HA/GR organization ????

[Ron Golden]

This is the 3rd time I've tried to submit this thread. The first 2 times it said I wasn't logged in. I'm a slow typist so it's quite a chore. If it comes thru 3 times I'm sorry. Ron

Guys,
Weekend before last I had a meeting with the owner (Rob Parks) of the local drag strip (KCIR) here in Kansas City and the organizer (Chris Schneider) of the "Muscle Car Reunion" race series. I gave them a copy of the HA/GR rules and showed them a picture of one of the cars. They were both impressed with what we are trying to do and Chris wanted to know how many cars we could bring to the Muscle Car Reunion races at Gateway Park in St. Louis, May 30-June 1st and KCIR, October 3-5th. He wanted to include our program on his 2008 flyers.

I told him we weren't organized enough at present and couldn't guarantee how many cars could/would show. He suggested we get organized, develop a race program, have everyone join, elect officers and schedule several HA/GR races next year.

Rob Parks is the NHRA Division 5 Director and as such carries a lot of weight in the Midwest. He said as long as our cars met the basic safety rules for cars slower than 9.99 E.T. we wouldn't have any problems. I feel this is the foot-in-the-door we've been needing.

Comments, suggestions, bitches, etc. welcome and desired.

(Now, how do I slow my car down enough to stay legal?) LOL

Ron

[bobw]

If NHRA gives the ok on HA/GR's I think many more will be built. It would mean someone like me located in the frozen north could run one in brackets around here and make a trip or two to your area each season to race with other HA/GR's. Building a car that cannot be run close to home just isn't practical.

[Old6rodder]

Just came through once, I can only imagine the other two eternally adrift in the ether, lost electronic souls. :rolleyes:

Do I read correctly Ron, ten seconds + ?
At first blush that seems a bit expensive a catagory for twelve second cars. I'll have to look it up but I thought that included certified chassis', full cages, arm restraints, full suits, etc. for open cars.

Still, his advice is well taken. If we're to take this "into the light" it'll need a bit of organizing. What we're asking for is a new class, and that won't be addressed in any serious manner until it's presented in a serious manner. The "chicken & egg" aspect of it cited by bobw can only be overcome in that way at that level.

In that we're also spread out rather thinly as yet would it be workable to initiate such an effort via this internet "ether"? That is, could we start up a central car/team registration listing for those interested, with organized communications as a first goal? I know we have something like that here but it isn't being utilized for anything in particular and thus isn't very well attended. Also I admit a significant ignorance of this medium, would this require a dedicated "site" and financing of some sort? Our less formal efforts here in L.A. have so far faded out it seems.

Anyway, it's certainly a hopeful response. Better than the time honored "poke in the eye ...... ".


"(Now, how do I slow my car down enough to stay legal?) LOL"
Just pull a spare engine along on a pallet behind you ......... :D

[GMC BUBBA]

Ron and all,
I would work with what ever you can get together. Just keep the hamb rules in effect .:)

[nexxussian]

I dunno, I have worked as an elected official for a couple of 'sanctioning' organizations, my biggest concern would be for what liability is incurred by the organization and it's officers.

I pose this as I wouldn't want anyone to take on that kind of responsibility unknowingly. I expect you all probably already knew that, but it bears mentioning.


On the point of getting HA/GR more readily accepted by tracks and other sanctioning bodies, I'm all for it. I only have really one track available here, so I would rather run somewhere else, give me an excuse to see the country some more (anybody got any extra parking;)?).

[348chevy]

I would like to see the HA/GR get organized because with that we can communicate upcoming events and participate as a group. As for the legal issues I think that if we don't get to complicated with our organization I wouldn't think we would open ourselves up to any legal issues. I think we need to stick to the rules and not let the people start to make more modern racing equipment allowed. As I understand what was said is we can run in the 10's with the car configuration as it is now. If we are running in the 12's now that leaves us a lot of room for improvement. Also I would think that if we start showing up at a lot of different tracks it will bring more people into the group. The bigger we get as a group the more that tracks will listen to us. Just my 2 cents worth and now I'll go change my Depends.:p Roy

[REJ]

I'm with Bubba.
I think we are organized, but it is over the intrenet. I live too far away to actually help by showing up at a track.
I'm doing what I can to get some more built down here in the south. I believe that as more of us show up at different tracks, the more interest will be shown and the class will grow. The more it grows, the more NHRA tracks will get interested in it.
Not that I care if they ever sanction us as a class, I'd rather they did not. I do not care for all the polictics that will come with it.
I will do anything that I can to help as long as the HA/GR rules are adhered to.
Robert

[Rand Man]

I'm for it. If one NHRA track and official accepts it, that sets precedent, and opens doors. It didn't take long for the SDRA to get organized and set up a race series. Bob just put his mind to it and did it. A big new track is being built in Northwest Arkansas. I'll bet it will be NHRA sanctioned. I'd like to get in with them while the gettin's good.

