350 or 700R4

[low springs]

what would be better to run? this car is going to see a lot of mileage. its going into a 54 chevy. since the car is not extremly heavy and with a stock 350 motor. would the 700 be over kill or is there no such thing as over kill? haha

the only thing that discourages me is the cost. i've heard that 700s are costly to rebuild...thanks

[burndup]

I dont know much about them, but people that have 'em love the overdrive.

[Deyomatic]

What are you planning to run for a rear end gear? If it is higher than, say 3.20:1 (meaning a lower number) then I wouldn't even bother with a 700R. I had a 2.73 axle in my old car with a 700R4 and it was USELESS. You had to downshift to go up any kind of grade. BUT the big issue was that when I watched my vacuum gauge, because the RPMs were so low (due to high gearing) if you touched the throttle at all, it would instantly pull 0 inches of vacuum, which means the secondaries and the power valve would open and DUMP gas into the engine. So, I never saw more than 14 MPG anyway.
Because of this, when I use that tranny again, I'm going LOW LOW LOW on my gears. Like 4.60:1 or so.

[low springs]

not really sure of the gears. the rear end that i have is out of a 57 chevy wagon. the wagon had a V8 with a 3 speed overdrive. i was told that it should have 4:11 gears but not exactly sure.

it still has the copper tag on it. if someone can decode it would be great. would it be better to get a Nova or Camaro rear end instead?

[Deyomatic]

Shit, if the car that the rear came out of really had OD, then get the 700R4, without a doubt. Use this site:
http://www.richmondgear.com/101032.html
to calculate how high you want the engine to be spinning at whatever speed. You'll need to figure out your ratio first, but the site is invaluable.

Just an example...
According to it, with the gears I used to have in my '55 Ford (3.89) and the 27" tire diameter, Without OD, I'd be spinning at 3600 RPM at 75MPH. With the .70 OD gear in the 700R4, It would only be spinning 2500 RPM at 75 MPH.

[low springs]

here is a link to ebay. i was the winning bidder. it tells a bit of the history in the description. also it came with a chrome trim stamped overdrive that goes to the dash.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7900583247&category=34 200

[Flat Ernie]

The 200 is smaller, lighter & will handle most mild engines just fine - especially in a relatively light car.

If you're going to be putting a lot of highway miles on the car, I'd OD anything over 3.50 gears. Just an opinion...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Ayers Garage]

Here's my deal...

I have a 54 Chevy. I used a Turbo 200 trans in it. The Turbo 350 was bigger overall and caused things to be too tight under the floorboard because I didn't want to enlargen the trans tunnel.

I run a 2.73 gear Nova rear with the non overdrive Turbo 200 and it get's 18 miles per gallon everytime.

[OldCarPilot]

For one who drives a th350 with a 350 in front of it every day, I say go with the 700-r4! I would put one in in a sec if I could pick one up cheap. And I have the low 2.72 gears that deyomatic was talking about.
He seems to forget that the tranny that he was using was the same one that came with the car. So chevy built it with the overdrive tranny and sold millions of them. The only change he made was pulling the lowly 305 and putting a 350 in.

[OldCarPilot]

Also the rear gearing in a 57 wagon is low. I don't remember the number exactly but the automatics were 3.36:1 and that was the smallest gear. I run a 350/350 combo in my 57 belair and at about 70mph I'm at about 3000 rpm. With one more speed (700-r4) that would probably drop down to about 2200-2500.

[low springs]

i take it that you guys are kinda suggesting the 700. now how much bigger is it to the 350? i might have to cut up the floor board right?

i need to find out those gears first before i do anything else....thanks for the help

[36-3window]

the 700r isn't really any bigger than the th350 , it's just longer. the front halfs of the 700 and 350 are almost identical...and of course the extra length puts the transmission mount farther back too. i've only used one,it was in a `33 ford ,and the modifications to the floor boards wasn't anything unusaual.

i'm not familiar with `54 chevys , put i'd have to guess that if a th350 will fit under the floor boards , a 700 will too ,or it wouldn't be any more work to make fit.. but you will have to modify the trans crossmember

[OldCarPilot]

We put a th350 in a 52 chev and didn't have to modify the floor at all. Like what was said above the 700-r4 isn't bigger around, just longer.

