embarrased to be asking this stupid 350 chevy question

[sawzall]

ok heres the deal.. I am doing some motor swapping, i just dropped another 350 in my 48 f1..

the motor in question is a 85 350 with a crane cam, screw in rocker arm studs, pushrod guides and all that other bullshit..


I have installed a new distr. a new cap , rotor, plug wires and plugs.. I bumped the motor over till the #1 piston was at top dead center and made sure the dizzy was pointing at the #1 plugwire..

I triple checked the firing order (18436572) and then checked it again... its right.. the motor doesnt seem to be 180 out of time.. but I still cant get it to fire..much less run..

I know i have spark to the plugs cuz I checked with my timing light on each wire. the voltage on the battery is alittle low (shows 12.8 volts) but the voltage at the dizzy shows 12..

previous to the new plugs I noticed that the rear plugs (back two on each side were getting fouled by fuel while I was trying to get the motor to start.. so I know the damn thing is getting gas...

any suggestions? clues or things I may have missed..
I checked to see that the intake was tight and I dont know where I could have a vac leak otherwise...

I did remove the ground wire from block to frame, clean it and reinstall thinking that this may be ground related but the damn thing still isnt running??

HELP http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


thanks in advance

sawzall

[Stevie G]

[ QUOTE ]
.. the motor doesnt seem to be 180 out of time.. but I still cant get it to fire..much less run..

[/ QUOTE ]

How sure are you?
If you have fuel and you have spark......what's left?

[Mass Butcher]

I just went through this last weekend. The 2 things for me were: valves were to tight, and even though I woulda bet $$ on the distributor being in correctly, low and behold it WAS 180 out. Stupid shit, and I knew better, but I messed with it for an hour before I rechecked it.

[cheaterslick]

Just a thought but are the wires from the dizzy in the same order as the rotor spins (clockwize or counterclockwize)? Basic I know but it's been done... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[loudpedal]

3 things needed for and engine to run:

Spark (at the correct time)
Fuel (at the correct ratio)
COMPRESSION (at the proper amount)

Do you have the proper compression? (measure it, don't guess)

Possible causes for low compression:
Tight valve adjustment, Lifters are not full of oil yet, Valve seat problems, Piston ring problems...


LP

[ray]

i think it's the low voltage, you can seem to be getting spark, but it takes more power to arc the spark plug gap under compression, when it really matters.

[choprods]

few suggestions then Ill shut up....the wires are on the cap in a clockwise formation?
the number one plug wire is on second "lug" of the DIST cap -starting from the square deal that the Hot lead is plugged into]2nd TO THE LEFT?
turn motor over a few times then re check your TDC on number 1 is up [on compression]and make positive sure its pointing to #1 there.
back off all valves a 1/4 turn and re-try!

[sawzall]

ok

I just turned the dizzy 180 and tried again.. lo and behold fuel sprayed up out of the carb.. I think i was right the first time...

the cap is in the correct order 18436572 starting at the first post on the hei after the square thingy.. where you power up the hei from,,

the current battery is out of my 40.. it will start my 40 all day long..and the 40 is running 10 :1 compression..

I have not adjusted the valves but this motor has been on a stand for a year since I yanked it out of the 40.. now I am putting it in the 48.. if it were any other motor I would think it was junk... but I drove lots of troublefree miles with this motor before the trans behind it went out...

[sawzall]

the plugwires come off the cap in a clockwise direction.

[Morrisman]

You know all that shit about dropping the dizzy in a tooth backwards because it turns as it goes in right? You've physically observed that the arm on the dizzy is pointing to the right contact with the cap off and #1 at TDC compression stroke?

Can't think of anything else, apart from shit old fuel, or water in the fuel http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Tudor]

I saw you did put in new plugs - recheck them to make sure they don't get fouled during the process of trying to start the motor. I have had that stump me before.

Even to the point where I had to clean them again an hour later

Try advancing timing to get it to kick and make sure the idle screw is turned in enough to give it gas to fire on

Your dizzy may not be 180 out but it could be a tooth off in either direction meaning the rotor should point slightly ahead or behind the number one

Keep trying it'll fire off

[mikes51]

On my 70's SBC number one cylinder is on the driver's side front. Is it still on the same side for an 85 model?

Probably not the problem, thought I mention it because when switching back and forth from Fords to Chevs one can attach the timing light to the wrong plug wire.