The most important thing to remember here is that the HAMB and HA/GR is owned by Ryan. We could not do anything like this without his approval.

[Ryan]

The most important thing to remember here is that the HAMB and HA/GR is owned by Ryan. We could not do anything like this without his approval.

True to a point, but that's not the way I look at it... You guys built the cars, you guys make it happen... Therefore, you guys make the big calls. I'll only jump in to squelch any differences.

[Ron Golden]

Thanks for all the positive feedback on this. I think it's the next logical step for us to take. With an organization behind us we'll have more clout, and be accepted at any track we choose to run.

I'll ask Rob Parks to look at our car and give a ruling on how we would fit in at local tracks that come under NHRA rules. I'll try to get a firm commitment on the 10+ ET rule. I'd also like to be able to bracket race the car in addition to the HAMB, HA/GR events.

Ryan, thanks for that. You got this whole concept started, now it's time for the rest of us to see just how far it can go.

Any suggestions on how we should proceed?

Ron

[Godzilla]

Ron,
Thanks for the good news. I think it will really help this deal to gain energy if we could see which rules will apply to the cars...safety equipment wise that is. Zilla.

[bobw]

I read somewhere in the last couple days that NHRA is establishing an 8 race series on the west coast for nostalgia drags. To me, that means they see the value ($$$) is supporting and promoting this type of racing. Now, will they "bend the rules" to accomodate our types of cars? HA/GR and street driven rods with minimal safety equipment? If I showed up at Brainerd with a HA/GR car they would pat me on the head and send me home. As an open car they would insist on a proper roll bar, arm restraints, battery cut off , etc. I had a tube frame fiberglass Fiat with a 406sbc in it. A street driven rod. It would run high 11's and had a full cage and all the other safety equipment I thought NHRA required. They let me run 1/8 mile at a private race put on by Minn. Street Rod Assn. But told me not to come back for a regular program unless I put in a funny car cage, arm restraints, etc. All this was necessary becaue I got in the car through the roof (no doors) They considered it an Altered. I put a Crosley Wagon body on the car and passed tech. because it is now a "door" car and the requirements are different. Two problems we will have with HA/GR cars are (1) they are an "open" car and they will make NHRA want to enforce open car rules and (2) we don't have "critical mass" meaning, there aren't many of them in the country, so why make a special accomodation? Individual track operators might bend the rules if a number of HA/GR cars want to run because of the novelty of it and because they aren't very quick so the liklihood of a catastrophy is small. But, a lone HA/GR car showing up at an NHRA track for their regular weekly program will in my opinion be met with skepticism and probably not be allowed to run. If NHRA should accomodate HA/GR's officially, I'm betting it wil be limited to 12 flat or something around there. I'm writing like I have an HA/GR car, which I don't. But, I will have one 6 months after I'm sure I can run it locally in brackets and Test and Tune. The HA/GR concept is absolutely wonderful. Good luck to us.

[Jim Marlett]

Just a note – I've seen arm restraints mentioned twice. They are cheap and I think you're just plain nuts not to use them in any kind of open bodied car. Flailing your arms on the concrete is hard on them even at 50mph. That roll bar won't help the parts that are outside of it.

Now back to lurking.

[nexxussian]

Just a note – I've seen arm restraints mentioned twice. They are cheap and I think you're just plain nuts not to use them in any kind of open bodied car.

Mine are built into my Simpson fire suit.

[REJ]

Arm restraints are around $30-40 for a pair. They are required in ANY open car that plans on passing NHRA tech or most any other track.
The are a pain in the ass, but I use them.
I have had no problems running on a regular Saturday night program at my local NHRA tracks with my HA/GR. I admit that I am only running 14.50's at 96 mph, but they really do not look at it more than twice on a regular Saturday night bracket race.
We will see what happens with the new motor going in for next year, they may look at it three times then.:D

[Rand Man]

Every team or car owner needs to post photos and specifications of their HA/GR. This includes all current rails and those under construction. If you are serious about building an HA/GR, but have not started, please put together a wish list and a drawing. Skrawls on a napkin are fine. I'll need a team name and your location. I volunteer to gather all the data and prepare a report. That's the first step in any organizational plan.

We can present this report to the NHRA guys in Kansas City. It's a place to start. We've got a customer that's expressed interest. It's time to get ready and make the sale. Please post your stuff here. If you need help, you can e-mail me at compran57@yahoo.com.

[Rand Man]

Anybody have any ideas for a name for this new organization? The first thing that popped into my head was Early Rail Racing Assoiciation. E.R.R.A. We are a bit more era specific than our outlaw brothers.

This name may not be the best. I bet sombody can come up with one better.

[348chevy]

E.R.R.A. sounds good to me. I'll take some pictures of the rail and send them to you as I can't seem to get the hang of posting pictures on this site. One question was raised about not having any other HA/GR's near them. I think if you are in an organization you can be informed about events ahead of time and plan for them. Roy

[Drewfus]

Anybody have any ideas for a name for this new organization? The first thing that popped into my head was Early Rail Racing Assoiciation. E.R.R.A. We are a bit more era specific than our outlaw brothers.


remove the Racing bit.....then you have E.R.A., and that's 'era' specific;) :D

Just as a heads-up as to what's being proposed, and what we've done here in oz to become 'fair-dinkum'....to get our feet in the door within our national governing body...

1. numbers of participating cars - we needed a minimum of 6 per event to justify some reason for the promoters to allow us to play

2. Speed limit - our governing body has given us a 'honeymoon period' for our cars to 'proove themselves' with a temporary limit of 13.5 second et's, which will be reviewed early in the coming year, with the view of it dropping down to a 12.00 (or less), which is plent quick enough for the cars of this style, and more importantly, the intent that it represents.

3. Safety elements - whilst we have road cars that can go quicker with less safety elements, because these are seen as 'purpose built race cars', they need to abide to the existing 'higher level' of safety.

Such items include - single layer fire suit, arm restraints, approoved full face helmet, twin hoop cage, external battery cuttoff, 5 point harness, as well as having the car formally 'tech' inspected/plated, and the driver having a basic ANDRA drivers license.

Now, let me start by saying, these requirements may sound 'more' than what you guys are used to, but, as far as we're concerned, you'd be stupid not to have any of the above as a benchmark (except for the drivers license, which is only a formal requirement due to insurance reasons).

4. Format - we have an expected level of presentation and build quality/workmanship, so, whilst some may disagree with what this may suggest (ie that the builder knows how to build), in the interest of all existing racers/participants, we encourage people to build to a standard, or proven method, as there's too much at risk if one poorly built car falls apart on a track.

The process will take some time, and generally speaking, we found it in our interest to work with our governing body, illustrating our perspective and goals, as opposed to telling them to let us race at their tracks to our agenda.

Ultimately, we now have a formal 'foot in the door' here with the HA/GR class, which allows us to actively participate at any ANDRA sanctioned event (where appropriate), and 'keep the faith' of what these cars represent.

We've gone from having 6 cars, to a current 12 active (and numerous others being built), with cars now in 4 states.

Note: whilst we've had to make a few concessions on these cars from a formal level, the intent of what they represent (we believe) is still as per the HAMB rules, with the traditional gospel being spread at each event.....viva la HAMB.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[CrkInsp]

The SDRA has been mentioned, why not take a look at them ( rules and manner of ops.). They are, as said, an example of what can be done for very litttle $$$ and is working quit well. They might not be true HA/GR, but some of them were the first on the scene under the "original " HA/GR rules. Just a thought.

[Ryan]

the nhra is reading this thread... They are interested in doing something, but I dont think they know just what yet. From what I've been told, they are much more interested in the manually shifted cars. Surprise. Surprise.

[Ron Golden]

While the spirit of "The Bug", and HA/GR rules dictate what our cars look like, NHRA pretty much dictates what rules they have to run under. When The Bug originally ran there weren't many rules and you could run almost anything. Hell, during the 50's we sat right on the edge of the strip on car fenders and there wasn't even a guard rail between us and the race cars.

Arm restraints and double hoop cages make sense. While I don't always agree with NHRA rules, I do like the fact that most of those rules are safety driven. I worry a lot more about my sorry old butt today than I did 50 years ago. In fact I don't think I'd drive The Bug down a drag strip today.

So that being said, I"ll ask Rob Parks to look at our car and see just what NHRA rules we have to meet. Since he's the NHRA Division 5 Director I'm sure his ruling will hold water at any strip. Once we have the ground rules laid we can take steps to get an organization up and running.

See you on the starting line.

Ron

[97]

Just came through once, I can only imagine the other two eternally adrift in the ether, lost electronic souls. :rolleyes:

Do I read correctly Ron, ten seconds + ?
At first blush that seems a bit expensive a catagory for twelve second cars. I'll have to look it up but I thought that included certified chassis', full cages, arm restraints, full suits, etc. for open cars.

Still, his advice is well taken. If we're to take this "into the light" it'll need a bit of organizing. What we're asking for is a new class, and that won't be addressed in any serious manner until it's presented in a serious manner. The "chicken & egg" aspect of it cited by bobw can only be overcome in that way at that level.

In that we're also spread out rather thinly as yet would it be workable to initiate such an effort via this internet "ether"? That is, could we start up a central car/team registration listing for those interested, with organized communications as a first goal? I know we have something like that here but it isn't being utilized for anything in particular and thus isn't very well attended. Also I admit a significant ignorance of this medium, would this require a dedicated "site" and financing of some sort? Our less formal efforts here in L.A. have so far faded out it seems.

Anyway, it's certainly a hopeful response. Better than the time honored "poke in the eye ...... ".


"(Now, how do I slow my car down enough to stay legal?) LOL"
Just pull a spare engine along on a pallet behind you ......... :D

A specific website? Isn't that what http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/index.html is about?
I guess it is up to those involved to supply some "news" for Ryan to publish there.
A registration /list etc, once again Ryan already has that under control at http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/register.html ??

[348chevy]

Number one I don't think we need another web site for an organization, this site will do just fine. I whole heartedly agree with Drewfus that we can work with the NHRA and if we can get them to specifically outline us with a class. That means that we would not be lumped in with funnycars or other sub- ten second cars. It probably will mean we have to add another roll bar but it can be lived with. If Rand man is willing to gather all our cars together here on this site then we are on the road to electing a person to speak to promoters and see if we can run with NHRA blessings at a couple of tracks. If we can then it will make life a lot easier on our buddys in California. I know it can be done, it is just if we have the will.:D Roy

[bobw]

I don't have my NHRA rule book right now (lent it to a friend building a '31 Chev he wants to race occasionally) but, I would be content if NHRA would tell us what we need to qualify for the E.T. Bracket into which a 12 sec. flat open car can run. That way if a lone HA/GR shows up at a dragstrip, it can run with the other cars in that bracket. If 6 HA/GR cars show up somewhere, I'm guessing the track manager would be delighted to have them put on a HA/GR race for the spectators. I think we can meet all (or most) of the rules and still retain the spirit and appearance that HA/GR cars now have. It is primarily the roll bar/cage that needs to be defined by NHRA so we can build to conform. In this scenario a separate class isn't needed since the HA/GR's will be legal for a particular bracket. Then, it's up to the HA/GR racers and the individual track operator to arrange a HA/GR specific elimination, just like the HAMB drags and other races in the Mo, Ark, Okla, Texas area. And, a lone HA/GR in Minnesota can run against all the Camaros and Mustangs in the proper E.T. bracket.

Ron, thanks for spearheading this thing. I want to sell my Fiat body and 292 6cyl engines and build a HA/Gr car and have some fun.

[2b-banjo]

Every team or car owner needs to post photos and specifications of their HA/GR. This includes all current rails and those under construction. If you are serious about building an HA/GR, but have not started, please put together a wish list and a drawing. Skrawls on a napkin are fine. I'll need a team name and your location. I volunteer to gather all the data and prepare a report. That's the first step in any organizational plan.

We can present this report to the NHRA guys in Kansas City. It's a place to start. We've got a customer that's expressed interest. It's time to get ready and make the sale. Please post your stuff here. If you need help, you can e-mail me at compran57@yahoo.com.

We should have some type of format as to what info is to be included, so we all supply the same material. It would appear much more organized???

[Rand Man]

(I think this is the information and format we need right now.)

Team: Speed Merchants
Owners: Randy Compton, Brad Green
Builders: Randy Compton, Kyle Compton, Brad Green
Build Date: Summer 2005
Location: Rogers/Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Chassis: Modified Model A Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1953 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.41 sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 109 mph

Photo:

[97]

We should have some type of format as to what info is to be included, so we all supply the same material. It would appear much more organized???

Guys,

THERE IS ALREADY A REGISTRATION FORM.
(yes I am shouting)

As I said earlier Ryan has all this covered, no disrespect to Randman , but why do we need another website or another register??
Click on the links below to go there.

www.hambdrags.com is another site already built by Ryan especially for Hamb drags.
HA/GR section included

http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/index.html

with rules and records area and space for us to report news and other HA/GR stuff.......just nobody has made use of it yet.
This thread is linked as the forum for HA/GR.


On there is a HA/GR specific section for us to register our cars and or interest/ideas in building one
http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/register.html

Ryan has even gone to the trouble of making a registration form

http://www.hambdrags.com/HaGr/hagrApp.doc

which opens as a word doc which we can fill in and email to him at a supplied address. Check the page for the email , I won't post it here it just make spam fodder for the web bots.

I have said we several times in the above post so I guess I have to out myself.

HA/GRs being built in NZ.

As far as I am aware there are at least two being built , both in Tauranga, and both due to debut at the NZ Nostalgia drags in early April.

