Hey painter's, got a quick question.... I'm painting some ghost flames on a freinds new black Harley. He wants red flames. After doing some 'test' panels, the red comes out purple because of how thin I'm putting it on. Using red powder mixed with AA transparent base. Trying to get the effect that the flames will "pop" when the sun hits it and then 'disappear'.....using gold on the flame tips....which works nice. Anyone know of a red pearl (either paste or powder) that you've had good luck with? I'm going to try some Auto Air red pearl this weekend to see how it turns out. Want something like the pic below, without the silver, and not as prominent... We may just use what we have, as purple was his second choice. Any tips/advice? Thanks guys!
I'm sure a qualified automotive painter will chime in - which is not me by the way. But I've done my share of "other" painting - My first thought would be to maybe try a different black base color as well to elimniate the blue + red = purple. You will get a purple tint either way, but the color build of the black may have something to do with the color shift. The deepest blacks are usually comprised of other spectrum colors to achieve the deepness - so finding a black that has less of a blue tint and more red to it may help (maybe? - just a thought)
I've found it easier to put it in the black in stead of on top. To get it thick enough in the clear, the clear it'self starts to get muddy. Craig
Well, the bike is brand new, but we will be shaving some of the trim and filling holes, so I'll need to get some black for touch up. So, add some red pearl to some black for the flames??? Hmmm.....I'll try a few tests this weekend... aabbcco.....thanks, didn't think of the 'tints' in the black...
yeah, I used to think black is just black - I became kind of a "black" nerd for a while on achieving different tones and builds for different subtle effects - really cool stuff once you get into it. Black is a spectrum of it's own - I even have a Pantone reference book (for offset printing) on just black colors and effects that I use and reference often.
Another thing I'm going to try is spraying the gold pearl (or maybe even a silver) first along the edges....then spray red CANDY over the gold....just to see what happens.... Whatdayathink?
I like the idea of the gold or silver under the red candy - you'll lose a lot of the "hidden" characteristics though. I would probably go more towards the silver since it would cancel the black more than the gold which could go a bit green/brown in light coats and the candy red might have more of a brown/brick tone to it once applied. I would also check with your paint supplier and look into the color codes of the paint you're using - find something with a higher red/yellow content than blue shade. Maybe even have them mix something up for you with a higher red content - it will still be a rich black (red shade), but may work better for this application.
If you're going to be experimenting, another thought may be to do the reverse proceedure and do a nice coverage of gold pearl first, mask the flames and shoot good coverage black in the negative space. Some transparent/candy black over the top and feathered into the flames to cut the contrast to a subtle flame and then shoot a red candy pearl over it all. It may make for some interesting light effects, but it would definitely have a red tone to it in the end. another option might be a metalic graphite (dark grey base) - feather in the flames & negative area with black until you're satified with the contrast - and full coverage red candy w/ pearl on top. Probably would look similar to the top, but may give you a bit more predictability.
What if you sprayed your black, then silver ghost flames and then the red candy over everything. That would give you pseudo red ghost flames, but the black would have a red tint to it. Just thinking out loud. Or maybe that would make the whole thing look purple....
That's where I'm heading, gonna give it a SHOT......I'm just afraid that the candy will affect the "disappearing act" of the pearl...... Saw a Black '68 SS396 Chevelle with blue pearl flames on the hood.....the car looked totally stock until the sun hit it just right, then BAM!, the flames "jumped" out....otherwise you couldn't see 'em...
