Bad bolt list [Archive]

El Caballo

07-21-2004, 04:47 PM

This is what the government won't buy, so they have to be bad... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Damn, I have it in .jpg but it is too large to load and I don't know how to resize. I will email to anyone who wants it.

Mutt

07-21-2004, 04:49 PM

Send it to me and I'll resize it...

Mutt

Mutt

07-21-2004, 08:08 PM

Bad bolt list...

El Caballo

07-21-2004, 08:16 PM

Sometimes people actually care....

thanks Mutt.

Hackerbilt

07-21-2004, 10:32 PM

Those bastards...
Thats serious shit to be screwing around with...could end up on ANYTHING not just cars!!!
Makes you wonder about amusement park rides don't it?

Offering a soft bolt with hardened bolt markings should be treated as attempted murder IMHO.
They're marked because your life depends on them being strong enough to do the job.

Bill

metalshapes

07-22-2004, 12:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Offering a soft bolt with hardened bolt markings should be treated as attempted murder

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...
These people dont give a shit about the consequences...

Unkl Ian

07-22-2004, 12:35 AM

No risk is too great,especially if someone else is taking it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Charging extra for mediocre crap.
It just boils down to GREED.

Rocky

07-22-2004, 12:55 AM

It's prolly just my imagination LC but it appears almost all, if not all of those bolts are made in Japan! What a coincidence.

Digger_Dave

07-22-2004, 01:00 AM

I'm NOT trying to be a "smart ass", BUT can I trust ARP marked hardware??

There was a rumour floating around in this part of country that SOMEONE was making "knock off" ARP marked hardware.

williebill

07-22-2004, 01:06 AM

Thanks for passing this on.I've probably got this shit all over my car.Don't think there's anywhere around here to buy grade 5 or 8 bolts except hardware/big box stores.Ever notice how the lids of the bolt boxes say something like " contents may be from the USA,China,Japan,Taiwan,etc.,etc".Whichever 3rd world country was cheaper this week.Bet those boxes haven't had a US made bolt in them in years.

Crease

07-22-2004, 01:13 AM

supplier that I deal with at work tried to pass off an A317 (makes grade 2 look kick ass) bolt for a grade 8. If your using grade 8, there's probably a reason. Little stuff like bolts 25% of spec. strength can really hurt somebody. I've learned there is a need to inspect fasteners carefully. The distributors often have morons filling their orders.

Thanks for posting the list.

enjenjo

07-22-2004, 02:39 AM

It's actually worse than that. These counterfeit bolts are made from Boron steel, instead of chromemoly steel. In casual tests, they test good, but they will break in use. we got a batch of counterfeit bolts some time back, and using an inpact wrench, you could pop the heads off these bolts just by running them tight, never appoaching the specifed torque.

FWIW, almost all bolts are made offshore now, along with most nails and screws too.

FoMoCo_MoFo

07-22-2004, 02:51 AM

trust me, I used to work Quality Control for a Japanese company. You wouldnt belive the shit the suppliers would try and pass off...not just nuts and bolts but forged and billet pieces that's the scary shit...

metalshapes

07-22-2004, 03:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]

FWIW, almost all bolts are made offshore now, along with most nails and screws too.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess progress was made...
Is this mostly a problem with the Japanese , or is that just a coincidence?

Flattiesteve

07-22-2004, 05:18 AM

Are these counterfeit bolts made in China or somewhere cos I ve worked in a Japanese manufacturing plant and theyre pretty anal about quality - then again theres always a bad apple..

Bruce Lancaster

07-22-2004, 11:03 AM

Anyone messing with those parts of a car that can kill you should run out and buy Carrol Smith's (team director for Shelby long ago) book titled something like "Nuts, bolts, and fasteners". Complete essays on every sort and grade of fasteners, including many I never knew existed and many odd problem-solver ones.
His essay on counterfit bolts is terrifying--they have made there way onto the space shuttle and throughout the aircraft industry. You'll be very nervous next time you get on a plane after reading this...
by the way, he says to buy your metric stuff from Toyota to take advantage of their quality control, and gives lots of tips on figuring out aircraft hardware nomenclature. He doesn't think much of grade 8, claims it borders on brittleness, and suggests aircraft stuff for your grade 8 needs.
Book has lots of sources and OEM recommendations.

07-22-2004, 11:42 AM

I'll second Bruce's recommendation on the Carrol Smith book.

[ QUOTE ]
suggests aircraft stuff for your grade 8 needs

[/ QUOTE ]

Aircraft bolts can be tough to use in some instances.
That due to their requirement for the right length bolt for a particular job.
That's why the very short threads on aircraft bolts.
The thinking is that long threads don't fit well inside a bracket or whatever and the FAA requires a bolt that's just about a perfect fit.
It also means you can't take a die and spin it down the bolt to add threads.
That seriously compromises the strength of the bolt.

I try to buy good bolts for the car projects, but it makes you sad to see a good old name like Dorman selling off-shore bolts that to my eyes are questionable in quality....

Morrisman

07-22-2004, 11:53 AM

If I have a bolt in a high stress situation on my car I tend to go as big as I can, so that even a cheese quality bolt will stand up to the load. There's no prizes for using the smallest bolt you can get away with, unless you're racing for money.

Grade 8 bolts, which many people see as the holy grail of ultimate bolts, are considered by many to be too brittle to use in everyday car situations, especially suspension fittings.

If in doubt, go bigger. Better 300% too strong than 3% too weak. Can you imagine how you'd feel if your car fell apart and wiped out your best buddy, or your family? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Digger_Dave

07-22-2004, 12:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW, almost all bolts are made offshore now, along with most nails and screws too.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does that INCLUDE ARP too?
I have a new engine full of ARP studs, bolts and nuts; and now I'm a little worried!

enjenjo

07-22-2004, 02:07 PM

ARP makes all their bolts in the USA.

TooMany2count

07-22-2004, 03:29 PM

where's the link on this, i would love to see it....joe

SamIyam

07-22-2004, 03:47 PM

The "hollow triangle" one is the one that will get you... OSH sells bolts with a triangle that is solid, which is the one that should not be confused with the hollow triangle.
Sam.

Digger_Dave

07-23-2004, 12:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
ARP makes all their bolts in the USA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wheew, now I can relax. I bought all the ARP products from a dealer I know; and he showed me invoices direct from ARP today.
Thanks for setting my mind at ease.

disastron13

07-23-2004, 01:03 AM

The EAA magazine has had stories on this subject, good photos on recognising "restamped" and other types of counterfeit bolts.
Also read about a company, I think in Fla. busted with the whole production setpup for restamping bolt heads, and a long paper trail selling them to airlines.
The big airlines are really freaked about this subject.
You want your rod to be "racecar quality", right?

born2late

07-23-2004, 01:49 PM

I tried printing the list and I can't read it--kinda fuzzy. Can anyone clear it up?

Mutt

07-23-2004, 03:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I tried printing the list and I can't read it--kinda fuzzy. Can anyone clear it up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Check your E-mail for a big version...

Mutt

zman

07-23-2004, 06:52 PM

how about a big one over here. I'd appreciate it. Of course now I'll have to check every bolt in the shop.

Mutt

07-23-2004, 06:54 PM

On the Way.....

Mutt

TooMany2count

07-23-2004, 07:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
how about a big one over here. I'd appreciate it. Of course now I'll have to check every bolt in the shop.

[/ QUOTE ]

me too please.....joe

67Imp.Wagon

07-23-2004, 08:08 PM

After looking at that list it looks like they covered about every bolt as being bad.

Where is a good supplier for getting good bolts?

ESnacky6

07-23-2004, 08:32 PM

I'd like a copy too if I could....

jack@truearttattoo.com

Thanks alot..!!! -Snacks....

Mutt

07-23-2004, 08:39 PM

On the way Snacky...

Mutt

ESnacky6

07-23-2004, 08:47 PM

Thanks alot..!!! I appreciate it....

dusty

07-23-2004, 09:26 PM

Mutt,
I know your getting slammed with requests for the bolt list but if you have time, could you burn one this way. We work on emergency vehicles during the day and there are some bolts that in my estimation need to be reliable! Thanks, dusty
gtroxell@kc.rr.com

disastron13

07-23-2004, 09:33 PM

google this:

EH-92-4 DOE

Digger_Dave

07-24-2004, 02:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
google this:

EH-92-4 DOE

[/ QUOTE ]

The site comes up; BUT MAN is there ever a PILE of stuff. There is a reference to a "fastener marking chart", but after over an hour, I can't find it. Can you help narrow down the search?

k9racer

07-24-2004, 02:38 PM

I bought some alum tube that was threaded for rod ends to use as control arms on a open wheel mod round track car. well last week the threads pulled out so I had a friend check the hardness and it was not as labled{T6} it was soft so be careful. I dont trust s%@t any more.

4t64rd

07-26-2004, 03:52 PM

Page 32 of this Book (http://tis.eh.doe.gov/nsps/SCITraininghandbook.pdf)

Also has information on counterfeit lifting equiptment and electrical equipment, so if they don't kill us by the car coming apart at speed, they will drop something on us, or electrocute and burn us. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Have a nice day, and support your offshore suppliers.

traveling boot ho

07-26-2004, 11:08 PM

hey babay,,,
thanks for the book link,,,
i'm gonna print off a bunch of that for work,,,,,

now if they only had a book on how to identify idiotic shop co-workers,,,,for management,,,,

love,,,
miss tbh

four-thirteen

07-26-2004, 11:19 PM

mutt, if you don't mind
thanks, david

Crestliner

07-26-2004, 11:47 PM

Mutt hate to ask, but, hate for it to be my families lives also. So please email lhanold@insightbb.com Thanks

katzenhammer

07-27-2004, 12:24 AM

Mutt thanks for all the help. Um could you send me a copy also?

americangreezer@hotmail.com

Thanks, sorry to bother.

Justin

Mutt

07-27-2004, 12:38 AM

Four-thirteen, Crestliner and Katz - it's on the way. No bother at all.

El Caballo is the one who found it - I just reduced it and posted it for him - he deserves the thanks..

Mutt

55olds88

07-27-2004, 12:55 AM

so the missing thing here is, who is ,making em ?? I bet its not the Japanese but they would be farming out that kinda work to the Chinese or worse(just like the US did to Japan, they are getting to lazy to make small dollar stuff/ too expensive for them to do it).
The other thing is so all imports of some stuff are tested (like here its ceramic mugs etc for lead content in the glaze) what would be so difficult in inspecting random shipments and testing them, hell its not like the customs dept don't know who is importing what......