The MOTOR wins the "Monster Stare-Down"!!!

[Fat Hack]

Okay...I'm just pissin' up a rope with this deal here...got the motor where I want it...or at least where it HAS to be, and I've been staring at it for two days trying to figure out just how the hell to make it BE there in a more permanent fashion than just having the crank pulley resting on a block of wood!

I cobbled up some dopey looking bullshit made of steel that Superman himself couldnt bend...but the motor can fold it like a bad hand in poker! All the mighty girth of that lowly 2.8 obviously defies the laws of physics here!

Doesn't really matter that it's a front wheel drive block with no provisions for side mounts...cuz you couldn't use side mounts anyway! (Well, maybe on the passenger's side, but not on the driver's side).

Got it bolted to an S10 TH200 Metric tranny and set in the car, slightly offset to the passenger's side, but in line with the frame rails and level. (The trans is mounted slightly offset, so the motor is too).

The motor will have to be mounted with some type of SOLID mounts, too...no rubber allowed! The oil pan is only a piss drop away from the steering linkage, and that engine has to be planted REAL fucking securely to keep it from hitting while going down the road!

(I got a grand idea that will solve all these issues down the road...but I gotta cruise Taylor looking for some wack-job with a torch and a lift that would actually agree to DO such a wild-ass...ummm...chassis swap...that's for maybe NEXT year...kill the whole FLOCK of birds with one shotgun blast, so to speak!!!)

Just for fun and giggles (and because I'm out of good ideas!), use this crude ass diagram like a Kids Menu placemat at your favorite local choke-n-puke and show me YOUR design ideas. Refer to your 'paint' program in place of that styrofoam cup filled with broken carayons, and go to it!

(I'll show ya what I got a little later!)

I indicated where there are threaded bolt holes that could provide mounting points for the engine, and the squares to either side of the engine represnt the frame rails. The thin arrow indicates where there are two bolts that once held a dogbone mount to the cylinder head.

Have it...I'll tape the best ones up on the wall like Sir Graves' art gallery!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Morrisman]

Engine plates.
Fit one across the back 'tween engine and box, and/or another at the front of the motor somehow.

[Mr 42]

Something like this??

Some 1/4 inch thick steel plates and some half to one inch pipe to connect it.

[Donzie]

Ok, so I'm no engineer, but maybe you're going about this all wrong. How about mounting it from overhead? No steering linkage problems!
You were gonna run hoodless right?

[Slag Kustom]

go with a motor plated mounted behind the timing cover and water pump use 1/4 aluminum and make spacer for the crank pulley also make a mid plate for the back of the block out of 3/16 steal plate and use a stock rubber trans mount on the back of the trans

[hotrodladycrusr]

ROTFLMAO!!!! Good one Donzie! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[burger]

I like what Slag has done, except that moving the timing chain cover forward 1/4 might create a problem with the seal @ the oil pan and the harmonic balancer may not sit proper-like. I'd fit the engine plate around the timing cover to avoid that hassle.

Ed

[4t64rd]

This is how we do it in FL, Home Depot motor mounts, leaves lots of money left over for Chrome Smoothies. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Upchuck]

is there any spots cast for bolt holes but aren't drilled and tapped you could use?
what about a bracket that you could use the bolts that hold on the oil pan?

make a big upside down horseshoe one that uses both heads instead of just the one side?

I'm just rambling, carry on http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Slag Kustom]

hmmm only one problem with donzie sesign is side to side play so i fixed it for him

[burger]

Hack that scares me. What size are the bolts for the fuel pump? You would be suprised what a 1/4" grade 8 bolt can handle. (http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/fasteners/index.asp) Why can't you make a motor plate? I made mine with a handheld jigsaw (less than $50 at Sears) and a drill. What about making brackets that attach to the FRONT of the waterpump?


Ed

[Unkl Ian]

Make up some plywood forms,
and set the whole thing in Concrete.
Don't forget the rebar.

