sbf guys....what heads to use on 289

[mecutem]

I am in the middle of a rebuild on a 66 289. The short block is done and now I must decide on what heads to use. Won't be a race motor but I am a hot rodder and like to burn the tires once and a while. I remember in the early 70's the hot trick was using 351 heads. Any advice on best combination is appreciated.

1. Rebuild and run the 66 heads(2 barrel motor)

2.Find and rebuild 351 heads(what years?)

3. 65 hipo heads(I have a complete 1965hipo motor to rob parts from but prefer not to)

I won't be driving a lot of miles but want a motor I can run pump gas and not have to clean plugs all the time. Thanks for any help Steve

[a/fxcomet]

Well, you have two options: stock or aftermarket.

Stock: I would run some '69-'74 351W heads. Clean them up a little, and do the usual 3way valve job etc. Here is av8's most excellent post on porting the 351w heads: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB4&Number=93198&page=0&v iew=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1 .

The hipro heads flowed the same as the regular heads. They just came with screw in studs.

aftermarket: there are tons of nice heads for the SBF now. Some of the iron ones really arnt that expensive, and might not be too much more than the cost of reworking the 351w's.

It would be cooler to bolt on a set of 351w's you ported, but it would be a lot less work to bolt on a set of aftermarket heads. Your call.

4eva4banger, can you give us a little more info on the ProTopline SBF heads? The info on your website looks to really be the SBC info just copied over.

[4eva4banger]

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[Fat Hack]

I'd rebuild the heads you got. They'll work fine for a street motor with a mild cam and induction set-up. Newer heads will have hardened valve seats for unleaded fuel, but it's not a big issue. Many cars running around with the "old" heads on unleaded and doing okay!

If you have a legitimate 289 hi-po engine, keep it whole and use it in another project or sell it to finance your rebuild!

(If you stay in the car hobby long enough, you'll start to see that evryone's 289 is a "hi-po", every 302 is a "Boss", and every 327 or 350 Chevy is a "Vette motor" according to their owners....sure see a lot of two barrel hi-pos, Bosses and Vette motors out there! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[mecutem]

hey guys great info! I feel I should say a bit more about what I'm doing here. January 1970.....just 2 weeks with my new drivers license me and pops went looking for my "first" car. I decided on a cool metalic blue 66 stang fastback.First date, first drivein, first burnout, first drag race, first ticket, first hood scoop, all those memories. Drove it about a year and the motor started using oil. Over the next five years or so it had a police 428, then the opposite side of hp scale a six and then a nice running 302. In the mid 70's I bought a T-bucket project with a great 65 289 hp. I put the hp in my stang and drove maybe 30 miles. The motor seemed a little to radical to drive on the street so I parked it. Life got busy with family and home and work and my stang sat for the next 25 years or so. During those 25 years I drove and built hot rods...ignoring the stang. Luckily I saved the old 289 block and this past year had an engine shop go thru it. The hp is still in the car (solid cam, big dampner,hp cast in heads) but has siezed up tight.
Well I'm much nore mature (older) now than I was then and want to drive the car again. I have owned this car for 33 years and driven it maybe 2 years and 20k miles over all that time.
I don't need anything fancy for a motor. I have thought about the head upgrade to 351 off and on since I first read the article in Car Craft? back in about 1972. I'm one hot rodder who don't have to say I got a lot of money in a motor or car to have fun.
I can get 351 heads for next to nothin and puttin the good ole port job on them would be cool. Thanks for the good info and advice. Steve

[hillbillyhellcat]

My dad's '65 Ranchero runs a built 289 with '69 Windsor 4V heads... I am pretty sure those are the best stock Windsor heads you can get - I ran a pr of them on a 351 in a Torino... As for building the 289 - I didn't do the work (previous owner) but if originality wasn't an issue I would have opted for a stroked 302, the power just isn't really impressive to me.

