It ain't bragging if you can do it!

[Flatdog]

I ran 13.077sec at 98.88mph on Sunday at the Old Time Drags at Englishtown. The car is steel, unchopped, and full-fendered 34 Ford 5 window coupe. With me in it it weighs 3200lb. It's powered by a FLATHEAD. Comments please.

[hotrodladycrusr]

Sounds like fun, bring it to the HAMB drags August 21st so we can all see it run.

HAMB Drags Threads (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=drags)

[296 V8]

Impressive, Id like to hear more.

[Kevin Lee]

Wow, I just want details on the motor and your setup - like what trans, rear end, and tires you are running....because I want to build a flathead that will beat flamedabone's PONCHO http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

When are you going to unbolt the fenders and break into the twelves?

[krupanut]

I wanna see the time slip.
was that 1/8 mile?

[Petejoe]

Wow!
Lets see pics and what did you do to it?

[Tony Bones]

Tell me more on the set-up. Strong tail wind? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Seriously, start ditching weight wherever you can. Get rid of the fenders and anything else that isn't necessary. Get some cheater slicks. You'll go 12's for sure.

[296 V8]

[ QUOTE ]
I wanna see the time slip.
was that 1/8 mile?

[/ QUOTE ]

nice guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif SBC owner?

[Fat Hack]

Ha Ha Ha...with so many small block Chevy powered "Hot Rods" out there barely capable of 14 or 15 second times, it's way cool to hear about a Flatty layin' down some impressive times!!!

Good on ya!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Bruce Lancaster]

"nice guy SBC owner?"
There were two '34 SBC street rods running that day--they were pulling easy 15.2's.
Time for somebody to upgrade...

[Nads]

I think you're lying.

[krupanut]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wanna see the time slip.
was that 1/8 mile?

[/ QUOTE ]

nice guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif SBC owner?

[/ QUOTE ]

You got it http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I'm not saying it's not possible, it's very possible, but I, like the rest, want details. 13's in a fendered coupe with a flathead is very impressive and I'll be the first to say congrats. It takes alot of work to pull that off.

[Jeem]

No, it's still bragging. You can just back it up now. Oh yeah, keep the fenders, they be cool. How 'bout some pics?!

[ray]

[ QUOTE ]
I ran 13.077sec at 98.88mph on Sunday at the Old Time Drags at Englishtown. The car is steel, unchopped, and full-fendered 34 Ford 5 window coupe. With me in it it weighs 3200lb. It's powered by a FLATHEAD. Comments please.

[/ QUOTE ]

a flathead WHAT?

"Comments please." that's the giveaway! what's the catch? we're talkin in the hood of 400 hp to go that fast, no?

[burger]

I've ridden around in DJ's coupe, and I'll let you jokers know that it's a Ford Flathead with lots of RESEARCH and KNOWLEDGE behind it. I'm sure he'll break into the 12's with the fenders still attached.



Ed

[30roadster]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I wanna see the time slip.
was that 1/8 mile?

[/ QUOTE ]

nice guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif SBC owner?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.georgebrainard.com/drag/images/DSC_5182.jpg
It might be a SBC...but i think he knows what he's talking about http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[296 V8]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif<= Right on =>http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Gotgas]

[ QUOTE ]
we're talkin in the hood of 400 hp to go that fast, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. It takes about 250hp to go 99 mph in a 3200lb car, BUT... 13.0 is a little quick for that mph/weight.

[Flatdog]

You guys slay me.Punch in past post, time slip and pitcher from last month at Island dragway.As soon as my kid shows up will post slip.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Yeah--I was just clicking around a couple of calculator sites online and came up with answers around 240 HP, but ET's half a second slower. That's very interesting thought fodder.
I was at the top end of the track taking pictures of the light boards as these passes were made. People who were at the starting line reported zero wheelspin--so traction is part of the story here, getting the engine's whole output to the ground.
Torque is also something that needs to be looked at, because this engine makes almost all of its output BELOW the 5200 point, so basic arithmetic necessarily keeps the HP numbers low.
A stock flathead makes almost its full torque output from idle to 4,000 rpm, meaning that at low R's it is making more torque than an equivalent modern engine (for some values of "equivalent").
This thing is force fed by a GMC 4-71, so my flying guess is that low end torque is kept high by the force feeding despite the cam and that the top end extends a bit beyond the typical hot flathead peak of around 4800. Does any of that make sense??