[Slag Kustom]

you could also put some spacers between the oil pan bolts and the lip and do a mount that way with a mid plate and rear trans mount

[metalshapes]

A question for ya Hack...
Is the Bellhouse bolt patern on that engine the same as a SBC?

[metalshapes]

[ QUOTE ]
No...different bolt pattern on the bellhousing than a small block...unique to 2.8s.


[/ QUOTE ]

To bad they did that.
I know you said you did not want one, but I think I could have hooked you up with a blockplate, but it is SBC.
It could have taken up the torque forces, while the single front mount could have taken care of the weight of the Engine...

[Slag Kustom]

if you use a front mount and the rear mount with out a mid plate there is too much flex a stick car i tried that on would not shift right at high rpm with out the mid mount.

[Levis Classic]

Duct tape and bailing wire should be fine for a V6!

[cornfieldrodder]

The fuel pump bolt holes should have enough meat so as they can be drilled and taped for 3/8 bolts. Would you be interested in converting to a later timing cover assy? There are more ways to put a motor plate on that one.
I don't have an early FWD block to look at, but the later engines have a couple of bosses for the A/C compressor mount. Are they present on yours but not drilled?
Every pic I have of FWD blocks (yes, i am very sick) show a trio of bosses between the fuel pump and the oil filter for the "front" motor mount. I have been fortunate to never have worked on any of the earliest Citation clones, but they had to use something foa a forward mount, a special front cover maybe?
How about a pic of your left/front block sitchiation.

[choprods]

Yes Greg show me a couple of shots of it in the engine bay- it can and WILL be done......

[JSM56]

[Chopped50Ford]

How bout this, a spring back design, kind of like a full floating motor.

[cornfieldrodder]

Those bosses are for the A/C compressor bracket. I have an aluminum unit, but it is from an 89 Corsica, it might be different. I'm willing to ship it to ya, but you will have to PM your addy to me. I can't find it from the intake deal.
It will not clear the fuel pump, though. Gen II mills use electric units. Maybe you can use it to put some thig together. If not, maybe you can complicate the project with A/C http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[RileyRacing]

Shit, that thing barely makes enuff HP as it is, don't go robbin what little ya got with A/C!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Just funnin ya!

Jay

[DIRTYT]

those are 5/16 bolts in your fuel pump spot. and im telling ya after looking at it yesterday you have no other way!! no way to make a front mount the damn block is like a whole 5 inches wide there and the crank pully is huge! damn 60% v6.
ill have to stare at it some more with ya on saterday morning! when i drop off the rest of your "latemodel" parts for this contraption!!

bryan

[DIRTYT]

hahaha damn i knew that didnt look right. why is there not a degree button on this keyboard!!haha im a dumb ass. yea listen to me on how to make your mounts they will work truuussssst me http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">You guys have me laughing so hard!!!

I haven't truly laughed in a week and that piss out of a boot thing has me going good!!!

Thanks, I needed that, ALOT!!!

RASHY </font>

[Unkl Ian]

This guy can probably help.
http://www.ioweb.com/redgreen/images/RedImages/red_car1.jpg
He's pretty handy.Just ask him,and he'll tell you. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Now I know why your name is Fat "HACK" hahaha...Oh man..What the hell are you working on anyways man?!

[Slag Kustom]

all this reading and typing and drawing pics i could have put a sbc in and been driving

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Ian that is some funny shit.... still think you're a dick! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[Tman]

I cant believe nobody has said this...........throw the fuckin POS V6 away!!!! Install a real motor, you are trying to answer the question nobody asked...........because they realized the answer led to total GAYNESS! While you are at it why not cut off the front clip and make a trike out of it? 16 over springer and center seating? Com'on, what little credibility you had is dissappearin fast.

[CURIOUS RASH]

<font color="green">WHOAH there grasshopper.

Ian is one of the coolest people you could ever meet.

Maybe he's just a little short of patience for certain things?

I'll let you decide what they are.

I think I used to work for that guy with the car duct taped onto the van!