[sawzall]

yeah I know that the rotor in the dizzy rotates a little more after you drop it in.. I have confirmed that the dizzy is pointin at #1 with the cap off..

the fuel isnt new but not that old either.. I drove the truck with this carb and this fuel and this distributor from my storage garage to my house earlier this week.. so i cant believe that its the fuel or carb..

I just dont understand what the hell I am doing wrong I have done this a million times without all this trouble..

tudor: I think I am able to rotate the dizzy enough to compensate for one tooth off as I can turn the darn thing nearly 80 degrees..

thanks again to all those who have posted thus far..

I'm still trying

[dixiedog]

Like Tudor said,
I had the same problem with my 400 and kept rotating the dizzy while cranking and then at almost full advance it fired and ran rough, then we found that the dist gear was a tooth off.

When you crank does it sound like its struggling and trying to fire? That was my timing issue.

[sawzall]

dixie

thats the thing it doesnt seem like the motor is struggling to fire over.. maybe I am off my more than a tooth.. or worse yet maybe I have the wrong damn timing pointer on this motor.. I'll try moving it around a bit more.. thanks again

sawzall

PS any more ideas???

[loudpedal]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gifDid you check the compression ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif






LP

[sawzall]

no i didnt check compression yet.. the thing Is I drove this motor up until last year in my other car.. then when the trans went I yanked this motor and installed another motor and trans all the while hoping to keep this one around for another project..

so the long answer to your short question is no i didnt but I'll go see if I can do that right now..

[loudpedal]

I had an engine once that was running when I pulled it out. When it went back in hovever, had no compression due to a little mouse that had called it home. His house had been holding some of the valves open= no compression.

My buddy had one that had got wet (by his dad washing the garage floor) and ruined the valve seats= no compression.

Best to check and eliminate the possiblitly!
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

LP

[flt-blk]

[ QUOTE ]
the plugwires come off the cap in a clockwise direction.


[/ QUOTE ]
Does a chevy turn the rotor clockwise?, my S2D turns
counter clockwise, messed with me for a day and a half.

If nobody answers try pulling the cap and turn the engine
over to ensure the rotor rotates clockwise.
TZ

[desertratrodder]

Are you cranking this with the ignition switch, or a remote starter..maybe a wire isnt hooked up?
I broke the male plug that goes on the distributor so all the wires were individual. I had them switched, and it wouldnt start...
Even if timing was off, you'd have some popping and spitting, balls of fire flying out the carb.
I'm assuming the dizzy turns when you crank it..

[sawzall]

this one turns clockwise.. I can feel compression with my finger over the plug hole but cant get my compression tester to fit in around the headers and get tight enough to seal..

I have had the valvecovers off recently and the intake and I know that nothing has "made this motor its home" the motor has been in my garage on a stand for about a year its dry and moisture should not have been a problem...

any other ideas??

[magnet]

yeah clockwise...

i had my 283 all screwed up one day.. i ended up moving the plug wires over one spot on the cap.. and she fired right up.. the gear on the dizzy wasnt lined up correctly with the oil pump shaft somehow.. i still havent figured that one out.. but its timed and runs great. .. err well except that my cam is so worn the valve barely opens :-)

either that or the picture was incorrect in my chevy book...

either way.. i had to hunt till i got a hit pop or sputter... it ended up being one spot over.

sort of half ass but it worked.

[CalifCarl]

"or worse yet maybe I have the wrong damn timing pointer on this motor." Pull the number one plug, then turn the engine over(slowly) to find the top of the compression stroke. Then check the rotor position again.

[haring]

Jeff, I've determined that you are not doing anything wrong and therefore the engine is actually running just fine. Hope that helps.

[sawzall]

carl,

just did that.. and managed to tighten my compression tester into the plug hole and determine that there is compression,. at least in one cylinder... (180 lbs) sound right?

haring...

I know one thing for sure this damn thing aint running...

[loudpedal]

180lbs is WAY good. Do you have close to that in all cylinders? I've learned long ago to NEVER assume anything!

How fast does the engine crank over? If it's too slow it won't start...

I'm out of ideas here... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif


LP

[Baron Von Mike]

Hey Sawz,

The compression test is a wild goose chase in my opionion. If compression was the culprit, things would have to be really bad. An engine with almost shot compression will still at least kind of run.

