Older Antique Restos…Hands off?

[slowpoke]

As I search the yards, paper ads and web for fair/good Model A Coupe bodies I see a lot of them pricing on a range of $2000-$6000. Yet I see a lot of older Antique Restorations going for close to the same price $4000-$8000. So this begs the “amateur question”...is it a sacrilege to take one of these antique restros remove the flower vases and tear it all down to build a traditional rod? Thus maybe saving all the patch panel time to do something more fun like chopping the roof line, channeling, etc.

I’m new to this so it maybe a common thing than I’m aware of. Then again maybe I'm looking under the wrong rocks. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks.

[yorgatron]

it goes on a case-by-case basis.madel A's are still common as dirt,and you can still find buyers for running gear you don't need.i would hesitate in the case of an Oldsmobile or Hudson or Cadillac,but they benefit from superior engineering anyway... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kevin Lee]

If I was already willing to spend up to six grand for a shell and frame you can be damn sure I'd spend four for an older restoration and feel no remorse as I unbloted the fenders and luggage racks to get everything ready to swap later running gear under it.

[Donzie]

[ QUOTE ]
....Model A's are still common as dirt,...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll bet 25 years ago they said the same thing about '32s.

[G V Gordon]

There was a time that the prevailing wisdom said that a restored vehicle was worth a lot more than on that was modified. With the price a nice rod will bring today, that thinking is out the window for sure. Money talks, If you can buy it, you can cut it up. You won't catch any grief from me. And Donzie, I'm old enough to remember cheap old cars, never bought a '32, a lot of those ended up on the 3\8 mile bull ring here, but I remember catching hell for borrowing $50 from my 12 year old brother to buy a complete, running, '38 Ford panel truck. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bruce Lancaster]

The facts are there--good Model A body parts are getting scarce and expensive, slightly run down restorations with all good body parts are cheap. Makes no sense, but your numbers are correct--you could chug home from Hershey in a good Model A coupe for very little more than the same thing as a bare shell with a badly done chop, no floor, and lots of rust. The parts are all gone now because all have been assembled into rods and restorations. Tough call on which way to spend your money.
If you're a good scrounger you could turn that bare shell into a usable body and bare chassis for less than twice the cost of the complete car...

[Unkl Ian]

Unless the car is VERY rare,or is historically signifigant,
you paid for it,do as you please. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Your saving yourself time,money,plus alot of hard work and running around.

Why the Hell not ? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[4t64rd]

Think of how happy another restorer will be when you sell him already restored fenders, engines, brakes and transmissions, etc. for cheap! Fordbarn.com is full of all the stuff rodders pull off that they won't be using.

Just don't tell 'em your plans http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[daign]

That body could live the rest of its life as a rebel thats worth 14k+, or it could live its life dressed in a uniform at private school and worth $7k max.

Which would YOU pick if you were a model a? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeem]

How's this for heartless? I say if there are at least one or two (original or restored original examples) in someones collection or museum, have at it! Besides, I really do not think it is heartless at all to build a really cool hot rod or custom. Consider the effort, creativity, funk and soul it takes to build a really cool, timeless (relatively speaking) hawt rawd, and there really is no arguement. Yeah, I think older restos are the way to go too, money wise. Probably ought not tell the seller of your intents....

[Darwin]

This is all usually a matter of simple economics. Unless you have money to burn it's foolish to spend 12-15K on a well-restored A when you can spend 2-5K on a slightly raggy one that you can slice and dice as you please. When the diff is closer than that, say 6K as opposed to 4K that's a much tougher call and would depend on the individual cases. If somebody outright gave me a really cherry A I wouldn't hesitate rodding it but spending serious dough on it is another matter. I wouldn't worry too much about the rarity issue. The price of truly rare cars pretty much rules out their use for rodding. The probability of anyone rodding a $50,000 show winner is essentially zero.