[2b-banjo]

Team: 2B-Banjo
Owners: Bob Huberty
Builders:Bob Huberty & Bob Norris
Build Date:Spring 06
Location: Fond du Lac, Wi
Chassis: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1950 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.34sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 108.5 mph

[2b-banjo]

Team: Cowboy Bob
Owners: Bob Norris
Builders:Bob Huberty & Bob Norris
Build Date:Spring 06
Location: Fond du Lac, Wi
Chassis: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1950 Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: 12.87sec.
Best 1/4 mile speed: 102.5 mph

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[2b-banjo]

Team: Flat Jack
Owners: Jack Meyers
Builders:Bob Huberty, Bob Norris & Jack Meyers
Build Date:Fall 07 & Spring 08
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Chassis: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 19?? Ford Flathead V8
Best 1/4 mile time: None
Best 1/4 mile speed: None

[alteredpilot]

I don't have my NHRA rule book right now (lent it to a friend building a '31 Chev he wants to race occasionally) but, I would be content if NHRA would tell us what we need to qualify for the E.T. Bracket into which a 12 sec. flat open car can run.

I think we can meet all (or most) of the rules and still retain the spirit and appearance that HA/GR cars now have. It is primarily the roll bar/cage that needs to be defined by NHRA so we can build to conform. In this scenario a separate class isn't needed since the HA/GR's will be legal for a particular bracket.



not sure what everyone else is up against but here's what MY dealings with NHRA have amounted to...

lets keep in mind that i work for the American Nostalgia Racing Association. we run at famoso raceway in bakersfield (march meet, hot rod reunion = NHRA). we are lobbying to get HA/GRs on the track BUT they (famoso/NHRA) want nothing to do with them AS THEY ARE BEING BUILT.

here's why...

the current HA/GR paradigm does not fit into any of NHRA's current class/Chassis structures. if its center steer, it must be either a dragster (slingshot) or an altered and meet sfi chassis specs as such. well, we all know that they are neither. since there is nothing on paper approved by NHRA that a tech inspector can reference when attempting to approve an HA/GR, its a not run deal.

REMEMBER...
THIS IS A LIABILITY DEAL FOR THE TRACK AND NHRA.
if a guy rolls over in an HA/GR and gets killed it can cause all kinds of woes for the NHRA suits.

there are work-arounds to the hangups...

when we get going on ours, i'm building it with a 'sprung' rear end and 'shocks'....i'll probably get it registered too...make it street legal....single seat modified roadster....hassle? yes. get to run? yes!

[Ron Golden]

I agree that we don't need another website, but by the same token, we don't need to place this organizational burden on Ryan. I'm sure he has enough things to do without being the HA/GR coordinator. We need to keep this at the race team level so the coordinator can respond directly with each team as needed. Of course Ryan needs to be included in the loop so he can oversee the whole thing.

If I may make a suggestion, why don't every team send me a picture (snail mail) of their car with the information suggested by Rand Man at the bottom. A good color printer copy will do. The picture and info can be put on a single standard 8 1/2 x 11 sheet and I'll put them in a nice folder to present to Rob Parks. All you guys from Australia, and cars under construction, need to be included in this presentation as this effects all of us eventually. The more pictures/info we have the bigger the impact will be.

Ron Golden
2015 N.W. 81 Place
Kansas City, Missouri
64151-3743

(816-436-6108)

[Ron Golden]

Addendum:

New Zealand also......sorry guys, brain dead here.

Ron

[GMC BUBBA]

Team: BUBBAS HOT ROD SHOP
Owners: JIM AND SCOTT LINDER
Builders:CULBERTSONS CUSTOMS/BUBBAS HOT ROD SHOP
Build Date:2007
Location: INDIANAPOLIS INDIANA
Chassis: CULBERTSON CHASSIS
Engine: 302 GMC SIX
Best 1/4 mile time: ??
Best 1/4 mile speed: 90 MPH

[Joe Hamby]

Team: Roadrunner #5
Owner: Joe Hamby
Builders: Joe, Loren, Toby, Rick, James
Build Date: 2006 and 2007
Location: Tulsa
Chassis: Home made, new steel
Engine: Slant 6
Best time: 14:25
Best speed: 95 MPH

[Rand Man]

Ron,
I'll print and mail mine and some of the other guys info. I have photos of most all of the running cars.

[Ron Golden]

Thanks Randy.

Ron

[348chevy]

Team- Pattiepie Spl.
Owners Roy and Pat Merritt
Builder of engine- Roy Merritt
Chassis Builder - Mr Mac
Chassis- 2X3 mild steel tubing
Engine 302 GMC
Completion by spring of 2008

Ron I'll send you some pictures this week.