This really intrigued me(I don't know why, but).... I just walked back into the shop and checked all the powdered pearls on my mixing bar, and there's two I thought might work---PPG PRL 96 Russet and PRL 99 Fine Russet....so I dabbed a little of each on my finger, then wiped it on a black surface(in this case the handle of a mixing topper/lid. Whaddya know, it "looks" red...sorta....maybe more of a true russet(kind of burnt red). So, I experimented further and wiped a little sunset red on the black.....and sure enough---it looks PURPLE Now in the (clear plastic)bottle, the Sunset red looks white(like most all pearls). The Russets are their true color in the bottle. Worth a look. Only bad thing, that stuff costs me over a hunnerd smackers a bottle(and I get a discount ) Don't know if all this helps, but, there ya go
I don't think you are using the right pearls, for one. There are regular pearls, or color pearls, which are mica flakes that are colored...it seems that these are the ones you are using here...the bike fender is not a ghost effect, it is pearl over black. The pearls you really want are called interference pearls, or flip flop pearl. They are clear, but reflect a color when the light hits them at the right angle. I don't know if the major paint manufacturers use them in regular paint. House of Kolor has them either premixed, or in powder or paste form. Sid Moses also carries them, in the biggest variety of colors I've seem! The paint looks normal until the light hits it the right way, then the color of the pearl " lights up" and you see your design. The interference peals come in a small choice of colors, red, blue, purple, green orange, gold, maybe pink. You mix them in an 'intercoat' clear, or jamming clear, so the paint dries fast, and leaves the mica sitting at different angles. Reg. clear would take too long to dry and the flakes would flatten out and not reflect light correctly. Put the pearl over any color basecoat, and then use regular clear over it to protect it. Darker colors take less pearl over them to see them, than light colors do, so experiment with the colors you are using. For a good flip flop effect, you have to be pretty precise in your mixing and coating to get it just right! Too much and it's milky looking, and seen all the time, not enough and you harly see it at all, even under the right lighting conditions.
I think it might be the wrong kind of pearl additive also. It needs to actually look red in the bottle, not a clear with red tint. I like the look of shooting gold or silver edges and then shooting candy or pearl over it but I don't think it will give the disappearing effect you want, it will be bright on the edges and then fade to nothing in the centers of your flames, more like the fender you showed.
Actually, my powdered pearls look like white dust (Hmmmmmm) in the container. It's only when you put it in the clear that you can see any color at all! That's another reason to do test panels, I forgot, when you put the pearl on the panel, you can't see it at all, just looks like another coat of clear. It's not until you put the final clear on it that you can see it again. Makes it difficult to guage it when you are spraying. You have to rely on your test panels to know how much, and how many coats you put on to achieve the amount of pearliness you want. Oh, yeah, by the way, if you want to see some examples of this type of pearl, you can see different types of ghost flames on my website. customsbyflash.com Look in the "how to paint flames" section. there is an example of flip flop pearl flames on a 55 Chevy there...Blue and gold flip on a burgundy car. And the colors look pretty true themselves, they weren't affected by the base color. They usually aren't, at least with the materials I use.
I know exactly what your talking about. Red pearls over black look pink to purple. I paint a lot of Harleys, a lot of black with pearl ghost flames.What you need to do is mix your dry pearl with a candy red base or make your own by starting with intercoat clear with very little red added plus your pearl then test over black. Don't judge the test panel until you've cleared it because it looks dramatically different after the clear. You can get somewhat of an idea without the clear by wiping the panel with your prep sol while wet you can see the effect. Good luck man
This to me sounds like the best route to go.Most pearls paste, powder or liquids have a contrasting flop to them.The only ones that I use that don't are PPG's PRLX line.Alot of the reds flop alittle blue wich is why your seeing purple or lavender.
I was gonna say the same, I've never really had a pearl be affected by a base color, whether I was going for a ghost look or a complete flip. I guess it because we use the same stuff!
More pearl trivia. Black is the best color to use as a base color period. Shoot purple pearl over black and you get the true purple, shoot that same pearl over white and you get a faint green camo color and can only see something that resembles purple when viewed at sharp angles in sunlight! If you want to ghost flame a base color that is heavily pearled don't use another pearl use a straight color for a (reversed effect)......it works but as always shoot test panels first and don't forget to charge for those test panels because the customer never brings them back!!!!!!
I have not tried it but would a little red candy in the intercoat-clear with the pearl help... maybe use white pearl like Alabaster Pearl and candy red intercoat instead of the golds or silvers- than clear over that... Don't know ... Jdee
Yes, but make sure the candy is a "basecoat" the same as the intercoat. If you use a candy "urathane" then put your pearl in that. The problem with that way is you should start the clear coats right away and that is a problem with masked off art work like flames etc. Basecoat is really the way to go it buys you more time and if necessary just shoot a coat of intercoat clear and walk away, when you want to resume then a light scuff on the intercoat and start again. Hope I explained it well enough for ya. Oh yeah one more thing watch mixing a white pearl with reds.....white+red= pink. I'd stick with a red pearl
Thanks for all the tips guys.....I really appreciate it!!! I'm going to try a few different things...including mixing some red candy in with my pearl 'intercoat' and getting some different pearls (interference)....
Hey Raffman I have a paint ? for you. I want to paint my 39 a suede green of some sort could you help me out with what type of paint I need give me a call or post back on this thread. Thanks Raff.
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