[Fat Hack]

Hell yeah...buy a resto, or just a solid original and tear it apart to build it YOUR way! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Once you own it, you can and SHOULD do whatever you want with it towards making it the way you'd like to enjoy it! Make a snow plow or a helicopter out of it if that's what floats your boat!!!

Given today's market...buying a whole, solid, stock Model A and gutting and chopping it to suit your tastes makes good sense. You sell off all the parts you DON'T want or need, and replace them with the parts you DO want! In the long run, it will help to keep the project affordable and it will help at least one MORE stock Model A get restored to "replace" the one you just cannibalized!!

Go for it!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Tman]

Before

[Tman]

After

[Tman]

This one is for the same customer, he left the gingerbread on this A

[Tman]

Both those cars looked like nice restorations. The touring needed gobs of work. The bottom half of the car was scabbed over rust, patched to dupe an unnassuming buyer. Watch Restos, many of them are shit under the 1970s Enamel paint.

[The37Kid]

If you have the money to spend and buy an old restoration to rod fine with me. I don't think any "Rare" Model A bodies are out there at bargain prices. Two years ago at an AACA meet (not Hershey) there was talk about three National First Place winning 32-36 Fords that had been sold and were destined to become street rods. I'm only guessing but $20-30K would be about right for these cars. If you have to pay a shop an hourly rate to build a car this is money well spent.

[Harrison]

I'm a firm believer in starting with the nicest car you can afford - whatever that may be.

JH

[whodaky]

Tman that ginger bread roadster is a nice looking hot rod.Would look good park up beside my hi-boy. Have a saying here for restorers, a bit of a genralization I know "Paint it black and put it back"

[Morrisman]

Fine restorations are just quality raw material for rodders.

Next project I start I will buy the best basic car I can, rather than start with a rotted out bitsa rust bucket like I did this time http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[michaelthe9]

Here here Morrisman! I'm startin' with a creampuff '51 Ford Vicky and she is going to be a kustom by the time I am done with her. If someone wanted to save her from the axe, they should have bought her before I got to her http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.
Michael

[choprods]

Yeah-What TMan said........watch those old mothball boys at work........liscence plates tarred to the floor hell I saw em TAR the rust and shape that and finish over it with a black ratle can.
One time an old restorer[modelT] wanted me to pain his hood.
It had black a gloss Rustoleum finish http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
with dirt embedded in it....I didnt want to but to help the old man I did-I sprayed it for him and damn if it didnt look TOO GOOD!
well that didnt last long-[I had it on a stand in the drive] and while the Rustoleum was still flowing wet-a guy drove by with a SEMI and LOWBOY and fogged dust all over it! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
NOW I HAD A PERFECT MATCH........

[Rocky]

Cut the fuckers up! I would........

[TheRev]

OH GEEZ...i cant believe i'm gonna go here! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Personally,i think it's one thing to find some ol rusty POS in a field and going nuts on it!
But it's another thing(to me) to take a perfectly good car and Kill it!!.....jus my opinion! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Almost every one of my cars could be put back to stock.... if need be,it's just my way! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Some these guy's telling ya to hack it......are probably the same guy's(no offense) who were on
the StreetRod and Lowrider boards 3 years ago .....crying about all of "OUR" cars being sold to the Orient and Europe.
I guess i'm just a bit of a "Tin Hugger" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ABone312]

Too me, a car is only original once. Buy the best car you can afford, it really saves time and money in the long run. There aren't many cars that I would consider sacred and would not cut up to build a custom or rod.

[Bruce Lancaster]

We ARE restorers, dammit. We're restoring A models to the way they were in 1952 rather than 1931. What's the flap?
Time moves. Cars move. We move. Keep stirring.

[flatordead]

Isn't a correct build traditional hot rod kind of a restoration anyway ???

[34Hupmobile]

I say go for it. Of course I might be a little biased. According to the Hupmobile Club there are around 35 Model W Hupmobiles worldwide and of those only 2 are touring sedans.
I've turned one of those two into a resto-rod. So now a restored touring sedan is extremely rare. It would have been real nice to have all nice parts to work with like you'd get with a restored A.