[Tudor]

its blown right?

fellas - speed vs elapsed time is dependent on the acceleration, so a 13 is possible with a trap speed of 99.

assuming he accelerated like a banshee to 99 and maintained it - its possible -something is just limiting his topend like gears or it being a flathead - it can't rev all that high

[Flatdog]

Here's the video of the run. It's hosted on my home computer with a dynamic IP and slow upload, but should be good for at least a day before it changes. It's encoded in DivX so if you don't have the codec, you'll need it to see the video.
http://68.196.77.110:9997/LastRun13LastClip.avi

I'll get the slip scanned once I get home, but here's the numbers off it:
60': 1.856
330': 5.310
1/8m: 8.261
MPH: 83.21
1000': 10.834
1/4m: 13.077
MPH: 98.88

[Gotgas]

Oh I see, it's kind of a dog on the big end.

No offense, but that's usually what you call cars that only gain 15mph in the last half. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Sounds like a nice ride. I can't see the vid yet since I'm having trouble acquiring the codec. But to get a flattie into the 12s in a full fendered steel car is quite an achievement - and you'll be there soon.

[krupanut]

BTTT

That's good stuff Flatdog!
way to go!

[Nads]

Maybe you're not lying, I'm dumbfounded.

[volken65]

That is F...en BAD-ASS....http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I downloaded your clip and can't stop looking at it... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

You shouldn't have to scan the slip... we should have taken your word for it from the beggining.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I was there, it definitely happened.
What does the 1/8th speed versus the 1/4 speed suggest???
I would think that something needs to happen in gearing? The engine has monstrous torque, and I would think it capable of pulling harder after the eighth. By the way, it happened at the Etown Old Time/Funny Car event in front of several zillion people.

[Hellbilly_Buzzard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
we're talkin in the hood of 400 hp to go that fast, no?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. It takes about 250hp to go 99 mph in a 3200lb car, BUT... 13.0 is a little quick for that mph/weight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, unless he has 5.XX gears hanging out in the back.

[av8]

Excellent, flatdog! Good 60-foot time.

[Flatdog]

I run a 3.25 rear ratio.

[Flatdog]

Nads say your sorry.

[Nads]

What???

A 3.25!!!!

That's even more amazing.

I don't think I wanna race you with my '34 5 window, you MIGHT beat me.

[Nads]

I'm sorry, please don't hit me.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Whatcha runnin' for a tranny &amp; tires?

[Flatdog]

Mike thank, it means a lot coming from you.

[Flat Ernie]

That's great! Out of curiosity, what's the elevation of E-town - I'm assuming near sea-level.

Way cool!!

Chalk up another one for the flatty!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Bruce Lancaster]

Oh yes, here's a site I meant to send you:
http://www.uncommonengineering.com/index.html

[MichaelDorman]

That site is freakin' amazing!

[fatabone]

Here is a pic of Flatdogs car at the Showdown. Thats a nice car and when I build my flathead I'll give you a call.

[beatnik]

Very cool I remember the old flathead post with the picture, cause I was pretty impressed with the #'s then.

Here the pic:

http://members.lycos.co.uk/zackbass1/CarAtTrackAndSlip.jpg

I think everybody would like to hear more about the combo, it's not everyday you see a flathead knocking on the 12 second door, much less in a 3200lb car, it's very impressive.

[Grinder]

Nice job flat dog making us flatheaders proud. Dam I miss e-town and atco sunday ,sunday,sunday.The sound of all the funny cars firing off at once.Or an uncorked flatty. yeah baby!

[oldchevyseller]

i like the fact people http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif still dont believe timed runs unless you show em,that will never end !!!running my old T once i emailed the video to a guy and he analyzed the damn thing and said i was slower than i said ?,even thoough the camera was on the truck and the trap display i just said ,yep i made it all up,

[Smokin Joe]

Great numbers. Broke out on a 13.60 dial in.
Then I look at the other lane. Whoever that was had their shit together. 10.79 on a 10.75 dial in with a .016 reaction time! That's a career best run for most drivers. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[roadstar]

My first thought was...."No you didn't".

Thats kinda of a joke with me and my buddys when they say something they did thats actually kind of cool.

But after reading the whole post and seeing the time slip data, my thoughts turn to "Man thats impresive" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I have never concidered flatheads much for power, But you sir have outdone yourself.

[Rocket88]

Nice car Flatdog! Killer ET too.
I watched a guy up here at last years Old Time drags go a 13.40 in a 35 Ford rag. It also had a 471 on it, backed up by an S10 5 speed.
They guy felt that the car will go faster but he was suck hole shiftin' cause he didn't want hurt the tranny.

