409 experts?

[Ragtop]

Well I didn't get the 348, had to take the 409 he had instead! Now I'm wondering if I did the right thing. This block is out of a boat and a guy was telling me that boat cranks have some hole drilled in them that makes them weaker. Anyone know about this? I always thought boat motors got the good steel cranks and rods, brass freeze plugs etc. Hope I didn't screw up here!

[JohnnyB327]

My dad and I built and put one of them boat motors in a 62 bubbletop for a friend of his about 2 years ago and it ran just fine and still does. He takes it out to the drags every time they have a hot rod happenin.

[chromedRAT]

if johnny has some experience with a boat 409, this might not be the case, but i know that some boat engines have the water passages partially filled with concrete or some shit to make them run well being constantly cooled with water and all. so far as i know, the boat stuff is supposed to be more balanced and etc.

[Ragtop]

I've never heard of the cement deal, but the guy I'm buying the motor from has run various marinas and fixed boats for years. He's an old friend and I trust him, it's just that I heard this tonight and started wondering if it's something he wouldn't have know about. There's a great motor builder here that has done many of these W motors and I will check with them too, I'appreciate any comments you fellas might have. I'd also like to know what would be a cool cam to run in this engine. I want to build it to run in my '34 3 window on pump gas and it'll have an OD autumatis with a 58 Ford 9" that presently has 411:1 gears in a traction loc carrier. Too much gear for the O/D?

[chromedRAT]

never seen the concrete myself, head about it on here. it'd be interesting to see what heads and compression a boat 409 has, truck-like, i assume. i have also heard that truck 409's are great for blowers because of low compression already.

[Tony]

I havn't heard of the concrete myself. I have read that the truck blocks and marine blocks were the same.
They both had a valve relief cast onto the block, unlike the passenger car blocks.
I also read that because of the extra 'notch' in the block, it has a touch better valve flow for high lift cams, blowers etc..

I started doing some research on them a while ago because i bought a '65 truck 409, but there's still a lot more to learn.
Rat....

[chickenridgerods]

You should be OK using the boat engine as the basis for a hot rod engine. It will essentially be like the truck engines, with the reliefs in the block for the exhaust valves, low-perf heads, low-perf pistons, wimpy cam. If you want a "hot" engine, you'll want to bump up the compression since it'll be a low 7.5-ish:1.

One thing you'll want to check for, however, is to find out if it's a reverse rotation engine. If so, you'll need to convert it over to the standard car rotation.

Check out www.348-409.com (http://www.348-409.com) for some good W-engine resources.

[Tony]

I forgot about the reverse rotation bit...very good point!!

I also remembered that the 409 a friend built for his 62 bel air a couple years ago was a marine block.

VERY stout motor. He's running the high horse heads, a fairly big solid stick, dual carters and 11.1 compression.

The car runs strong!!

Rat...

[Ragtop]

Good point, but I did know about the reverse rotation - this one's OK. I plan to rebuild it and bring it up to about 9:1

[Brad54]

Lamar Walden in Doraville, Georgia his THE MAN when it comes to 409s. He casts aluminum water pumps, intake manifolds, and heads, stroker kits, plus a bunch of other stuff for them (like everything).
The 409 is almost a flathead. The combustion chamber is in the block, not the heads. The trucks do have the notch cast in them, which lowers compression. A truck block is fine, but Lamar likes the car blocks better--he doesn't seem to care about the "exhaust valve unshrouding" that notch provides. Lots of good running truck engines, though. You did the right thing getting the '09.