[Sixcarb]

Cut m all.




----------
Injectors

[48_HEMI]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
....Model A's are still common as dirt,...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll bet 25 years ago they said the same thing about '32s.

[/ QUOTE ]



not 25 years ago! not 40 years ago! there are more 32's now than ever. and that's the reason no matter how nice or rough I have no interest in owning one http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[JamesG]

If I could get a real one of these, I'd slice and dice it...

http://grinitch.com/ida/images/desktop/tucker_d_800.jpg
http://grinitch.com/ida/images/desktop/tucker_c_800.jpg

[Slide]

I'll have to agree with what Tman said about the quality of older (or even newer) restos...as well as rods. I helped my ol man re-restore an A coupe a few years ago. It was an older "Pro" resto that got some minor damage in a garage fire. when we were tearing into it, we found that the bottom 5-6" of the body was nothing but a combination of bondo, chicken wire, and newspaper! We replaced them with decent patch panels and did it right. The owner came within inches of hot rodding it, but couldn't break himself free from his old way of thinking.

[rusty210]

I found this one on Autotrader.com. Cut it up please. Only $22,000. A great deal with $60,000 invested. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
http://images.traderonline.com/img/10/dealer/1394821/58134152_1.jpg

[slowpoke]

Thanks. Great posts guys (and good tips Tman). hehe I kinda figured the last thing I would do is tell ‘em my evil plan. "No sir, it's a present for my grandpa." http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just wanted to make sure I wasn't breaking some unwritten rule. or making a fatal flaw. Speaking of unwritten rules...what are your feelings on using these new stamped bodies from places like SO-CAL, etc. I haven't really considered them much cause of cost, styles and I want the experience of building it myself (the chops, window frame work, etc). I have though been considering SO-CAL’s chassis. But then that might be cause I’m reading their book on “How to build HOT ROD CHASSIS” book. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[HOTRODPRIMER]

Get the best car you can afford,,,,,,patch panels and body work take a lotta time,,,,,,,HRP

[Tudor]

I bought my A sedan from Slaz on here and sold the rolling chassis with motor.trans etc. for 2500 bucks minus the wheels. A guy local guy that sells Model A parts grabbed that shit up without thinking twice.

So I have 3000 grand in a good body plus I have all the wheels/glass/window actuators/seats/interior pieces/trim/hood/grille/floor pieces to build the rod with.

If if hadn't been for the shipping I would have had an alright deal going.
Maybe I paid too much for a tudor
I really enjoyed driving around in the A while it was all original too. It was also cool to take it all apart. It is hard to get some experience on the mechanicals of those old cars in their original form.

I don't see how you can go wrong getting a whole car vs an expensive shitty shell

[Morrisman]

[ QUOTE ]
But it's another thing(to me) to take a perfectly good car and Kill it!!.....jus my opinion!

[/ QUOTE ]

So Rev, a hot rod is just a passing phase for you, a trend, a fashion accessory, to be swapped to and fro with the times?

[TheRev]

Morris,I'm(this hurts) almost 50 http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif.I was born and raised in Hotrodding, and I mean this literally(didnt even have a choice) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
So this is the longest "phase" I've ever been thru in my life! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Like I said,I guess I've turned into a bit of a "tinhugger"
over the years http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
I just hate to see"good original tin" get hacked up,when were smothered by reproduction stuff and glass kits!
And ugly left over street rods from the 80's http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
I didnt expect my opinion to be popular http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifand thats why I usually keep them to myself http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[randy]

Yeah,

I've seen some TERRIBLE 80's street rods that should be purchased and redone as something worth a shit. The problem with building a trad. rod out of some 80's heap is that most of 'em have IFS, digital gauges, tilt steering, & disgusting interior, so you'd really have just a body to go from.