I'm not a Chevy guy, so here are my two bits:

1. Debug the fuel system. Spray carb cleaner or starting fluid in the carb after disconnecting the fuel line. Spray lots. If the car starts with just this, you have a fuel problem. Make sure the pedal is to the floor while doing this. Don't forget to plug the fuel line you remove, else fuel will spill all over if the pump is working.

2. Not sure how the starter is hooked up in your car, but can it be possible that the pos and neg leads are reversed?

Heck man, you're the auto shop teacher. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mike

[Baumi]

I ´ve been through the same thing on a buddy´s 49 hour rod building project.
I´d bet the valves are too tight.My buddy had no oil pressure either due to the way too short distributor drive.

Here´s what I ´d do:
Loosen all the rockers
Turn #1 cylinder to compression TDC ( #1 both valves closed / # 6 rocking) Then rock the rocker up and down and tighten the screw until you can feel no more lash. Then tighten the srew another 3/4 turn.
Adjust #1 when #6 rocks
#8 when #5
#4 when #7
#3 when #2
#6 when #1
#5 when #8
#7 when #4
and #2 when #3 rocks.
I´ve learned this method from Germany´s #1 Top Alcohol Dragster Racer Pat Schöfer, and he told me that this was the best and easiest way to adjust valve lash on an sbc.
I guessed what wass good enough for him might be good enough for me too, since he started racing with an 1200 HP sbc about 20 years ago.

Give it a try.

Christoph

[FeO2]

Check for signs of arcing around the coil where the wires attach.Is the spark orange?Or is it blue/white and you can hear it snap?Did you have a point dizzy in the truck before?(resister wire?)Do you have 12volts With the starter rolling???Do you have another HEI to try? Inquiring minds want to know.......

[loudpedal]

[ QUOTE ]
3 things needed for and engine to run:

Spark (at the correct time)
Fuel (at the correct ratio)
COMPRESSION (at the proper amount)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Best to check and eliminate the possibility

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The compression test is a wild goose chase in my opionion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. don't listen to me... I've just been a Chevrolet Master and ASE Master Technician for the past 16 years...I've NEVER fixed anything!

?what do I know about cars?


LP

[Baron Von Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3 things needed for and engine to run:

Spark (at the correct time)
Fuel (at the correct ratio)
COMPRESSION (at the proper amount)

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Best to check and eliminate the possibility

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
The compression test is a wild goose chase in my opionion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah.. don't listen to me... I've just been a Chevrolet Master and ASE Master Technician for the past 16 years...I've NEVER fixed anything!

?what do I know about cars?


LP

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Hey LP,

These are all opinions posted here. My opinion posted was just that, like yours. You know that's how this stuff works, many cooks, one pot of soup.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[loudpedal]

Regardless of 'opinions', 3 things MUST be checked.


Spark
Fuel
Compression



(unless you want to chase your tail for hours). How long does it take to do a complete compression check for elimination purposes? 10 minutes tops?

Diagnosis is a process of elimination. End of story.


LP

[Revhead]

So this engine ran when pulled out of your other car. Sat and then put back in. If it wasn't touched in the mean time I don't see why valve lash would be off or the compression would be bad.

Technically it doesn't matter what post the No.1 plug is attached to as long as they are in order. Get the thing on TDC. If you can get the drivers side valve cover off easy both rockers will be up (vavles closed). If it's 180 out then the Exhaust valve will be open. Once you are positive it is on TDC look at where the rotor sits. mark the side of the distr. with a marker where it is pointing. Put the cap back on and see which plug wire it is at. If it's not #1, then put #1 there and re-do the others in clockwise order.

If ya don't like the position of the wires, you can change them once you figure out where they should be. If you had to move #1 back a pole, then the distr needs to be pulled just a bit and moved forward one tooth. Then the #1 can be put back where ya wanted it to be.

Try starting it while slowly moving the timing. Use small increments.

If you are not getting fuel try some starter fluid. or a spray bottle of gas. it will run on it if the timing is close.

[Upchuck]

pull #1 plug ground it were you can see it spark while your holding your finger over the hole, if she blows off same time it sparks your distibutor is ok and its down to a fuel problem, no spark you got some bad wireing or coil

even if you didn't have compression in 7 cylinders she sputter on 1

does it even fire, backfire or give any signs of life?

[loudpedal]

assume

\As*sume"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Assumed; p. pr. & vb. n. Assuming.] [L. assumere; ad + sumere to take; sub + emere to take, buy: cf. F. assumer. See Redeem.]

