Caddy Guys... My hearse took a dump....429 Help!!!!

[jonnycola]

So I was coming home from a local car show in my 64 hearse, and it started running like shit, which is unusual for that car.... started missing and it seemed like it was only running on five or six cylinders...

anyways, I got the thing home, pulled it most of the way in my garage (it's 24 feet long). It started raining pretty hard so I figured I'd pull it out.... started it up and it just started knocking like a diesel and then grinding like a cement mixer, and then she popped a head gasket and started pissing anti-freeze everywhere. I had been babying the car like crazy since I got the tranny fixed... I didnt overheat it or even rev it high, so I dont know.

I pulled the valve covers, and I didnt drop a valve, or bend a pushrod or anything... and it wasnt sludged up bad or anything...

So thats kind of where I'm at. A set of head gaskets costs 90 bucks and a whole gasket set minus the oilpan is 150...and thats alot of coin to shell out...

I figure worse case senario, the motor is toast..... would a 472 would bolt onto my tranny. Unfortunately mine is an early '64, so it has the Jetaway (which I just had rebuilt to the tune of 600 bucks) as opposed to the turbo 400. Is there anyway to bolt a 472 onto the jetaway?

Any ideas what may have happened? I'm still getting my feet wet with this stuff.

Thanks in advance as always.

Jonnycola

[wingnutz]

Ask Shifts..., but I don't think it'll work with the Jetaway!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Good luck

Mark

[yorgatron]

i once spent an afternoon puzzling out cad engine trans stuff with ratboy,and here's the deal on those;'64 cad could have the olds style jetaway or the new TH400,which on the outside looks identical to the ones used in buicks starting in '64.there's a cast iron "adaptor" from the factory on the back of the 429 to use the TH400.cad went to the B-O-P bellhousing later,'65 or '66,not sure which.472 is B-O-P so if i were you i'd get to work on those head gaskets.you wanna get the heads off right away and get all the water/antifreeze out of the cylinder bores before you get'em rusty-george

[jonnycola]

Shit....

Thanks George, but I guess that's what I get for having a transitional year car. Any ideas what the knocking could be?I know it's pretty hard to judge it without hearing it... but maybe an idea on what to expect.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

I had a 1965 Sedan De Ville in which was given to me by the original onwer,he told me the car had 350,000 miles on it and tyhe engine was never overhauled!I put another 50,000 on it before it grenaded on me,I have to venture to say the oil pump let go on mine..I was doing 85 on the freeway just cruising along for a Cadillac when the oil light came on...Pulled over checked the oil plenty of oil in it..kept driving and then I heard lifters chattering,its started missing like you said and then Thunk thunk thunk SEIZE...A 429 Cad is one HELL of a strong Engine..I would build another 429 and forget the 472..

[SpeedRacer2002]

i have been through 3 429s in my caddys and all let go due to the oil pump giving out.... wish there was a cheap way to fix these motors i love them.....

[jonnycola]

come to think of it, the oil light did go on that day.... I shut the motor off, checked the oil, was a quart low, filled it up... and shortly thereafter it started missing...

hmm... what do oil pumps for them usually go for?

[Uncle Pancakes]

Here is the skinny as I know it from my love affair with the 429: 64 is a one year only motor (can you say expensive?!) Used the Jetaway Hydro or in the high end cars (not series 62 or commercial chassis) used the TurboHydro (one year only version of the 400, used its own valve body!) The TurboHydro used an adaptor plate as the back of the block was cast to take the Jetaway tranny. The crankshafts have a DIFFERENT size flange on them so you cannot just swap a Turbo hydro motor into a Jetaway car! The later 65-67 429s have a different block casting at the back to so the later motors do not swap straight into a 64 car. The engine uses a cast aluminum front plate which is also the oil pump housing, these wear out and I have it on good authority from old caddy mechanics that the dealerships kept these on hand as it was a real issue on these motors, espically high mileage ones. They are KICK ass motors, very quick in good nick, but they are expensive and a bit tricky to rebuild as the blocks are known to warp when being rebored. The 472/500 series motors are very strong engines and and actually a better design for longevity but they are bigger and it takes a bit of work to fit one in a 64. Sean here has done this on his brothers car I believe. I'm sure you could sell the Jetaway if you have reciepts for the work to a Caddy restorer or save your pennys and find a GOOD rebuilder and try to score a NOS front plate.

[bobbleed]

Dude, if the oil pump's shot and the motor is making noises, that means the motors shot too.

Seems to me, you spun a bearing or something.

It also seems wierd to me that the head gasket would just blow water out like that. Every time I've ever delt with a blown head gasket, the water either ended up in the oilpan, or burned out through the exhaust. Was it bellowing white smoke? Are you sure you diddn't overheat it? Maybe you cracked something?

Maybe that thing is just hungry? I bet if you fucked a goth girl in the back it would run fine.

You should just burry that thing in your back yard and be done with it.......

Of corse you are a little Goth bitch so that hearse suits you well.

You should take it someplace and have someone who knows what they are doing look at it. It will be cheaper in the long run. I think you are in over your head with this one.

[jonnycola]

Ok, so if I need to find a new motor for it, it's got to be a 64... sounds like fun.

Mr. Bleed - That car is too cool to bury in the back yard, and the one short blond girl at the kwik trip thinks it, and I am the coolest thing ever.

It didnt overheat or burn any white smoke... I would have seen it.

Perhaps one of the cylinders fiiled up with fluid from when I parked it until when I started it, and turning it over forced it out the gasket??? When I pulled out the back two plugs on the drivers side (where it was leaking) and the gaps closed up...

My dad said he's seen that happen before... and that is a pretty strong starter.....


I want to learn and troubleshoot on this thing... and unfortunately it sounds like the motor has to come out either way.


But the coupe is coming first, so no one start bitching. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Wait a minute..in 1963 the new version ohv v8 came out in 390 CID version,not be confused with the 59-62 390,it was to be the last year of the hydro..in 1964 the 429 was introduced it featured the new th 400 trans...63-67 for the most part is the same engine..there is no cheap fix other than replace the pump before its too late thats all.. yeah ok the 64 429 is different... i had a 63 cdv never had the 64 had a 65 a 62 and a 52 and a 53 in my 60 GMC I love the engines..yeah 64 is that booger snot

[bobbleed]

Cool is the wrong word for that car.

[caddyman65]

Theres a guy here in town who deals only w/ 64 caddys and a cadillac salvage not far from here that are pretty good to deal with,let me know if you need anything

[caddyman65]

by the way, where is wales? I was born in Watertown

[jonnycola]

Alright, thanks a bunch guys. It looks like I need to dig into it and assess the damages. What exactly fails in the pump.... just for knowladge's sake.

Caddyman65, about 25 or 30 miles southeast. Mullins Ice cream is the coolest thing in that town.

[Uncle Pancakes]

Try to find the 63/64 Cadillac community on the WEB there is a guy on there Jason Edge who has tons of 64 parts and knowledge, sorry I can't remember the site address but do a search and you should find it.

[Sean]

If you do plan to swap in a 472/500 here is the short list of items to consider:
1: Motor Mounts - went through 4 different sets that were all supposed to be a "direct swap". Baby Brother finally fabbed a set of his own.
2: Oil pan - We sectioned and flipped a pan to clear the cross member and drag link.
3: Crossmember - Depending on how high and how far forward you plan on mounting your motor, you might have to notch your crossmember to clear the oil filter and fuel pump.
4: Exhaust - Factory cast iron would not clear the steering pump. Sanderson 500 and 600 series did not work either. A custom set are being built as we speak $$$$
5: Trans - Upgrade to a TH400. It's your best option.

The original 429 developed a rod knock and finally gave up the ghost. We still have the block and trans if anyone needs parts. My brother Scott did all of the work, so if you need more help when doing the swap. Send me a PM and I will give you his contact info.
Good luck.

[jonnycola]

If I was to find a a 429 with the Th400 transmission from a later model 64, would I be able to put it into the car with minimal effort, or is it easier to just find the same motor that I have?

[Cadillacin Marcus]

It should go right in...

[jonnycola]

Transmission mount.. driveshaft length all that the same?

[63CadGuy]

Here is the link to the 63-64 site:

http://groups.msn.com/196364CadillacCommunity/_homepage.msnw?pgmarket=en-us

These guys know there shit and Jason is the guy with all of the parts and info.

[caddychris]

Sean, The only correction to your list would be the oil pan issue. I did the whole Frankenpan thing too, took a mid sump and made a rear sump leaked like a sive. Then I discovered that the 472/500 ElDo's have a rear sump pan, unfortunately you cannot remove them without pulling the motor. Once I found a pan/ pickup tube combo, I "adjusted" the front a little to clear the drag link and... well, it leaks a lot less any way. But I got 375Hp and huge torque. 472's rock, it was well worth the work. Easier to find parts. 429's deffinately have serious oil pump design flaws. WTF were they thinking? oil pump goes bad, you have to strip the entire front of the motor and change the timing cover/oil pump housing. Those things are like gold at the bone yards too. 472 pump wears out, you put a thinner gasket on the thing and call it a day... Do the 472, you'll be happier in the long run.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

Theres a 429 for sale here locally too!! http://www.craigslist.org/sby/car/35147117.html

[caddychris]

Dude, you need to read the ad better.
El Dorado.
'67 was the first year of the FWD model. No help there.

[Cadillacin Marcus]

the engines are the same thats all I was looking at with 32,000 miles on it...I'm well aware of the front Wheel Drive in a 67 Eldo..

[Sean]

CaddyChris,
We had all three pans! Front, Mid, and Rear sump. The rear sump worked but it was just to damn tall. Since this car is going to sit pretty low we wanted everything tucked up nice and tight. That's why we hacked up the Front sump pan. I forgot all about having to make the new pickup tube. Add that to the list.

[caletcb]

ive got a 429 caddy engine thats newly and completly rebuilt i would sell

[oldcarmike]

ive got a 429 caddy engine thats newly and completly rebuilt i would sell

To do that you'd need to POST AN INTRO!! Go here:http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44274

After you did that you'd need to go back in fucking time since this thread is from July of 2004!!!! :rolleyes: I think the ship has sailed on this sales opportunity.

[Homespun91]

To do that you'd need to POST AN INTRO!! Go here:http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44274

After you did that you'd need to go back in fucking time since this thread is from July of 2004!!!! :rolleyes: I think the ship has sailed on this sales opportunity.

Oh shit, just lost another keyboard from a soda spew.....:D :D

[jonnycola]

What the fuck?

I put a big block chevy in two years ago. Haha

Someone should buy my hearse. It's up on the classifieds. 2500 bucks, with a good running, built, big block chevy with a "beefed up" turbo 400.

Maybe the dude still has a 28.8 connection down there in alabamer, and it took this long for the page to load.

[BERARDO MUCCI]

ive got a 429 im working on and was searching for some guys that knew their stuff. try www.cadillacpower.com,this (http://www.cadillacpower.com) forum has a ton of info and sources for the old caddy big blocks.you need to enter your specific site for info.

[eltiberius]

You say it was raining? Before you throw that motor away, check for water in your gas.
I bought a 59 coupe de ville for $350 from a woman that thought she had blown up the motor. The seals in the trunk leaked, the gasket around the sending unit was compromised, (that's where the water from the trunk pooled up), the result was water in the tank. Cheapest fix for a dead car I've ever had...Your symptoms sound like those of the 59.

[rustynewyorker]

For those even later to the party, the OP put a Chevy motor in the car 2 years ago, some FNG idiot revived a thread from 2004. Probably just typed in Caddy 429 into google and got a link to the thread, or something equally as dumb. I'd suggest he post an intro or go to the classified, but if they can't even look at the 2004 dates on every post, I don't know that it's worth the bother.

[richard lechner]

What bellhousing do I use to get my 429 caddy (67) to fit to a tremic 5 spd?

[Francisco Plumbero]

The critical bit of info for me is not too much gunk in it, if you had any gunk in it, thats not good, I would say you oil starved your cam and melted down a lobe, if so you need to do a total rebuild, I would pull the valve covers and plugs and rotate the crank, see if all your rockers are moving up and down. I did this to an old Poncho, sounds exactly the same. Sorry.

[OldSub]

What bellhousing do I use to get my 429 caddy (67) to fit to a tremic 5 spd?
Start a new thread with your question. Tagging onto a thread started in 2004 with a barely related question isn't going to get you very far.

[Andy Juelich]

Say if you guys were wondering what ever happened to this car thought i'd let you all know I bought this car from Johnny last summer and i'm just about to finishing it up, hopefully in the next few months. If you want to check it out just look at my album.

I find it amusing that this thread just wont die....

[patrick66]

It's a hearse thread, it's never meant to die! I was laughing hard, looking at the dates on this! And, I just added to the insanity. Gotta love it.