[64 DODGE 440]

Team: Wild Hare Racing
Owners: Tom & Patti Petry
Builders: Tom & Patti Petry
Build Date: In Process, hope for completion in 2008
Location: Montclair, CA
Chassis: Modified Model T Ford/Mild Steel Tubing
Engine: 1934 Dodge Flathead 6
Best 1/4 Mile Time: None Yet
Best 1/4 Mile Speed: None Yet

[REJ]

Team: Nightmare racing
Owners: Robert/Sandy Jones
Builder: Robert Jones
Engine builder: Robert Jones
Chassis: 2 X 3 mild steel tubing
Engine: Modified slant six, 225ci., 1962
Tranny: 3 speed car tranny, 1962
Roll bar: single hoop 1 3/4" 130 DOM mild steel
Best time: 14:40
Speed: 96 mph
The new motor will go in this year, so hopefully; times and speed will change. Times above were stock motor and four speed truck tranny
Location: Valrico, Florida

[REJ]

One more note, I do like the name Early Rail Assocation.
I'm like Drewfus, it stands for era, as in era specific.
Just my .02 worth.
Robert

[Ron Golden]

Guys,
More than 2 weeks have passed since we started discussinng the need for HA/GR organization and I've yet to see any response other than agreement on the concept. At present we have an open door to NHRA and the possibility of acceptance but we need to act soon or the door may be closed in our face.

If we ever hope to have places to run our cars we need to present a professional attitude along with our laid-back 50's look.

By the way, there's going to be a 2 day nostailia race at KCIR May 17 & 18. I guarantee I'll be there with our car.

Let me know what you want me to do.

Ron

[64 DODGE 440]

Guys,
More than 2 weeks have passed since we started discussinng the need for HA/GR organization and I've yet to see any response other than agreement on the concept. At present we have an open door to NHRA and the possibility of acceptance but we need to act soon or the door may be closed in our face.

If we ever hope to have places to run our cars we need to present a professional attitude along with our laid-back 50's look.

By the way, there's going to be a 2 day nostailia race at KCIR May 17 & 18. I guarantee I'll be there with our car.

Let me know what you want me to do.

Ron

Sorry, I've posted what info I can give you, our car is probably a year or more away.

[Joe Hamby]

Hi Ron Can you tell us what we need to do to organize, I think that there is a lot of interest, and with out it the left coast guys may not be able to run there cars in their area. In tulsa the track owner likes these cars, one reason is that we don't bracket race, we only run heads up with no eliminations, everyone runs every round, we usually run six cars in less that four min. We are not in on the track prizes we take care of that ourselfs. This track runs IHRA , if the nhra has any questions they could contact Tulsa Raceway Park. You could mention that some of these teams come with a group, They all pay to get in.

[348chevy]

Ron as you know from my personal e-mails to you I've spent all my money but I will try to get the car together using credit cards to finish with. I think that what ever it takes to get on with the program if an organization is needed then let's see if we can do it via internet. I would hope that you and others are well enough versed in organizational skills to come up with a format which will work. Have you not received a lot of pictures of cars and people who are willing to participate? The people on the left coast should send pictures and info so that NHRA knows that this is a nation wide or for that matter international endeavor. I agree that we need to keep the ball rolling but maybe we just aren't sure how to do that. :confused:Roy

[Rand Man]

I've been busy with work and home improvement projects. I finally mailed the car info and photos to Ron, yesterday. I'll see what I can come up with, on how to form an organization. There may be minor legal or tax issues to consider.

[Ron Golden]

I think the kind of program Joe Hamby outlined, has been working for them and would work for us. We would have our own mini eliminations, completely outside any other program the track happens to be running that day. Pay our way in and use the track for our own deal.

I've been reading the NHRA rulebook and it appears the regional director has some discretion in establishing the rules for his region. With that in mind what do you all think about a; "no quicker than 11.00 E.T." rule for the HA/GR cars? That way we wouldn't have to meet all the same rules that apply to cars running several seconds quicker. If you guys think that would work for us I will meet with Rob Park and propose our program.

As far as the actual organization goes it could be handled here with someone keeping records of where/when/who regarding future races, who won last week, weekly news, etc. Maybe a semi-annual meeting at one of the races we all attend. Have a President, secretary, event director, etc. or maybe just one person to handle it all here on the H.A.M.B. No politics involved, just a bunch of guys kept informed of the future scheduled races, E.T. & MPH records, etc.

Rand Man has taken the time to get a picture and basic info on some of the cars. I'm not sure how many cars he has info/pictures of so I'll wait and see what he's mailed me. The more cars presented to Rob Park the better our chances will be to get our own bracket rules. Come on guys, get with Rand Man and e-mail him a good picture and info on your cars. I'd like to put together a brocure with all this info and take it to Rob and try to sell the HA/GR bracket program.

If we as a group can present a working race program I'm sure we would be invited to all the nostialgia events.

[64 DODGE 440]

What do you all think about a; "no quicker than 11.00 E.T." rule for the HA/GR cars?

