Can a newb ask some questions??

[GrantH]

First, I have ALWAYS been a fan of these old front engine drag cars. Now, I want to build a traditional car to get some experience and have some damn good fun in, but have a few questions.

First, it seems like these are not exactly legal at most tracks, true? Is this why events like The HAMB drags and such are around, so these old drag cars can run? I'm not much of a "rich man" (let alone only 20) so I can't make huge trips a lot, my local track would probably not let me run this style car, right?

Second, where can I read up on the rules? Is it based on weight to cubic inches, or tire size, or motor or???? I wanted to build a traditional rod, but these are far too bad ass to pass up!
(edit: found the official site for the HA/GR info, no need to answer this!)

Third, where do I get started?!?!? Do they HAVE to be powered by vintage motors, or would something mid 70's or a little earlier be suitable? Earlier the cooler I know! But once again the money comes into play!
(edit: same as last edit, except maybe some opinions on what to run that is buildable at the house, with not a LOT of knowledge (if any) on these old motors. Reading will be done of course)

Fourth, forums or reading material on these cars or similar cars, other than the HAMB?

I'd like to thanks ahead of time, as I will gladly take any and all information, and soak it all up! These things are far too cool!

[64 DODGE 440]

I'll try to sort of answer a few of your questions.

As for the legality of the cars, it depends on who is doing the tech as it seems like some places have no problems with the cars and some, like here in the Peoples Republic of California seem to feel that they need to meet much higher standards of certification.

The rules are listed in this forum and cover most of it. Pretty specific on vintage engines, flathead V8s and Inlines from '62 or earlier, manual transmissions and period carburetion. I won't go into the debate over four barrel carbs as that seems to be a basket of snakes that has been beaten to death already.

Weight of the car is what ever you make it, and pounds per cubic inch follows that.

The tires are limited to a 6" wide treaded bias-ply on the rear and the engine size is pretty much what you build.

Be creative and have fun and the rest will come along with it.

Our personal build is slowly coming together, and will be an attempt at having the most fun we can squeeze out of the oddest pile of vintage parts. The build thread for it is at this link.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189651

Hope that this helps.......the best advice I can give you is if you want to build one, go for it.

[Old6rodder]

Welcome aboard, this thing can be a bucket of fun.

A good deal of expense savings may be had in doing the work yourself. If you can design, engineer and fabricate you can do it as cheaply as it can be done (ever built a push cart?). These aspects aren't nearly as daunting as they might seem at first blush, most respond well to simple common sense and if you need to learn'em this is a good project to do that on.

Also you'll find that getting together with at least one buddy will make it far more fun, and seriously help your project survive those inevitable slow periods. There'll likely be one or more older types willing to lend a hand with both advice and parts chasing as well, just because it's something they remember fondly.

You'll note that the main theme of this class is "in the spirit". Several of the builders are using more recent equipment as long as it is an accurate match for something from the period. One example would be a newer "five (freeze) plug" slant six, these exactly match the older (harder to find) "three plug" version. A still later model with a newer factory head design and hydraulic lifters however, would be cheating (even though working over the earlier head is just fine).
A gearbox is pretty much a gearbox, as is a rear end, so substitutions there are reasonable enough.
To further this example, you could get a later slant six, gearbox and rear end free from someone pulling'em to cram in a big block & heavy rear (a fairly common thing these days). Pull an earlier head, solid cam and lifters from a junker, put it together and have something identical to the earlier version. These concepts can be applied to several makes/models of drive train that were manufactured on past '62, just needs a bit of research.

As for venues for the class. Like anything new, these will have to be built up. There are several places where they're already going well and there'll certainly be more to come.
Racing tracks are businesses. A local track used by local people most of the time will often be more open to innovative things than a high profile one that runs only big meets.
They will however, respond better to "here's what I'm doing and here's what it already is" than to "hey, how 'bout this idea", so approach'em with facts and proof instead of wishful thinking. Remember, they want to know what's in it for them. That's just the nature of business.

And most of all, have fun.

[REJ]

Let me throw in my .02.
I have two local tracks that I have run test/tune on and have had no problem. I ran my car in Reynolds, Ga. for the "Run What Ya Brung" meet this past year and had no problem passing tech.
If you build it within the parameters set up in the rules, you should have no problem unless you plan on going to California.
As far as pre 62 motors, there should be a pile of them in a junkyard somewhere close to you.
As previously stated, later model trannies and rears are allowed, as long as the car looks to be in the spirit.

[GrantH]

I believe I have a buddy or two here that would help me, one actually from the HAMB who does vintage racing with his MG. I had a plan to build my truck but I think I may just get it in solid condition and throw a hitch on it. I'm thinking it could pull a small trailer with this style car on it just fine. The track isn't far from here anyways.

I have never run a car at the track, but have done my share of street racing. Not near fast enough to be noticed at the track, that's my goal here. Build a super cool, decently quick (13's??), car that others may just build to compete with me.

I'd love to build a flattie, but money won't allow that. Are there any particular cars to look for motors out of, I know the biscayne small 6's don't put down too much power, and don't believe much can be done for them. Though I may be wrong here? I don't know much about what was available back then, and that is why I want to do this as well, aside from the racing, is to learn more about what was done back then.

Thanks for all the help so far.

[64 DODGE 440]

Don't worry about the lack of power available from the older inlines or even a mild flathead V8, there have been some pretty good runs by basic stock engines, and it lets you build and get things sorted before building your "race motor".

The name of the game is pounds per horsepower, and if you build a light car it will perform well.

Our planned powerplant is a 1934 Dodge flathead 6 with a whopping 218 cu in displacement. Going to freshen up the internals, get a camshaft ground and do some mild porting, hang a couple of 1 3/4" SU carbs on it on a homebuilt intake, some old style weedburner pipes, and go racing.

The chassis is being home built from some Model T rails found at a swap meet and at this moment with frame, front axle, steering box, engine and trans, we have a grand total of $110.00 into the project. It ain't "rocket science", and with a bit of looking around at other builds and some old style parts scrounging, and some creative thought on your own, you should be able to build on a budget and have a lot of fun for your investment.

[348chevy]

Go to a book seller like Amazon or Barnes and Noble and get a Book called California Bill's Chevrolet, GMC and Buick Speed Manual 1954 edition. It is dated but you should be able to update some of the things such as valves and porting. Get yourself a 1958 or 1959 260cu.in. Chevrolet truck engine. Rebuild it with new pistons with more compression and as big a cam as can be reground on your old cam. Send the rocker arms and lifters to Rocker arm Specialist in Anderson Cal. Do some port matching, get a three one barrel carb manifold from Patrick's in Arizonia and build some headers. All this should be the cheap way to go and you should be in the 12.00's with a 1500 lb car. I know that a GMC will be a little better choice but I'm finding out it is more expensive. In Mississippi you should have some junk yards that still have old Chev trucks in them and check the Hemming's. I have an extra 270 GMC engine but I can tell you it will be more expensive than the Chevrolet. :) Roy

[Rand Man]

Learn how to drag race with manual transmission before you worry about power. Put it together stock and get some seat time. My team mate can consistantly make our car go a second to a second and a half quicker than I can. HA/GR is a game of skill. It's been proven. On any given day, a slower car can win if it's in the hands of the right driver.

[REJ]

Case in point, the winner at the HAMB drags had a car that was one second slower than the one he beat. Or should I say, the faster car beat himself.
I started out with a stock engine the first year and had a blast. I am now building a motor that should be real competitive with the rest of the field.:D

[Ron Golden]

Heres some pictures of the HA/GR my partners and I are building. The blue stripes are actually just masking tape to shape the scallops that will be painted soon. The lack of front suspension is a personal preference to save weight.

Roy, I also included a picture of the roller rocker arms I've built for the GMC. See you next week.

Ron

[Ron Golden]

Roy,

Didn't include picture on roller rocker in last post.