[Flat Ernie]

351W heads prior to 74 all have the larger valves. Prior to 77, all had the larger ports. But 69-70 had smallest chambers with both large ports & valves making them the most desireable (read expensive) - some say the ports were even bigger than post-70 heads, but I haven't found a lot to support this and it would be only marginally larger. It is, however, very difficult to get the RIGHT intake gaskets for 69-70 (Felpro seems to want to put the later gaskets in everything). After 77, the heads are exactly the same as 302 including pedestal-style rockers and are almost worthless.

In reality, however, the pre-71 302 heads are an excellent chamber design, they just need a some port work (and bigger valves if you're really trying to make HP) to wake up and are dirt cheap (or free). Concentrate on the exhaust side and removing the thermactor boss. I think all this was covered in that excellent porting article mentioned above.

The 5.0 Stang racing crowd has helped put aftermarket heads in the affordable realm - you can get some excellent cast iron heads from World for surprisingly little money. If you want aluminum, they're reasonably priced, but not inexpensive at $1100+ or so.

Your HP heads are worth more uncut. If it were me, just for a reliable driver I'd find some pre-71 302 heads and port them.

If you want a little more bang for your buck, the World cast iron heads aren't much more (if any depending on your costs) than you'll have in ported stock heads and will be a better head all around.

Money no object? Unless I was racing, I'd go with Edelbrock aluminum heads.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[continentaljohn]

Hey Steve, if it was me I would leave the 351 heads alone. They flow great but only a few years and the extra work would off set a set on new heads. Plus a new 351 intake would be needed as well or the adapters. I would find a used long block out of a 5.0 mustang, roller cam and fuel Inj if you like. I would stay away from the 1990 or 91 5.0 because the pistons don't have releafs (eyebrows) for larger cams. You also can take a 5.0 block & heads and change the front cover and just use a electric fuel pump and make it look like a stocker motor as well. You can make plenty of power with a 5.0 or 302ci , got a buddy that runs mid 11's all day on pump gas.
Is your motor a K or a A motor?? K would be solid lifters??
thanks continental

[Fat Hack]

No special intake required when running 351W heads on a 289 or 302. It will accept any 289/302 intake. The difference between them and the 351W is the deck height, so the 351W intake is wider.

[mecutem]

I am absorbing as much of this tech as I can.....great stuff! In the last year or so I parted out 4 69 mach 1 mustangs and basically gave away the 2 351 motors! I'll bet those are the heads I need right. So I can run the 351 w heads my aluminum 289 intake? How about the solid cam and lifters from the 289 hp? Would that be too much cam for the street?

Hey John My car came with the C motor, which is what block is rebuilt. The 65 K motor is in my car. Kind of a shame it was a running driving car and I ignored it for so long that now the motor is stuck. Steve

[porknbeaner]

its a shame the short block is already done. I'd suggest a pair of cleavland heads. But the headbolt holes have to be drilled and tapped for that mod.

Next time, snag a pair of Cleavland heads, 2-V and not 4-V if you want to remain streetable. The 2-Vs are open chamber and the 4-Vs really don't start working until you get up around 7,000 rpm.

You'll have to get a different intake, but a place in OK makes one. They call it a street boss. Or you could make a sheet metal intake, its not that big a deal.

Now on to bigger and better things. When I was in high school the trick was to bolt a set of 302 heads on. Say from a 4 bbl car. I don't think it made that much difference but you could say you had 302 heads.

If you want to go cheap, snag a pair of 351W heads, preferably with bigger valves than you have, do a quick 3 angle valve job on 'em and then clean up the ports and the bowls.

If I were gonna go aftermarket, I would go with a set of Trick Flow Twisted Wedge. I run a set on a small block Chebby and they work real good. They should really wake a SBF up as they were originally designed for the Ford.

[continentaljohn]

Your right Fat hack on the intake I was going the other way. Put a blower on a 351 and needed adapters for the intake. For 69-70 heads were 60cc were later heads were 67cc and a good shave would be needed. But the gaskets for the 351 will need to modified for the largers ports and new head bolt because of the size diffrence. Arp # 254-3708 7/16 to 1/2 inch

[beatnik]

Lot of good info hear, 69-70 windsor heads where the hot ticket.