Some of the fat fendered 40's jobs show a little more potential as far as useable parts from a street rod. IFS on a '40 Ford isn't NEARLY the CRIME that IFS on a '32 is.

my .o2

-r

[Deuce Roadster]

[quote
there are more 32's now than ever. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I have seen this said before...............and let's do the math.......

If a fiberglass plant turned out 10 1932 bodies a week.....that's 500 1932 bodies a year..........and let's say that that are 10 plants producing 1932 fiberglass bodies.........that'a total of 5000 a year (highly doubtful production). Lets throw in 500 repro 1932 steel bodies. Total 5500 a year.

Henry Ford made over 330 thousand 1932's http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.... so at 5 thousand and 5 hundred 1932 bodies a year for the repro guys.......that over 60 years production...........I don't think so. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There were 56,000 5W coupes and 29,000 3W coupes Henry built.............that's 85,000......just coupes http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do not believe there are 86 thousand 32's (original and reproduction)left on the world...........just my 2 cemts.....


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[48_HEMI]

[ QUOTE ]
[quote
there are more 32's now than ever. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


I have seen this said before...............and let's do the math.......

If a fiberglass plant turned out 10 1932 bodies a week.....that's 500 1932 bodies a year..........and let's say that that are 10 plants producing 1932 fiberglass
.
LET SAY THERE ARE 150 PLANTS TURNING OUT BODIES, ITS REALLY GROWING.
.

bodies.........that'a total of 5000 a year (highly doubtful production). Lets throw in 500 repro 1932 steel bodies. Total 5500 a year.
.
WESCOTT'S CELEBRATING THEIR 30TH YEAR
.

Henry Ford made over 330 thousand 1932's http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif.... so at 5 thousand and 5 hundred 1932 bodies a year for the repro guys.......that over 60 years production...........I don't think so. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There were 56,000 5W coupes and 29,000 3W coupes Henry built.............that's 85,000......just coupes http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I do not believe there are 86 thousand 32's (original and reproduction)left on the world
THERE ARE A LOT OF ORIGINALS THAT HAVEN'T BEEN RODDED.....YET!!!
.
...........just my 2 cemts.....


http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Duece, you sound like a duece guy to me! hey I love the Duece! they are the ultimate hot rod! hands down, the winner.You have put a lot of time into your math and it sounds good.
I think we are talking APPLES AND ORANGES HERE.
you are talking fords total production which was mainly sedans with two and four doors, trucks
I'm talking Duece roadsters and 3 window coupes. in the 50+ years that I've been into hot rods there was never a place 25 to 40 years ago that you could walk into a building or parking lot and see 50+ duece roadsters. there was never a time when you could pick up a paper or magazine and find 15-20 for sale. I'VE got so caloused that walking thru a show with some 100 grand roadsters and I don't slow down enough to turn sideways for a good look. BUT if I see one driving down the street or in some market or burger joint (not a cruise in) they make my heart pump like crazy
I am not, or ever will knock the Duece http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[tommy]

http://fototime.com/{4DB80AC6-51FA-4C57-BFE1-832EF882FD61}/picture.JPG
.
Here is what I started with. I bought it 10 years ago for about the same money as a very basic rolling chassis and glass body at Hershey. The seller brought it to Hershey 3 years in a row with no buyers before I bought it. I heard at least 5 people say "anybody that would street rod that car ought to be shot" The seller said "buy it then and save it". I've got "so shoot me.." painted below the deck lid.
.
http://fototime.com/{7AA3246B-A3E1-4985-A8C2-6F26049A8EE2}/picture.JPG
.
I and others have gotten some grins with it. If I didn't buy it, it probably would still be stuck in a barn in Pa.

Supply and demand. The people that remember these cars as original when they drove them are all in their 70's-80's. They aren't buying cars to restore to original any more. There is no demand for original 30's restorable every day cars. At least not like it was 25 years ago. We are in the midst of a bubble of interest for the traditional hot rod. It too shall pass. Don't be surprised if the resto-rod (like the A roadster Tman showed) makes a come back. I still like them. You too will get too old to crawl into a chopped and channeled A coupe that rides like a buck board.