It makes a lot of sense to me.......maybe if they realize that these cars aren't running any quicker than many of the street driven cars, we will have a better chance.

Hell, I'll be glad if I'm able to run in the high 12s.

[REJ]

I'll agree on the 11 second rule. I do not think we need to be running any faster than that with the single hoop roll bar and the other safety equipment that we have.
I saw what happened to the one at Mokan and am glad we have the safety stuff that we have.
64 Dodge 440, I'm with you, I hope I can break into the 12's this next year, even if it's a 12.99, I'll be tickelled to death!!

[Ron Golden]

An 11.00 E.T. bracket will make the whole concept easier to sell to the sanctioning group, whether it's IHRA or NHRA, or just an unsanctioned strip. Besides, going fast isn't the primary object of this class. My guess is we're all wanting to have a laid-back good time.

I think I actually enjoyed my 13 second Camaro more than I did the 7 second alcohol dragster I was partners on. Case in point; I've dated Playboy bunnies.........but I didn't marry one.

Now that's not to say I didn't enjoy the ride in the dragster, or the bunny, but like all things....each has it's time and place. For me, now is the time to have fun and grin as often as I can.

Lets make this thing work.

Ron

[Rand Man]

11.99 is more in the range of what these cars can do. The faster you go, the less fun, safe, and affordable they get. That second will make those rollbars look better to the safety man.

[Drewfus]

All you guys from Australia, and cars under construction, need to be included in this presentation as this effects all of us eventually. The more pictures/info we have the bigger the impact will be.

Ron,

I've forwarded to Randman a heap of current photo's of all our 'running' cars (13 off), with a 'word' file detailing each vehicle's particulars(with attached photo to refference).

Let me know if I can assist further.

Cheers,

Drewfus

Note: here in OZ we're currently restricted by our governing body (ANDRA) to a limit of 13.5 ET's, with this to be reviewed early in the new year, with the aim for it to be reduced to 12.00.

[348chevy]

I thought some of the guys have already got in the 11.80's. maybe not. I don't have a clue as to how fast mine will go until I take it to the track. 11.99 would be fine if we can figure out a way to stay there. I think we will lose our appeal if we can't be heads up racers. I for one would like to be allout each time and win or lose by a foot, that is fun racing. I used to race superstock when you had to run bias ply tires and everything was factory but a set of headers. Practically every race was won by a bumper wideth, lots of fun and you drove that same car to work on monday morning.:DRoy P.S. Rand man I'm coming to Rogers on Saturday and maybe we could meet and I could give you some pictures of my car as it is right now.

[Ron Golden]

Drewfus,
Now thats what I've been looking for! Thanks a bunch! I'm sure Randy (Rand Man) will put the pictures with the data and send it on to me.(thanks Randy) I'll have a professional looking brochure made and present it to Rob Park.

Thinking ahead; we could use the same type brochure to present to any racing organization/event we wanted to race with. That could help get us invited to their events.

At this point any E.T. bracket will suffice as long as we can get a foot in the door. Just like Drewfus said, they have a 13.50 E.T. bracket now and a goal of a 12.00 second bracket next year.

Roy, the best I remember someone ran a 11.96 @ 109 mph with a flat motor car. I'm sure with time it will get even quicker.

Good going guys! Thanks for the input and help.

Ron

[Drewfus]

At this point any E.T. bracket will suffice as long as we can get a foot in the door. Just like Drewfus said, they have a 13.50 E.T. bracket now and a goal of a 12.00 second bracket next year.


Ron,

the way we saw it, we could either try to fight the system with their rules, or work with them and encourage the use of ours......sure there are a few concessions that we didn't really want, but at the same time, for what it's worth, we're racing, and having fun, so if it means adding a second hoop, or drawing a line in the sant et wise, then so be it....lets go racing.

Keep chipping away.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[Old6rodder]

Gentlemen,

Sorry to be so tardy getting into this thread but you really wouldn't believe my hours right now, I haven't done fewer than eighty a week since the first of November. I plan to sleep at least two weeks following the parade, just for starters.

I'll try to get Ron our picture and specs this weekend, and I'll send along a better picture after the first.

I'd been expecting the 12 second thing to be broken from the start and was only mildly surprised at how soon it was. For myself, I think the advantages of keeping it all over 11.99 are self evident. Thus my vote for concessions would start at e.t. limits, but mechanical rather than artificial ones.

I also see several ways of doing that, all but one of which are anathema to our stated objectives. That one way would be to mechanically limit all cars in the class in the same manner, such as perhaps going from 6" tires to 5 1/2" or 5" tires, or maybe reverting to open rear ends only (which might also be a valid "bargaining chip" safety feature for sanctioning consideration), or some other such gentlemen's agreement. I'm certain there are other ideas in this vein out there.

Well, that's my $.02 for now, back to my float fanaticism.