I know where all on a budget here, but my experience is by the time you get done with machine work and parts (hardend seats, valves, springs, screw in head studs) for a nice set of early windsor heads, you could have just went out and bought a set of aftermarket aluminum heads that will outflow any port worked 69 windsor heads right out of the box.

[Kommuter]

Nobody has mentioned them yet, but what about the GT40P?

These are the latest and greatest from the factory, and were standard on V8 Explorers. I understand that they will outflow any other stock head, out of the box. I have seen assembled, ready-to-go heads for $400 a pair. They also come equipped with hardened valve seats for unleaded. I think the plug clearance to headers is an issue, because some places sell headers specific to these heads, but the exhaust bolt pattern is the same.

Anybody have experience with these?

[Flat Ernie]

GT-40P have a different exhaust port and require custom headers.

If you run the solid cam from the HP, you'll HAVE to have screw-in studs/guide plates for 351 heads = more $$ (might as well buy aftermarket cast iron). Having said that, it's not a bad grind (I think Crane even repops it), but personally I'd got with a good dual-pattern hydraulic. Cam grinds have come a long way since '65! And since we're talking cams, I'd consider a retro-hydraulic roller kit.

If you decide to go 351C - skip both 4V & 2V and go for Aussie heads - they've got 2V sized ports & valves but with closed chambers and they're relatively easy to find. The intake you'll need was made by B&A called a Street Boss (dual plane) or Track Boss (single plane). However, B&A have been out of business for a while & the last few of these intakes I've seen on eBay went for $250+ - they're getting hard to find.

Bottom line - what do you want to do with this engine?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kommuter]

What I've seen and read says the GT40P works best with a different header, but doesn't necessarily REQUIRE them. I think some slight mods to standard headers might work, mostly needed for plug access. I have never actually used these, so I'm just kinda asking if this is true. They look like a good bargain solution, but if custom ($$) headers are needed, then the bargain goes away.

[scotth]

I had GT-40Ps on my old 85 moostang, and with a B-303 cam, Weiand Stealth intake and a Holley 600 ran 12.40@106.5. They make decent power. (all parts box-stock, except for carb jetting. stock rockers, short-block, etc) I had the Mac shorties designed to work with them, they weren't expensive. They say you can use regular headers, but plug access is a beeeyotch. The Ps are a good compromise.

Also, I see used dart (World Products) heads all of the time for <$500. You'll spend a couple hundred getting your stockers freshened up, something to think about...

If you just want a cheap build that'll be fun and just smoke the tires, any pre 77 or post 86 (E7) heads with a little cleanup will do the trick for ya.

[mecutem]

What a bunch of great info! All this tech and experience shared in just 2 days! In regard to what kinda motor do I want.....

1. Good hp to have fun with.....not win every race

2. High rpm potential...I love to run a stick car thru the gears slow with every shift at high rpms...old days thing I guess.

3 Very drivable motor that can run on just about any kind of gas.....if I have too.

I.m going to run a low gear so I know even a stock 2bl motor will feel pretty good runnin flat out in a 2300 pound car. Because I like to feel the high R's I maybe need some better valve train stuff than stock? I know the little hp motor will go way up there on the rpm's with no valve float.

Now I'm thinking maybe I should pullthe hp motor and just go thru it. It has very high domed pistons and if I remember when I bought the motor (around 1974) they told me it had trw 12 1/2 to 1 pistons. Way too much compression for the street isn't it? Like I said earlier I am not looking for a race car motor......just a high revver with some tire burning potetial. Thanks again you guys Steve

[porknbeaner]

12:1 is a little high with iron heads, and even iffy with aluminum heads.

I would probably look for around 9.5:1 with iron heads and no more than 10.5:1 with aluminum ones.

Have fun http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

if it don't get ya dirty it aint yours. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif