a year ago and I still have many things to learn.Thank you for your comments and I will keep practicing. Bill

[kustombuilder]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe brazing done well is OK if you use lead over it???



[/ QUOTE ]

i've been told even lead will not stick to brass for very long. i've been woring on Donzie's 50 Chev. it was kept idoors for years before he got it but after sitting outside a couple months it started bubbling up ALL over the place. i ground out about 1/2" of bondo from the rear fenders and found a bunch of pieces patch worked in and you guessed it. they brazed it all in in a "stitch weld" pattern. every place there was a weld there was a corresponding bubble in the paint above. DO NOT BRAZE BODYWORK!!!

[Upchuck]

I ended up taking my time and grinding out all the slag left by the rod after each tack/weld and got it all done with no brazing http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
fenders are in primer now after having to give it some bondo to cover the whole thing, just waiting on locating them rubber pieces at a reasonable price with shipping, customs and the government so I can put them on