[RF]

Fitting either trans in a '49-54 Chevy isn't a problem. After figuring out your R&P ratio, you'll also want to weigh cost differences...you can get a rebuilt TH350 for under $500, while a 700-R4's gonna run almost three times that. If you go with the overdrive, you'll want to make sure you get a "non-computerized" one (manual TV cable). The weak point of the overdrives is failure due to maladjusted TV cables, and, obviously, higher horsepower engines (weak sun shells, burnt converters, etc.).

I'm putting a 200-4R in my '53 as we speak (type). I'll try and post some pics later.

[Tudor]

It is only 2" or 1 1/2" longer.

I have one and like it. One of the things you want to consider is the convertor is special and a considerable expensive if you want more than stock stall. You said you have a stock motor - so that may not be an issue. I have a TCI 3000 stall with 4th gear lock up. The lock up gives you another 200 to 300 rpm drop. I rigged a switch to the tranny and really only lock it up on the highway. I have 3:73 gears and I cruise 80 at like 2300 rpm. It rocks.

The tranny will automatically unlock when you slow enough to auto downshift which makes my motor bogg - so I have to manually disengage the lock up or pop it into 3rd to kick it off.

The other item to consider is the TV cable. The TV cable has to be adjusted or have the proper bracket to attach to your carb so it has like 1 1/8" of travel from idle to WOT. If the TV cable is not set up proplery, the tranny will not have the correct operating pressures and it will not last long.

It will also shift funny on WOT and normal cruising. It needs to be right or you won't be happy with it.

there is a guy in FLA that knows a lot about them. He will answer questions and has a pretty good price on a new rebuilt 700R4 - call him

http://www.fourthgearinc.com/

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">Tudor,

I have heard of people wiring a relay into the brake switch.

This way, when your converter is locked up and you hit the brakes, the lock-up disengages automatically.

Instead of manually shifting, you could just tap the brakes if it's just a decelleration thing.

Now, has anyone ever dropped a 700 into a 59 Chevy?

It already has a TH350 in it.

RASHY </font>

[Flat Ernie]

You can probably pick up a 200-R4 OD tranny much cheaper than either - no one seems to want 'em &amp; they'll handle a mild SBC no sweat...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[RF]

You can also run a non-lockup converter. I ran a Vette converter (2,800 stall I think) in my truck's 700, and it didn't "hunt" between 3rd and 4th.

[wingnutz]

Contact shifts here on the HAMB for the straight scoop on the 700's and turbo's!

[loudpedal]

Run the TH700r4. I've got one in the Green Grenade and I love it. In fact, I've run one in almost every vehicle I've had. If you build it yourself, you can do it cheap. It's not hard to do, and nothing to be afraid of. If you've never been through an automatic get yourself a book and read it. The most I've ever spent on a TH700r4 overhaul is $450. That includes a rebuilt converter and the core charge! Just shop around for the best price on your parts.

I run the torque converter clutch power wire through a normally closed switch that works off the brake pedal and then to an arming switch on the dash. Just flip the switch when you get on the freeway to lock it up.

I've never been a huge fan of the TH200r4, as I haven't found as many available cores around as the TH700r4. The more cores you can get your hands on, the more spare parts you have to build one cheap!


LP

[loudpedal]

[ QUOTE ]
You can also run a non-lockup converter. I ran a Vette converter (2,800 stall I think) in my truck's 700, and it didn't "hunt" between 3rd and 4th.

[/ QUOTE ]

Corvette converters still have a torque converter clutch. You can prevent 3rd to 4th gear hunting by instaling a valve in valve body that allows you to accelerate in fourth gear. Available at Jegs, Summit, ect...Corvettes have this valve in the valve body from the factory.

LP

[CURIOUS RASH]

[ QUOTE ]
Run the TH700r4. I've got one in the Green Grenade and I love it. In fact, I've run one in almost every vehicle I've had. If you build it yourself, you can do it cheap. It's not hard to do, and nothing to be afraid of. If you've never been through an automatic get yourself a book and read it. The most I've ever spent on a TH700r4 overhaul is $450. That includes a rebuilt converter and the core charge! Just shop around for the best price on your parts.