RASHY </font>

[Cadillacin Marcus]

T I'm still trying to figure out what the fuck it is he's building ??? I read a post about a 700R4 or whatever that tranny was... out of some 80's S-10....

[DIRTYT]

no the damn duct tape guy|!!! hes canadian and has atv show he freeking duct tapes every thing its nuts!! yea damnit give up hack its to hard just conform and put in a sbc hell ill even bring over some red paint for your wheels. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Rocky]

BRAhahahahahahahahahahha! Ahhh shit! Hee hee....

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Hack is that a picture of you under your name??

[choprods]

I think a front motor "PLATES" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif -is the answer...a SEPERATE right and left,bolting to those three holes in each head.
Then make a vertical 2"PIPE stand on each frame rail that is half the height of distance between the holes in heads to top of frame.
That would make each peice stronger by 100%. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
You could then put a hockey puck or mount biscuit at the place the two meet.
Make the upper mounts out of 1/4" flat steel and the pipe stands on frame from 2" pipe with 1/4" thickness capped with a thick washer and a nut welded to bottom of that washer [first].
that way you can bolt the mount plate thru the rubber biscuit into the welded nut on washer.
make thin cardboard template patterns of the head to mount pie peices and mail em here and Ill make em and send em back. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif quit whinin -ya gotta get that turdball on the fuckin road!

[DIRTYT]

yea what he said!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Man you like just like a guy I used to work with..

[Hackerbilt]

Chevy truck style.
2 mounts on the bellhousing and one in the center of the engine up near the balancer...mounted to a yoke from the...gasp(!)...truck mount holes! No tranny mount at all.

YOU could make a strong mid-plate to take the place of the truck style bellhousing, rubber mount it, and then just fab a yoke from angle iron or something to add to the front to complete the mounting. Torque will be handled by the midplate, while alignment of the engine will be controlled by the front yoke and mount. Don't forget...you STILL have a trans mount so this setup would be very stable in front to rear and side to side movement as well!
Don't forget to add washers...ahhhh, SPACERS to the torque converter to allow for the mid plate thickness.

Or you could always weld the pan to the crossmember!!! LOL

Bill

[Nocero]

Hack I'll take some pictures and e mail them to you that should solve your problem sometime this weekend. Post your e mail address if it is not in your profile. I also may have some speed goodies for you since I grenaded my stroker motor and am going to a 3.4 now. I have a torquer 2 and a holley 500 with a nice chrome air filter I will be selling soon and if the cam is good in the blown motor I'll also make you a good deal on that. But you will have to spend some money on valve springs I think it is a.519 and .540 lifts and it is a solid lifter.

[burndup]

Hey, I have a line on a toyota tercel 1.5L motor CHEAP!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Cadillacin Marcus]

There you go Hack.. You might want to buy that for a future hot rod project...Man that reminds me of the 70's when guys were putting pinto 2.3's in thier rods... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[colorado51]

How about 2 motor plates between the water pump and block?

You would have to use 2 gaskets per side, and longer w/p bolts.

Although, you would have to space the other pulleys out to accommodate for the w/p being a little further forward due to the motor plate thickness.

Like this:

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v159/rockahula/Misc/mount4.jpg

http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v159/rockahula/Misc/MOUNT2.jpg

[38Chevy454]

Hack, the cleanest and I think easiest way is like mentioned a few times: midplate at the bellhousing bolts and then the existing trans rubber mount in the rear along with a single pass side mount to support the weight of the engine up front. The midplate will handle all the torque and the rear trans and front engine mounts will handle the front-to-back forces.

A midplate is easy to fab up out of aluminum and a jigsaw. Just set you trans case against the plate and mark the shape and holes. Space the converter-to-flexplate mounting bolts the same amount as the thickness of the midplate. The midplate does not even have to be full circumference one piece, it can just be two pieces on each side.

I also agree that the fuel pump mounting boss is sufficient to mount the drivers side along with the pass side mount. Go with simple electric fuel pump and be done.