[crush1776]

3200 lbs with driver. Hmmmmmm, ease up on the krispy kremes and root beer floats and you may just hit the 12's http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Sorry, I couldn't resist.

[296 V8]

Can we get some more info on the running gear? cid........trans............rear. or is it top secret?
Just wondering what mine will run like.

[ponchobilly]

Way to go, Don! I'd believe you even if you didn't have Bruce as witness. Oh yeah, tell them it's a trailer queen and you don't drive it on the street much http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Yeah, right! I wish I was there to see that. If you were coming to the HAMB Drags with it, we could caravan on out.
Bil

[flamedabone]

That last time slip shows you doing a 1.7 60 foot. Now THAT is what you should be proud of! Most low 13 sec cars go about 2.1- 2.5 60 foot and run between 98 and 105 at the big end.

I would think there would be a line of guys at your door trying to steal your chassis secrets...

Then another line eyeballing your flatty....


Nice work. See you at the HAMB Drags? -Abone.

PS. This be me. I'm driving mine from S. Carolina. Drive yours from Jersey..be a HELL of a race..

[Flatdog]

Yes it did take a lot of work.

[Flatdog]

Ray, a flathead FORD V8.

[Flatdog]

I'm running a C-4 with a Gear Vendor's overdrive unit. I've tried it with and with and without the overdrive, it doesn't affect ETs. I'm running BF Goodrich Drag Radials.

The motor is 3 5/16 x 4 3/8 stroke. It's a Kirby crank. It was build by me and my son and ported by myself and a friend. There's some pictures of the porting and headers on my website, but the motor pictured isn't the one i'm running.
http://www.geocities.com/flatdogracing/index.html

[ray]

i believe ya now, now that theres more info! sounded like you were setting us up, like a aircraft motor so sumpthin!

[350srgr8]

OK, I've sat on the sidelines long enough.I'm the one that's responible for creating this monster. I'm a good friend of DJ's, live near him and also happen to have a couple of vettes, one of which he owned previously(a 71). I also have an 88 which is pretty quick for having only minor mods.
One day last summer in a weak moment( I think it was a 12pack and about 3 margaritas) I told DJ that no matter what he did to that car with no valve covers that he couldn't catch my 88.What a mistake!!!! The bet was on. We each put up 100.00,which is still under the blotter in the shop.Since then he has managed to get that damned thing down to 13 flat and he's not finished.He's a man on a mission, and I'm afraid not only am I going to lose $100 but I'm going to have to concede that you can't overlook flatheads.
I still can't help wondering what would happen if that thing had a sbc.in it. (only kidding DJ)
GO MAN GO

[Hot Rod To Hell]

That IS a very impressive timeslip for a Flatty, BUT , just imagine how good she'd run if you put the same amount of dough into a SBC! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Flatdog]

Why? any dork can do that.

[cleatus]

Good lord, can you imagine what his 1/8 mile time would be if he DID have gears in it?

Flatdog, Do you have some sort of trick tranny or is the motor built purely for tourque or something? I mean what's the catch? with 3.25's it seems like it SHOULD just keep on building at a similar rat past the 1/2 way point.

Not being nagative or anything like that - I mean Well Done - , just trying to understand your setup / how it was done.

[Flatdog]

Cleat.I dont think you need a lot of gear with a motor with a flat tork cruve.Also like the 3.25 gear with OD,dont want to throw a rod getting to track.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
Why? any dork can do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know... I'm that dork that just wants to go fast!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Bruce Lancaster]

"it seems like it SHOULD just keep on building at a similar rat past the 1/2 way point."
I'd sure like to see that happen...
My thoughts on this: Car has absolutely fantastc torque. Car is obviously accelerating like bat out of hell for the 1/8. Car is crossing line well above 5,000 from what Flatdog said at the track about the rev limiter. Is there a gearing problem right after the 1/8th? I really think this thing has quite a bit more in it.

[Gotgas]

A thought...

I wonder if it's hurting for fuel. I've never owned a car that gained less than 22mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4, and that car had 5/16" lines. When I swapped them for 3/8", it gained 3mph in the quarter with no other changes, and NONE in the eighth.

Maybe the fuel system was adequate for a n/a flattie, but I can easily see the 4-71 putting an excessive demand on it. I have no idea what your fuel system looks like, but I sure hope it isn't a stock 60 yr old mechanical fuel pump. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

That thing should be going mid 12s with that 1/8 mph/ET. Good luck to you man, and good job.

[Flatdog]

Gas,other people have said the same thing about fuel line size,but looking at it in black and white in front of me seems to means more .Will check it out.