Ron

[348chevy]

Ron I am slobbering over those see you next week. :D Roy

[GrantH]

Is that a custom cut setup? I am getting really really interested in this,just need to get the truck running and I can get started.

[GrantH]

Go to a book seller like Amazon or Barnes and Noble and get a Book called California Bill's Chevrolet, GMC and Buick Speed Manual 1954 edition. It is dated but you should be able to update some of the things such as valves and porting. Get yourself a 1958 or 1959 260cu.in. Chevrolet truck engine. Rebuild it with new pistons with more compression and as big a cam as can be reground on your old cam. Send the rocker arms and lifters to Rocker arm Specialist in Anderson Cal. Do some port matching, get a three one barrel carb manifold from Patrick's in Arizonia and build some headers. All this should be the cheap way to go and you should be in the 12.00's with a 1500 lb car. I know that a GMC will be a little better choice but I'm finding out it is more expensive. In Mississippi you should have some junk yards that still have old Chev trucks in them and check the Hemming's. I have an extra 270 GMC engine but I can tell you it will be more expensive than the Chevrolet. :) Roy

I'm searching for 260 parts, but can't find anything. Is it possibly a 261 or 265?

[Rand Man]

Yes the old, big Chevy six was a 261. That's the motor the Hornets team is using.

[Rand Man]

By the way, all these old motors can be expensive to build, so don't count out the Ford Flathead V8 for that reason.

[GrantH]

Yah, I was thinking a y-block but I believe I may look into the 261. Seems like it has a good bit of parts available for it. Looking for pics and info on the HAMB and google now.

[mudflap261]

the 261 can be identifted by the captain bars next to the distributor and another set about halfway on the intake side . you could go to your local libary for those books 348 mentioned if they dont have them they check other libarys and order them for you at no charge

[348chevy]

You mentioned a Y block which is a overhead V-8 and those are not allowed in this class although they should be because a good flathead will blow it away.:p Anyway no overhead valve v-8's allowed in this class. Just inline 6 or inline 8 or a flathead all pre 1962 at least that is how I read the rules. As has been said build it and have fun. :) Roy

[GrantH]

I thought y-blocks were pre 62? Mid/Late 50 T-birds used them, did they not? 57's did I believe....

I'm not going to ask for rules to be changed, I just read it as all pre 62 motors were allowed. If not, I will look elsewhere for an engine, I just thought it may be an option. All is well if not, I kinda dig the straight 6's now after seeing quite a few pictures.

[64 DODGE 440]

HA/GR rules can be found here. Flathead V8s or inlines pre '62.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185309&highlight=HA%2FGR+rules

[GrantH]

HA/GR rules can be found here. Flathead V8s or inlines pre '62.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=185309&highlight=HA%2FGR+rules




I misread the engine rule, my fault. As I said earlier, I'm not trying to change rules :) just trying to figure out a build plan! Thanks a lot so far guys.

[64 DODGE 440]

Glad to offer help. Build it and enjoy.:D

[Rand Man]

Sounds like you may not understand the difference between a flathead engine and an over-head valve design. The Ford Y-block, Chevy smallblock, Cadillac, Olds, and many, many more overhead valve, V8 engines were built before 1962. The only type of V8 allowed in the HA/GR class is of the flat head (valve-in-block) design.

[GrantH]

Sounds like you may not understand the difference between a flathead engine and an over-head valve design. The Ford Y-block, Chevy smallblock, Cadillac, Olds, and many, many more overhead valve, V8 engines were built before 1962. The only type of V8 allowed in the HA/GR class is of the flat head (valve-in-block) design.


I understand the OHV and all. I just read the rules wrong when I asked about the Y-block.

[Ron Golden]

Grant,

Welcome to the world of HAMBster dragsters.

Before you decide on an engine, you should take a realistic look at how fast you want to go and what your budget will be. Any kind of flathead engine will limit your horsepower due to an upper limit on the compression ratio and the fact they won't have very good intake port flow. Those 2 factors alone will limit the final power. A GOOD Ford flathead will only make about 200 HP. A smaller flathead inline 6 will make less power.

You also need to consider the maximum bore size on overhead valve inline engines because most of the older engines (pre 62) are generally small bore, long stroke designs. That limits the valve sizes, which limits the cylinder heads ability to flow enough to make serious power.

I selected the 302 cubic inch GMC since it is an overhead design with a large bore and moderate stroke (4" bore & 4" stroke) With a final bore of 4.125" the engine will end up at 321 cubic inches. Even this engine has several things working against it from a hi-po standpoint:
long, wide and heavy rods and a piston that weighs a ton. Simease intake and exhaust ports, etc. I'm having to get other rods, custom pistons, roller rocker arms, etc so the engine will live at rpm and make enough power to go fast. Therefore, the engine is very expensive to build. But, it should make some serious power and stay together. (Fingers crossed).

I think if I had it to do over I would use the 261 Chevy truck engine, make it bullet-proof with good parts, do some serious porting and turn it about 7500 rpm to get the power I need. Even then it wouldn't be cheap.

I think you'll find all the guys here will help you in any way they can. All of us just want to do a little racing and have a good time.

Ron

[recycler]

Ya, what Ron said :)

Brad

[GrantH]

Grant,

Welcome to the world of HAMBster dragsters.

Before you decide on an engine, you should take a realistic look at how fast you want to go and what your budget will be. Any kind of flathead engine will limit your horsepower due to an upper limit on the compression ratio and the fact they won't have very good intake port flow. Those 2 factors alone will limit the final power. A GOOD Ford flathead will only make about 200 HP. A smaller flathead inline 6 will make less power.

You also need to consider the maximum bore size on overhead valve inline engines because most of the older engines (pre 62) are generally small bore, long stroke designs. That limits the valve sizes, which limits the cylinder heads ability to flow enough to make serious power.

I selected the 302 cubic inch GMC since it is an overhead design with a large bore and moderate stroke (4" bore & 4" stroke) With a final bore of 4.125" the engine will end up at 321 cubic inches. Even this engine has several things working against it from a hi-po standpoint:
long, wide and heavy rods and a piston that weighs a ton. Simease intake and exhaust ports, etc. I'm having to get other rods, custom pistons, roller rocker arms, etc so the engine will live at rpm and make enough power to go fast. Therefore, the engine is very expensive to build. But, it should make some serious power and stay together. (Fingers crossed).

I think if I had it to do over I would use the 261 Chevy truck engine, make it bullet-proof with good parts, do some serious porting and turn it about 7500 rpm to get the power I need. Even then it wouldn't be cheap.

I think you'll find all the guys here will help you in any way they can. All of us just want to do a little racing and have a good time.

Ron

While I was going to look deeper into a buick straight 8...I think the 261 is the engine I need. I have heard a lot of good about them, just saying they are solid little motors built right. Finding one may be a problem though. I like the idea of a somewhat newer 4 speed behind it as well which seems to be an easy doing.

[mudflap261]

7of these cars will be running this sat at the old time drags inTULSA OK gates open at 11 their will be 4 FH 1 GMC 1 261 1 slant 6 see them live in person beeeee thereeeeeee Get your buddies an drive up here www.tulsaraceway.com

[GrantH]

I really wish I could mudflap, but with gas the way it is, I am not making it out of the state until new years to go back home to orlando for a vacation! I would love to catch some races though, maybe next year.

[kenagain]

hey any info for a cantafordya build = thinking T rails or square tubing = a bone front end with or without suspension= rearend mounted solid=open driveline=all early parts, banger engine=dual carbs winfield head headers, I already know , no electronic dizzyys=roll bar rules n cage?? any suggestions?? looks haul ass to me to do this==going on 69 yrs old living in So Cal==can weld n machine , fab up anything what are your comments =suggestions =etc
thanks
Ken
ps spent about 5 or more hours reading entire posts on HA/Gr

[GrantH]

not to be mean, but take the = signs out. im not so sure how much you can get out of a banger motor (if in fact you mean "banger" motor") I will probably run front and rear suspension, 261 built a bit (cam, head work, bored over, intake, headers, 3x2 probably). I am sure someone has solid mounted front and rear, but when you go hard off the line (as pointed out by another member in a pm) where does the twist go? It's going to jam one side (or lift both) into the ground hard and there goes that.

A link to the rules is posted at the top of the page, it dictates motor use, roll cage, frame rail, and safety (of all kind) specs. It should tell you everything you need to know, and leave you to get creative to fill in the blanks. I have a few ideas already :)

[mudflap261]

if you can do all that how come your not out in the garage makeing chips do it and quit talking about it Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead

[GrantH]

if you can do all that how come your not out in the garage makeing chips do it and quit talking about it Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead


I have a project in the garage already. I can't have 2 at once, or I will never have one together! I hope to start early next year. That's all plans, and giving him possible ideas, not set in stone stuff. I hope to get started soon, I am diggin the vibe of this class of racing.

[recycler]

Grant, all of the current cars have solid mounted rear ends and most have sprung front ends. Speed Merchants , Okie outlaw and Ram Rods have solid front and rear. We used solid front to save weight. Have run a best 60 foot of 1.73 and consistant 1.8/1.9s I say less is more.
Brad

[recycler]

Ken there are a few cars being built in the land of fruits and nuts. I'd get in touch with those guys for suggestions and ideas. I think the cali guys need to be very tight knit group to lobby the tracks to let them run without safety ruling them to death. Also I would consider find a partner or 3. It goes right along with the spirit of the class and spreads the financial load and the fun.
Brad

[64 DODGE 440]

hey any info for a cantafordya build = thinking T rails or square tubing = a bone front end with or without suspension= rearend mounted solid=open driveline=all early parts, banger engine=dual carbs winfield head headers, I already know , no electronic dizzyys=roll bar rules n cage?? any suggestions?? looks haul ass to me to do this==going on 69 yrs old living in So Cal==can weld n machine , fab up anything what are your comments =suggestions =etc
thanks
Ken
ps spent about 5 or more hours reading entire posts on HA/Gr

Hey Ken, like your idea for a banger powered car. Keep it light and it should be a kick in the butt fun ride.

Plus it will be neat to have another car with real vintage power to run against my '34 Dodge power. I think you can surprise some of the guys with how well it will run. I remember a car back in the early '60s at San Gabriel called "Midnight Oil" with a Riley head that ran real good.

Build it and have fun, that's what it's all about. There will always be someone faster, our goal is to grin more. :D

[kenagain]

Hey guys thanks for the input I have a warmed up A banger motor with winfield head winfield cam and dual 81's on aluminum manifold It has the light flywheel and the 9 in ford clutch I have a header on it now but am thinking open tubes type exhaust motor doesnt have 10 miles on it it is my avatar I was thinking along the lines of no suspension to save weight and I dont think a banger motor will twist a lot either I would like to find other hambers in this area interested in building a HA/GR anyone no anybody around San Diego?? I am in La Mesa
thanks all
Ken

[Rand Man]

The current quickest and fastest HA/GR legal rails are flathead powered. On the outlaw side, the quickest and fastest GMC and Ford Flathead are within a few hundreths of each other. OHV doesn't guarantee a win.

I say find the quickest way to get your ass in the seat and then get quicker from there. The plan in the begining was to find a running '50's engine-trans combo that was all but free. It's still a good, easy way to get started. When engines get torn-down progress gets stalled.

[Rand Man]

Of course if you have a warmed-up motor, use it.

[REJ]

Ken, please use the banger motor.
I was talking to my Dad last week and I knew that he used to drag race a Model A coupe with a banger motor in it. He says the best he remembers turning with a street driven banger motor was 13 flat. Take that same motor and put it in a rail and you would be giving the flatheads and OHV sixes a run for their money.:D

[348chevy]

There used to be a lot of Model A 4 banger rails and coupes running and they all did a respectable job. I think that you could build a rail that would be under 1000 lbs. and would give everyone fits. I can just see that thing getting 1.5 60 foot times and everyone playing catchup.:D Roy

[Old6rodder]

I like Rand Man's point. "First build it, then make it fast." Few things take the fun out of it more thoroughly than taking too long to get it up and running.

[sgtlethargic]

Are the comments on the "PRoCA" based on actually taking an HA/GR to be teched?

Thanks,
Kurt

...

As for the legality of the cars, it depends on who is doing the tech as it seems like some places have no problems with the cars and some, like here in the Peoples Republic of California seem to feel that they need to meet much higher standards of certification.

...

[Old6rodder]

Are the comments on the "PRoCA" based on actually taking an HA/GR to be teched?

Thanks,
Kurt


Yes indeedy ............

[sgtlethargic]

Yes indeedy ............

What track(s)?

[Old6rodder]

What track(s)?

Just Famoso so far. And to be quite honest we only went through the line to get an idea as to what we might be missing anyway. We've been out of the sport since the sixties and fully expected to run afoul of some of the new rules. A learning exercise.

The upshot was as we'd figured, a bunch of small stuff we needed to see to. However, two big things did surprise us. They wanted the same cage designs they require on seriously faster cars, and the same chassis rules, welding stipulations, certs, etc.
The rationales quoted were "open wheel car" and "dedicated race car". Our observations that our speeds & e.t.s hardly required those (bloody expensive for an "econo" class) measures and that NHRA (their sanctioning body due to carrying their insurance) already allowed the class elsewhere went moot, due mostly to our failure on the collection of smaller points.

We've corrected all the small points cited us (as well as a couple we noticed later) and will be back at the ANRA meet at Famoso this November for another "show & tell" that we've promised to do. We'll ask'em to have another look at it then, and hope to begin addressing the cage & welding issues.

A few of the folk on this board have taken positions already but we (Team Geezerspeed) have not. Nor have others, most are still building and planning for a more reasoned eventual response. Our own team is devising a "tour" for next year to include some out-of-state events we'd like to attend (especially some that might turn out to be schedule conflicts when we get local venues).

As to whether we expect at some point to have local venues? Yes indeedy. We're quite optimistic on that point. As are several others that are building for the class out here. To butcher a phrase, "Passion will find a way".

[Ol Deuce]

Say if any one has a need for a nice pr. of 2-5/16'' F.I hilborn for early hemi --chrysler . Ol Deuce

[64 DODGE 440]

Say if any one has a need for a nice pr. of 2-5/16'' F.I hilborn for early hemi --chrysler . Ol Deuce

It would probably be more effective to post this in a different thread, rather than in one devoted to a class of non-injected inlines and flathead V8s.

Just an observation, not a bitch.

[kenagain]

Hey old 6 can you post any pics as to what they want on the roll cage and the specifics after next inspection I am trying to gather the parts for frame n rearend will start on that first but dont want to rehash the cage crap if I can avoid it
thanks Ken
banger motor with 34 trans w/late gears(53 truck) n open drive

[Old6rodder]

Sure, I can do that.
We have a "middie" but the "roadster" types will be having the same issue, just a different application of the design requirements.

If you want to build to NHRA's "open wheel & dedicated car" specs anyway, both're available in the current NHRA rules booklet as well.

The gist is: four tube frame, double loop cage, tig welded, certified.
Specific additions are spelled out as well, mostly in the cage.
Automotive type frame members aren't even included in their considerations as these classes they want to put us in are intended for very fast cars.

[sgtlethargic]

Just Famoso so far...

Oh man, I was expecting you to say Irwindale or Fontana.

[Old6rodder]

I'm in the Rose Bowl/Eagle Rock area of North Highland Park. We'll be trying to get some test & tune time in at the new 'Dale early next year, so I'll let you all know how it goes then. I believe they're also NHRA.

The old Fontana strip's a housing developement now of course but the new drags at Fontana Raceway (NASCAR backed) are definitely NHRA.

It'll be best out here if we can get some realistic classification from NHRA. They're still letting single hoopers do half-track pedals and long burn-outs in their "nostalgia" events, and these result in speeds well above anything an HA/GR will ever see (even in the traps), and in cars far narrower.

[kenagain]

hey can ya email or post here the pics from nhra rules on cages? also do they have to be made with 4 rails to the front was planning on much simpler frame to hold down weight
thanks
Ken

[64 DODGE 440]

hey can ya email or post here the pics from nhra rules on cages? also do they have to be made with 4 rails to the front was planning on much simpler frame to hold down weight
thanks
Ken

The basic NHRA requirement for our class would have us running a AA/FA or Funny Car type of chassis, which I think you will agree is a small bit of OVERKILL considering our powerplant and rear tire limitations.

We are building with a set of Ford Model T rails as the main rails in our chassis, and as you say trying to hold down weight to be competitive with our mighty 218 mopar flathead 6.

[Old6rodder]

Ken, I should reiterate;
Only if you WANT to build to NHRA's EXISTING "California only classification" for HA/GR (and that is tucking us into a class so far above our heads as to be laughable and/or insulting) are these chassis specs relevant. And even so only at this initial time.
As Tom (64 DODGE 440) noted, you'll essentially be building a Funny car/Fuel altered type chassis (neither an inexpensive build nor in the "home built" spirit of our class).

Most of us are building to the HA/GR rules as given (and being run just fine elsewhere).

None the less, I'll copy the pertinent pages for (and pm'em to) you sometime this week.
Should more folks ask to have'em posted I guess I'll address that in a proper thread for it.

[348chevy]

Are all the tracks in CAL. NHRA? I would think that there would be some tracks who would cater to people who are not serious about wanting to race NHRA. Orange County closed I hear and so I guess that land is so valuable in Cal. that the tracks have a hard time existing. If they are not going to make it so you can run your cars as constructed then that means that anyone who wants to come to Caliyfornya to run would be SOL.:mad: Roy

[64 DODGE 440]

Are all the tracks in CAL. NHRA? I would think that there would be some tracks who would cater to people who are not serious about wanting to race NHRA. Orange County closed I hear and so I guess that land is so valuable in Cal. that the tracks have a hard time existing. If they are not going to make it so you can run your cars as constructed then that means that anyone who wants to come to Caliyfornya to run would be SOL.:mad: Roy

That sort of sums up our problems that we are trying to work out.

[Old6rodder]

Yeah, pretty much. For now at least.

[McKee]

Okay,...what wall thickness does the rollcage tubing have to be?

and what years is the 261 Chevy truck available?

Thanks!

[GrantH]

early to mid 50's i do believe.

[mudflap261]

55/62 1 ton truck and above canadian pontiacs had them also 4 point cage 125 wall

[Joe Hamby]

A 261 chevy 6 looks just like a 235, the way to tell is the captain bars, but the easiest way is to look low on the drivers side at the lines that go to the external oil filter, on the 235 these oil lines look like about 1/4 inch line and on the 261 it has a lot larger lines maybe 1/2 inch lines. This method is a lot easier on a greasy and durty block in an old truck salvage where you can't see the captain bars. Joe

[Drewfus]

hey can ya email or post here the pics from nhra rules on cages? also do they have to be made with 4 rails to the front was planning on much simpler frame to hold down weight


As far as I'm concerned, the argument of wanting to simplify the cage doesn't hold, for two reasons....

1. I went to the effort to weigh my bare chassis (and cage) which whilst being relatively simple, has the twin hoops, and sufficient coverage to protect me should something go wrong. The irony for me was that it was actually lighter than the diff centre... sure it's all chrome moly cage, but worth the investment

2. Safety is not one area to be 'scrimped' on, especially if you hope to go fast...just another challenge to think smarter...