[Deuce Roadster]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


Not a problem here.......

We are talking apples and oranges.........because years ago a 600 vehicle car show was huge. My old 32 was at the 1st Nationals in Peoria and there were about 600 vehicles.........and maybe 20 to 30 Deuces (at the most) or less than 5 per cent of the total 600. With a 10,000 vehicle show (like Louisville NSRA Nats)...........4 % will be over 400 Deuces. Back then the odd and unusual was not as well accepted as today. The 1st Nats was mainly T Buckets, Model A's and fat fendered Fords. Today the repro cars are out in force. Out of the 50 roadsters you see now at a show....only a handful are HENRY FORD built. Today most of the 32 roadsters I see are repro (coupes too). But I have NO problem with that...........if they were not available I could NOT afford the steel one I have..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I believe the percentage of steel original Ford roadsters at the rod runs to be down from back then (1970). I want a 32 3W and have been looking for quite some time. Boy, did I wait too late to buy one. I may do the Wescott thing or the new Brookville IF they are more accurate than their roadsters.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Machinos]

If we were talking about, like, a '36 Cord or something, I'd say leave it the hell alone. But there were, and still ARE, so many old Fords that I wouldn't even worry about it once people start buying them out of museums to chop up. The only thing that'd get me about tearing up a restored Model A or something is that someone might have put a lot of hard work into restoring it, so that'd be kind of wasted if you were just going to take it all apart and strip the paint and interior and everything anyway.

[48_HEMI]

I'm on the same page, just havin' a problem remembering what book we're reading. I remember the first car show I went to in the fifties at the old armory. there were 20-25 cars in one building. not one 32. Just blew me away to see that many finished cars in one day!
we just cruised looking looking for cars and chicks. any good drive in resturant Gwinns, Henry's and later on Bob's Big Boy in East Pasadena or Glendale, the parking lot at the moonlight rollerway,drive thru's like IN-N-OUT on foothill in Pasadena or BURGERLANE between Arcadia and Monrovia. always a lot of hot roadsters very few 32's. I'm going to have to stick to my opening line. Way more 32,s running around any part of the country than we had in Southern California (I don't know about the rest of this country) in the 50's and 60's and thats a good thing the ones left are getting better and if the keep building 5500 a year they will always be here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
I'm done now http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[OldSub]

[ QUOTE ]
If we were talking about, like, a '36 Cord or something, I'd say leave it the hell alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the one hand I understand what you are saying and agree. My projects are all rusty old junk.

But the now very old guy, who was my dentist when I was a kid, actually has a '36 Cord, and I've long fantasized about rodding that car. I don't know that I'd actually do it if I could ever acquire the car, but I know I'd be thinking about it!

[Morrisman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If we were talking about, like, a '36 Cord or something, I'd say leave it the hell alone.

[/ QUOTE ]

On the one hand I understand what you are saying and agree. My projects are all rusty old junk.

But the now very old guy, who was my dentist when I was a kid, actually has a '36 Cord, and I've long fantasized about rodding that car. I don't know that I'd actually do it if I could ever acquire the car, but I know I'd be thinking about it!

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean a piece of old crud like this:
http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Pburgess68/1936_Cord_Custom_017_Lg_MVC585S.jpg
http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/Pburgess68/1936_Cord_Custom_017_Lg_MVC584S.jpg
Hah, soon take a gas axe to that and slice and dice that shiny shit off http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Bruce Lancaster]

I recently noticed a hot rod roadster in one of my early 1950's magazines that had a complete Cord dash in it. As I recall, the owner complained that he had to buy the whole Cord to get the dash because it was owned by someone planning to fixitupsomeday who wouldn't sell parts... Ever hear that story on here?