I run the torque converter clutch power wire through a normally closed switch that works off the brake pedal and then to an arming switch on the dash. Just flip the switch when you get on the freeway to lock it up.

I've never been a huge fan of the TH200r4, as I haven't found as many available cores around as the TH700r4. The more cores you can get your hands on, the more spare parts you have to build one cheap!


LP



[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green">Suppose you could do a quicky diagram and pm it to me or something?

I am wanting to put a 700 in MAMA's 59.

Thinking about a 383 and she's already running 411's.

RASHY </font>

[wingnutz]

Rashy..., Shifts (Dave) has a solution for the lockup converter questions!!!!

PM him and he'll help!

Mark

[wingnutz]

Rashy..., Shifts (Dave) has a solution for the lockup converter questions!!!!

PM him and he'll help!

Mark

[LoungeLife]

Hey Rashy - I've heard the tunnel has to be cut on the 59-60 chev to run a 700 (due to the tunnel narrowing to match the dimensions of the non od trans tailshaft) I'm spooling up to stick a 200 in my 60 which we knows fits from Josh's 60 - mostly because that's what I have parts for.

[TimW]

I am running the 700r4 with 3:56 gears and 29 inch tall tires and highly recommend it. You get such a low first gear that you can boil the tires at any time in low gear, zing them again pretty hard when it shifts to second, and turns the moter about 2300 rpms at 80 mph in overdrive. Makes a stock motor seem like you have two of them! I have a lockup converter with 2000 rpm stall and it is wired to the brake switch to unlock. There a a lot of different wiring kits out there and all are pretty simple. If I had it to do all over again I would use another 700 but would probably go with an even lower first gear just to bring the rpms up a little when its in overdrive. Just my two cents worth.

[Deyomatic]

[ QUOTE ]
For one who drives a th350 with a 350 in front of it every day, I say go with the 700-r4! I would put one in in a sec if I could pick one up cheap. And I have the low 2.72 gears that deyomatic was talking about.
He seems to forget that the tranny that he was using was the same one that came with the car. So chevy built it with the overdrive tranny and sold millions of them. The only change he made was pulling the lowly 305 and putting a 350 in.

[/ QUOTE ]

LowSprings, I'VE had a 700R4 with gears that high (2.73) OLDCARPILOT has not. That .70 OD makes a HUGE RPM difference when you use it. I also owned the car he is talking about, with the 350/350 and I could cruise around on the highway at 90 all day long if I wanted. I once drove about 90 miles in 2nd gear at about 75 MPH, and I didn't realize it until I tried to downshift to slow down at around 30 and it clicked right into 1st (the brake master cylinder was empty for some reason).
If I'm correct, my 700R4 is wired to lock up the converter in OD, so it wouldn't even matter that I had the wrong torque converter in use. Sure GM designed them in that car, but it was a dog with the 305, and a dog with the 350.

[Fat Hack]

Shifts gave me the scoop on GM auto tranny options for my 49 Chevy, and he steered me right with his wisdom...call him and he'll help you out...great guy.

Now, over the past few weeks, I've installed TWO trannys into my 49 Chevy, which should be very similar to your 54. The first trans was a TH-350, the second, and final one is a TH-200 Metric.

With the stock trans crossmember and floor in place, the TH-350 had to be wedged into place, and it was pressed against the tunnel tight! It FIT, but I wouldn't wanna drive it with the trans case mashed into the floor like that!

The TH-200 fits MUCH nicer...still tight in the tunnel, but not burried against it! It requires the use of a TV cable (as does a 700R-4), but it's smaller size made my choice easy!

Further, unless you are offsetting the engine and tranny towards the passenger's side like I did for my car (It's a V6, needed more room on the driver's side for starter/steering arm clearance), you will have to drill new holes in your stock crossmember or install a weld-in drop down mount kit.

Ray sent me the piece that you'd weld in to make a TH-350 swap a little easier. I think I can get away with an unmodified trans crossmember now that I have a TH-200 in the car, so let me know if you need the bracket for your car. I may also have a TH-350 mount laying around for ya.

The smaller 200R-4 overdrive tranny might be a viable option as someone mentioned...had one in a Monte Carlo SS and it worked great...they'll be cheaper by far, too! (vs a 700R-4!).