1. To take to or upon one's self; to take formally and demonstratively; sometimes, to appropriate or take unjustly.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif2. To take for granted, or without proof; to suppose as a fact; to suppose or take arbitrarily or tentatively. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



I've learned to never assume anything durring a diagnosis. It saves time AND money in the long run.
Take it or leave it. I'm done.
LP

[sawzall]

thanks to all those who were kind enough to post responses.. I am a shop teacher and this should be an easy problem to solve for me.. but for some reason this ones got me stumpted..

as of right now the motor is showing no signs of life. I am gonna try to pull the valve cover off again and set it to tdc one more time before I pull the headers and check compression in all the holes.. I just cannot get my compression tester in there right now.. (have I mentioned that I hate headers...

thanks again for all the help.. I think its time for another beer..

later sawzall

[lucky_1974]

Had this problem on my y-block. If it is a new timing gear set the marks on the gear set could be marked wrong.

I had fuel out the carb and sucking through the exhaust. The gear set was mis marked by 8 teeth when I took it out and compared to the old set. If everything is right at TDC and ready to fire (dizzy pointing at 1) both valves should be closed and if you go a little further the exhaust should be opening. If the timing set is goofed it will not be that way.

I would pull all the wires off the motor spray carb cleaner down the throat of the carb and turn the motor over if it sprays out it is definately timing. Hope this helps.

[Flat Ernie]

Sawzall - I'm sure you do, but I can't tell from the posts - how do you know you've got fuel? Way up at the beginning, you said your back two plugs were fouled, so you "knew" you were getting gas - are you STILL getting gas? Do you know ALL the cyls are getting fuel? The quick & easy is pour an ounce or so down the carb while cranking. Or a liberal dose of quick-start. Unlikely, but sounds like you've worked over the ignition system

I'd verify timing as mentioned above - pull the valve cover, verify TDC, check where your #1 wire is...

Have you visually checked you've got spark at the plugs instead of the timing light? I don't know what kind of light you use (or even if it matters), but when I'm trouble-shooting, I like to actually see the spark (I often get to feel it too http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) I've seen new distributors bad, I've seen new wires bad, I've seen lots of "new" parts be bad...

I'd verify compression in all cyls - even if only by unscientifically putting your finger over the plug hole - you've got that 180lb hole as a good reference for what the rest should feel like...

loudpedal is right - you gotta verify the 3 reqts...spark, fuel, & compression.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[choprods]

You surely know these two but here they are just for the record...
as I said in other post the number one wire should be in the #2 lug to left of power plg.
Reason for that is it allows it to be timed in a position where vac advance clears carb and accy's better and should be setting with distributor cap where the power in plug is facing straight to the left at 90 degrees.[close]
also sure you know when your "stab" the distributor-you place it {{{{{ONE KNOTCH BEHIND}}}}where you want it to end up as it will be off one knotch ,if you do not. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Her is what I think is the problem.....
take out all spark plugs and pull cap so you get nNO FIRE TO WIRES.
then crank the motor over for about 3 minutes or so......
this will pump up the lifters where the valves are "ACTUALLY" OPENING http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif AND CLOSING AS THEY SHOULD. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Southfork]

This SBC problem is intriging; be sure to let us all know what the cure is when you figure it out. Please don't leave us hanging on this, no matter how embarrassing the fix might be, or how many days have passed before a solution is found. OK?

[choprods]

BTTP...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifwhats the latest SAWZALL?

[sawzall]

Take a look what i did today.. instead of working on the truck.. sometimes you just gotta walk away for awhile...
wooden cars and wooden boats (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=466477&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=)

[sawzall]

For the record I didnt touch the truck all weekend.. as I was busy with other shit..

but heres what it turned out to be...

I said from the get go that I had this motor on the engine stand in the corner of my garage for about a year.. well during that time I had been envisioning droppin this puppy in one of my cars with some additional modifications.. that changed when i decided to put it in the truck the other day..)

anyhow one of the modifications I had planned was a gear drive.. which I never did..but what i did do however was..
I pulled the stupid lookin steel pan and timing cover off the motor and installed a chrome pan and a 2 piece chrome timing cover (Duck has already razzed me about the need for all this bling bling on a fleet of vehicles that prohibit you from seeing the motor but never the less.)

anyhow when I put it all back together I must have aligned everything with the timing marks off abit (this was mostly the result of too many beers that night in the shop or paying too little attention at the time..)