Lamar Walden Automotive
770-449-0315
He's a really busy guy--if you call him up to BS with him, don't tell him you got his number from me. He ain't cheap, either. But where else you gonna find aluminum heads, a short tunnel ram intake (like the Z-11) and aluminum water pumps?
-Brad

[oldchevyseller]

well a guy in fairmont mn DICK KAST is his name and he is the 409 guy he built mine and has been making a number of items from the power steering bracket to air brackets,plus a long time friend of GRUMPY JENKINS ,they winter out in arizona at arizona power and marine , i even got a under the bench grumpy custom cam right from the man , plus he is an old rodder has a 38 chevy ,look him up

[Ragtop]

This is great info. I appreciate it! My plan is to run the 348 tripower intake I got with it instead of a quad or dual quads, just for the visual impact in a coupe. The guy that I bought it from wanted me to put it in the '60 ElCamino instead of the 34, but I think it would be really neat in the coupe. I realize I'll be forfieting HP but the 3 deuces look so good!

[oldchevyseller]

it will look like this

[oldchevyseller]

[Ragtop]

Yes! I love those valve covers - Offy?

[oldchevyseller]

yep offenhauser

[oldchevyseller]

this is what it looked like from the car. it was a Z-11 wrecked and the guy was building a whole new hotrod, he ordered a crate 502 from GM and changed the whole car, so i got the engine, as far as two 4 's making more horse power at the most it only 10 or so ,plus the guy wanted the 2 fours back so i put the 3 deuce on it,

[chromedRAT]

so that is the W block from a Z-11??? the 427 W block engine??? and this guy got RID of it???????????

[oldchevyseller]

the 409 block,3830814
1963
Including R.P.O. Z-11
3814881
1963
425HP
2-4 bbl's (aluminum)
well i had to pay pretty good for it but ,it is real ,got a grumpy jenkins cam gring in it ,right from his stash above his bench,old oily cardboard tube ,dated august 64 i think ,he said here when you get that far put this cam in it, has the aluminium water pump,and i even got some z-11 wheels ,they have two centers in the rims to handle the torque and latteral pressure ,
The R.P.O. Z-11 optioned Impala was designed for one reason and one reason only... Racing. Cubic inches were climbing fast in '63 and the Z-11 427 Impala was Chevrolet's way of keeping up with Ford, Pontiac, and Chrysler at the track.

The 427 was a modified 409 engine. The stroke was increased, special heads, valves and intake manifold were added. Fuel was supplied by 2-4bbl Carter AFB carburetors. A special cowl induction air cleaner was also used as shown below.

[choprods]

What am I to have for hosepower/ from my'65 truck 409 with single 4 barrell?

[oldchevyseller]

http://www.348-409.com/specs.html from here you can get your numbers and see what you really have

[choprods]

Thanks old chevyseller- looks like 240 horsepower and almost 400 ft lbs tourqe at 2400 RPM's! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[chickenridgerods]

[ QUOTE ]
this is what it looked like from the car. it was a Z-11 wrecked and the guy was building a whole new hotrod, he ordered a crate 502 from GM and changed the whole car, so i got the engine, as far as two 4 's making more horse power at the most it only 10 or so ,plus the guy wanted the 2 fours back so i put the 3 deuce on it,

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to say, but if you put anything other than the Z-11 specific intake on your 409, it wasn't a Z-11 engine. The Z-11 427 W-block had a unique 2-piece intake and raised port heads that aren't interchangeable with the 348 or 409 parts.

Also, the 3x2 intake only works with the 348 and low-horse 409 heads. So, unfortunately, it sounds like you don't even have the desireable high-horse 409 heads. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif Still, I'd take such an engine. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JohnnyB327]

THE CONCRETE IS THE RACE MOTORS!!!! THE BLOCKS CANNOT STAND HEAT AT ALL!!! the racers would pour the concrete into the block to fill up the water passages and the block would strengthen atleast 5 times the original amount.

PLEASE LISTEN TO THAT!

[choprods]

I got a question about the W motors.....I was changing the valve covers on mine today and it has some brownishred stuff brushed on the lock nuts on the rocker arm adjustment,like a hard substance.....what is this and was it done at factory?
My motor is rumored to be a factory built truck longblock with low miles.

[Ragtop]

Good info - I don't have my motor home yet so I'll need to check and make sure the tripower fits.