For a mild driver with a stock or warmed over V8, I'd strongly recommend the TH-200 Metric three speed tranny...I had one in a Malibu with a stout small block and bracket raced it for years...also ran a 79 Monte at the strip with a Metric three speed...no problems, and those cars were heavy. Both got great highway mileage, too!

(See my 305 post in the Tech-O-Matic...the blue 77 Malibu ran a Metric trans!)

[OldCarPilot]

Defenatly talk to shifts about any tranny questions. He'll have the answer!

[Crosley]

Intersting thoughts and comments on the trannys from every one.

[AutoReWire]

Ok Tony... You've dealt with a tranny or two. I'm dying to know your opinion on this.

Mine is... I'd go with a 200-4R and a 3.73 gear.

Al

[low springs]

thanks fellas for all the input. does anybody have a phone # for Shift. i will like to talk to him before i go out and buy anything....thanks

[Deyomatic]

His profile has his website...
http://www.midtowntransmission.com/
The number is....
1-715-835-0128

[reefer]

I`ve just sold my deuce roadster that head a 700 R4 behind a 350.On a recent trip I was following my brother in his `55 Chevy and when we got home he asked what revs I was pulling on the way back.He was doing 80mph @3000rpm all the way on the motorway and I was on his tail doing 1500rpm.The box came from Bowtie Transmissions in Calif.and I can highly recommend them as long as you take the time to set `em up properly.On a trip a few weeks ago, me and my better half went out for lunch on a sunday and gave the Deuce some serious grief on the way home, it hit 130mph and was`nt even trying,even getting the usual speedy type sportcars and stuff out of the way in the fast lane..got into a long curve on the motorway and got the old cold tingles down the arms and decided to backoff.A superb box.On the slide rule we worked out the tyre size, rear axle ratio andc the final drive and it worked out at a theoretical 205 mph.@5000rpm......Don`t treat it as an after thought, get a good box and set it up right, theres no reason not to.

[plan9]

700r4 would be real nice in the chevy, and from the sound of it, wouldnt cost a whole lot to rebuild it to your specs..

ill call tonight, we can probably score a rebuildable core for a good price. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[uncleAud]

heres a post that answers alot of these questions
www.geocities.com/crosley_az/4l80e.htm (http://www.geocities.com/crosley_az/4l80e.htm)

[low springs]

uncleaud, thanks for the link. some very help tips.

Plan9, welcome back. so how was your trip? do you want to go to the Pomona swap this Sunday? call me up.

[reefer]

Try www.700R4.com. (http://www.700R4.com.)

it`ll tell you everything you need to know.

[Chopped50Ford]

lownspring

Check out Bowtie Overdrive in the High Desert. You will get the most bang for the buck...I know the owners and they prices you cant go wrong. A completely built 700r4 trans for $1300 w/ over 30 modifications on the stock model.

Bow-Tie Overdrive
(760) 947-5240 17359 Darwin Ave # C
Hesperia, CA Map

[Crosley]

I deal with a few trannys a year . 500 - 600 of them http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A 200-4r works well when setup right. These trannys need to be held to tight internal clearances to live.

You can add frictions to some clutch packs, dual feed the direct clutch drum for a more crisp shift.

The 3.73 gear is a great gear ratio for most applications with a 200-4r or a 4L60 tranny. Not too much or too little unless you get into a real tall tire which most rods do not.

[CURIOUS RASH]

[ QUOTE ]
I deal with a few trannys a year . 500 - 600 of them http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

A 200-4r works well when setup right. These trannys need to be held to tight internal clearances to live.

You can add frictions to some clutch packs, dual feed the direct clutch drum for a more crisp shift.

The 3.73 gear is a great gear ratio for most applications with a 200-4r or a 4L60 tranny. Not too much or too little unless you get into a real tall tire which most rods do not.

[/ QUOTE ] <font color="green">CROSLEY in DA HOUSE...

I just got a call from Prettyman, he bought a 56 off another one of our friends, Dougy.

Anyway, it has a 200 R-4 in it that they say stays in third gear.

Any ideas as to what to do there?

Sorry to jack the post, I'll start a new thread with this question.

RASHY </font>