[Flat Rod]

WOW, Flatdog is my hero. I'm wondering what it would do without forced induction.

[Flatdog]

15.0

[Bruce Lancaster]

I've got the pictures of the car at the top end with timing lights showing your times--they are in my car so I'll dropemoff next time I'm out towards Denville. Bruce

[wingnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
A thought...

I wonder if it's hurting for fuel. I've never owned a car that gained less than 22mph from the 1/8th to the 1/4, and that car had 5/16" lines. When I swapped them for 3/8", it gained 3mph in the quarter with no other changes, and NONE in the eighth.

Maybe the fuel system was adequate for a n/a flattie, but I can easily see the 4-71 putting an excessive demand on it. I have no idea what your fuel system looks like, but I sure hope it isn't a stock 60 yr old mechanical fuel pump. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

That thing should be going mid 12s with that 1/8 mph/ET. Good luck to you man, and good job.

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts exactly...!

Went to larger lines and had the same type improvements...!

Good Job...!

Mark

[Flatdog]

Had 5/18 fuel line on.I put 3/8line and filter,ran at difference stip (Island) lot of wheelspin bad 60 ft times .Also put mufflers back on picked up 1 mph.Compareing apples to orgraneres.Waiting for cooler weather, need a 12 second and a 100mph run, so close but so far.Thanks.

[Kilroy]

[ QUOTE ]
I've tried it with and with and without the overdrive, it doesn't affect ETs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that with the GV O/D off the car or just not engaged? My worry about those things it that they would hog too much HP to spin? I'd like to hear which method you used to get my head around it.

You think maybe you need a wide ratio 4spd auto?

[Flatdog]

Kilroy,I ponder it a lot.I generaly run 1st 2nd then 2od through traps with 3.25 rear gear.When running with 4.11 rear years ago I pulled od unit out of car and ran car with straigh c4 trans, it ran the same.The od unit would help a peakie camed chevy but does not seem to help a flat tork curve flathead.Also rear gear does not seem to matter much ,have run with 325 350 389 411 .Yes I am a nut case.If I had to do it again I would proubly rig up a auto od trans not sure what would clear X in frame 200 4r ? toyota?With od on in 3rt have 250 rear on highway now, I like that.

[QQMOON]

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for cooler weather, need a 12 second and a 100mph run, so close but so far.Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good on YA Now that i would like to see

JR

[Flatdog]

Update!

I got a few runs in with the car at Island Dragway today, here's what I got:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/zackbass/img026.jpg
The temperature was about 50deg.

[born2late]

Good show. Gotta love the cool weather for making HP!!!

[Bruce Lancaster]

That reaction time is OK too...

[Elmo Rodge]

Congratulations Flatdog. Heck of a run. Wayno

[wingnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
Update!

I got a few runs in with the car at Island Dragway today, here's what I got:
http://members.lycos.co.uk/zackbass/img026.jpg
The temperature was about 50deg.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're the one in the Left lane..., "Congratulations"... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!!

I'm really impressed with your performance man...!

Good show...!

Mark

[57JoeFoMoPar]

Congratulations, now I know never to pick a fight with your car. Your 60' times are rediculous, that 1.7XX is something to be real proud of. Last time I ran my car I hit the traps at 90 mph but couldn't break a 16.0.

[krupanut]

Excellent!

You are my new hero!

[jambottle]

putting this back up for the flathead guys who may have missed it.(one of my favorite posts)

[jangleguy]

Thanks for putting this back up so I could see it. Great to see that story unfold...I drove my buddys car at the salt with a 4-71 on a flatty, and was impressed with the torque!
We were chasing a 146 mph record, but could only go 144 - doh! Good news was that 146 record is held by the same car...

[SLAMIT]

My grandpa had a 1950 ford convert that he ran in 1957. I saw a timeslip from Kingdon drag strip in Stockton CA that said he went 14.00 at 99mph. Full race flatty in that car. The stories he has abot it are awesome. But for a heavy ass car with a flatty the numbers are impresive. He sold the car in 58 cause a guy with a 56 chevy w/ 283 fuelie started kickin ass. So he bought a 57 convert and went cruisin.

SLAMIT

[JimSibley]

Flatdog is a badass!!! But being as how I am poor, I gotta go with the sbc price to power thing. Here is my 3000lb. car with 3.73s and a sbc. It ran 12.90 until i got taken out at a stop lite. By the way I built it the whole car $2500.00. But if I had the money I would be right there with a flathead too.

[JimSibley]

Here is a pic after the stop lite disaster

[GassersGarage]

Oh man, that things quick off the line.