[Rand Man]

The two rails that went 11.97 were outlaws. They had pro-tuned double-pumpers and powerglides. I'm sure those guys are good drivers, but I don't think they could have done it by poppin' the clutch and bangin' the stick. Our era specific, vintage everything rules really level the playing field.

[2b-banjo]

I agree with Rand Man the playing field is level and I don't think that a legal ha/gr rail will get into the 11's very soon. I might add that if or when one does get into the 11's, he must add a 2nd roll bar.
I will probably do this just for safety, some of the SDRA cars have 2 bars and these look fine. The cars from down under have them, I don't get why some people buck at this, safety needs to come first.

[Drewfus]

The two rails that went 11.97 were outlaws. They had pro-tuned double-pumpers and powerglides. I'm sure those guys are good drivers, but I don't think they could have done it by poppin' the clutch and bangin' the stick. Our era specific, vintage everything rules really level the playing field.

Completely agree, the existing platform rules are fine, that manual box really does make the racing more 'driver' oriented, and whilst it can be hard on parts, again, the driver can control the carnage by his/her driving style.

Note: For some reason, when discussing with both builders and officials, the issue of the tyres always seems to arrise, to which, we've been promoting the L78 15" tyre, as it has proved consistant, effective, and well suited to this class (remembering that those guys running 11's are using these, so they're working), we don't wish to force people to use them, but we do enthusiastically reccommend them.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[97]

Completely agree, the existing platform rules are fine, that manual box really does make the racing more 'driver' oriented, and whilst it can be hard on parts, again, the driver can control the carnage by his/her driving style.

Note: For some reason, when discussing with both builders and officials, the issue of the tyres always seems to arrise, to which, we've been promoting the L78 15" tyre, as it has proved consistant, effective, and well suited to this class (remembering that those guys running 11's are using these, so they're working), we don't wish to force people to use them, but we do enthusiastically reccommend them.

Cheers,

Drewfus

What brand of tyre you running Drewfus, and what do they cost each in Aussie?? ....... We get shafted here.

[Drewfus]

What brand of tyre you running Drewfus, and what do they cost each in Aussie?? ....... We get shafted here.

L78.

Cost....they retail here for something like $(aussie) 350 each (:eek:), but we talked with Antique tyres who recognised our HAMB alliance and gave us a discount.....plus we bought bulk (something like 8 sets of tyres), so that helped a bit.

For some of us, they're the most expensive parts on our cars.....having said that, I look at them as being as important part of the car, after all, they're the key element putting the power to the ground, so worth the investment.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[97]

L78.

Cost....they retail here for something like $(aussie) 350 each (:eek:), but we talked with Antique tyres who recognised our HAMB alliance and gave us a discount.....plus we bought bulk (something like 8 sets of tyres), so that helped a bit.

For some of us, they're the most expensive parts on our cars.....having said that, I look at them as being as important part of the car, after all, they're the key element putting the power to the ground, so worth the investment.

Cheers,

Drewfus

OK thanks but what was the tyre brand name? Coker / Firestone ???

[nexxussian]

Those crazy Dunlop vintage racin' tires maybe?

[Rand Man]

Speed Merchants and several of the US teams use Coker brand. We bought ours before the discount, but they weren't too expensive. We use the G78 size. They're a bit shorter, but almost the same width.

[97]

Speed Merchants and several of the US teams use Coker brand. We bought ours before the discount, but they weren't too expensive. We use the G78 size. They're a bit shorter, but almost the same width.

Yeah seems like the Aussies get shafted too, $350 Aussie dollars is a lot to pay for a tire which is listed at $112. US dollars BEFORE the Alliance discount.
The black walls are even cheaper at $103.
Cokers NZ agent...in my own home town..wont even answer his phone let alone quote me a price.
Shipping is not that expensive , US $100/cubic meter or less from West coast.
I will do the right thing and join the alliance and ship my own.

[Ron Golden]

Randy (Rand Man),
I got the pictures and info on the HA/GR cars and they are perfect. I posted a "thank you" on here but I must have screwed it up again cause it doesn't seem to be here. Anyway, you did a great job and I certainly appreciate the effort.

Ron

[QQMOON]

Yeah seems like the Aussies get shafted too, $350 Aussie dollars is a lot to pay for a tire which is listed at $112. US dollars BEFORE the Alliance discount.
The black walls are even cheaper at $103.
Cokers NZ agent...in my own home town..wont even answer his phone let alone quote me a price.
Shipping is not that expensive , US $100/cubic meter or less from West coast.
I will do the right thing and join the alliance and ship my own.

97 e-mail Ben at Antique tyres in Victoria and explain to him what yr doing he knows all about the HA/GR Class and im sure he will get the ball rolling for you at the right price

QQ