so all this hubub about fuel, spark, compression.. and timing.. as it turned out I had compression (at the wrong time) in fact I am actually amazed that any compression showed up at all.. i guess that slowed the diagnosis abit as well..

anyhow when I finally figured it out I yanked the front of the motor apart and quickly rectified the problem by setting the timing to the correct alignment.. and viola she fired right up this evening..

anyway..I dont need to explain the the moral of this story..

but I can assure everyone that in the future I'll be more careful..

thanks again to all those who lended ideas and thoughts..

later

sawzall

[choprods]

He who has not err'd has not done shit........ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Kinda like a late night thrash to get the motor in the car, and then when you go to prime the oil pump, you realize that you forgot to put the oil pump drive shaft in!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[hotrodsnguns]

[ QUOTE ]
Kinda like a late night thrash to get the motor in the car, and then when you go to prime the oil pump, you realize that you forgot to put the oil pump drive shaft in!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Or worse yet you forget to install the oil filter and pump 5 quarts of oil all over the floor

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Kinda like a late night thrash to get the motor in the car, and then when you go to prime the oil pump, you realize that you forgot to put the oil pump drive shaft in!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Or worse yet you forget to install the oil filter and pump 5 quarts of oil all over the floor

[/ QUOTE ]
I'd rather clean up 5 qts of oil than have to yank the motor back out to pull the oilpan to put the drive shaft back in!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[old beet]

I changed a tranny in a shoebox, in record time, jumped in the front seat and nearly drove the throw out bearing up my ass!!! I was in high school. Still hurts when I think about it...........OLDBEET

[SimonSez]

Hey Baron, thought I'd throw in a for-instance to show why checking for compression can sometimes be real helpful.

You buy a used engine that you have heard run and store it for a year or so. Later on once it's installed, you change the valve covers to something a bit flasher and while you are at it you adjust the valves.

Then a bit later on, you try to get it running. Hmmmm, fuel's ok and plenty of spark but no sign of it trying to fire.

Here's when the compression check tells you that none of the cylinders have any compression http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Then when you have re-adjusted the valves 'cos its really a solid lifter cam but the seller forgot to tell you, the compression test tells you that it's all good to go http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Flat Ernie]

I think it's cool you let us know what happened...silly mistakes and all - been there, done that (well similiar stuff).

What's still frying my brain: I've seen 'em run one tooth off though & you said you had it running fine in your first post. So why wouldn't it run anymore?

If you were off only a little, you should be OK, but if it were me, I'd check my pushrods just to be on the safe side - make sure you didn't bend any....

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Baron Von Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Baron, thought I'd throw in a for-instance to show why checking for compression can sometimes be real helpful.

You buy a used engine that you have heard run and store it for a year or so. Later on once it's installed, you change the valve covers to something a bit flasher and while you are at it you adjust the valves.

Then a bit later on, you try to get it running. Hmmmm, fuel's ok and plenty of spark but no sign of it trying to fire.

Here's when the compression check tells you that none of the cylinders have any compression http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Then when you have re-adjusted the valves 'cos its really a solid lifter cam but the seller forgot to tell you, the compression test tells you that it's all good to go http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

OK, I'll keep the compression thing in my list of check items from now on. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm sorry if I implied that compression was not important, that was not my intention. Heck, if you put your finger over a spark plug hole and the compression is strong enough to push it off, that's basically a good enough check right there. At least for checking way off timing.

Seems Mr. Sawz didn't tell us the whole story though! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

According to him, the engine just sat. The most he did was pull the valve covers off but never adjusted anything. There was never mention of this timing mess. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Glad you got it working!!

Mike

[sawzall]

[ QUOTE ]


Seems Mr. Sawz didn't tell us the whole story though! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

According to him, the engine just sat. The most he did was pull the valve covers off but never adjusted anything. There was never mention of this timing mess. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Glad you got it working!!

Mike



[/ QUOTE ]

mike

this is the worst part.. i had totally forgotten about messing with the timing chain till just the other day.. when I was thinking about all my previous intentions for this motor and the fact that I never intended to drop this thing in the truck...

thanks again to all who lended a hand

sawzall

[loudpedal]

[ QUOTE ]


Seems Mr. Sawz didn't tell us the whole story though! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

Above you find the reason to always verify everything. I never get the whole story on anything I repair.

LP

[SimonSez]

It also reinforces one of the best diagnosis questions - what has changed since it was last working.

Of course it doesn't help any if you can't remember what you did http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif