HOTRODS FOR BOY SCOUTS!

[Jeff Norwell]

Did a little neet job for the Boy Scouts of America....they needed some art fot there Pinewood derby's.Pretty neet way to get kids into hotrods and off of the gameboyz....Parents and kids build, paint and race.....on long aluminum drag tracks.....kinda O/T ...anybody here done this before?

[Anderson]

You've got aluminum??? All we got was wood.

* the Pinewood Derby was the only reason I stayed in scouts as long as I did.

[Jeff Norwell]

Nawww.I never made it to scouts...I got turfed in cubs.

[Donzie]

I did this with my youngest son (he's now 33) when he was in cub scouts. I still have my car, #69, though I think it's missing a wheel. I agree, what a great way to get fathers and sons working together and it's about CARS!
Great artwork Brush.
Mine didn't look as good as yours in your artwork but it did look like an old hotrod.

[Petejoe]

Oh yea!
I remember the old perverbial Pinewood derby.....
Helped my sons build them for race day.
The problem being..... After looking at the work on the wooden cars. I realized the build was really for the adults and the kids were just the racers. Still a great father/son exercise. Great that you did this for them...and a fenderless 37 to boot.

[Levis Classic]

Heres my sons from last spring

[Rix2Six]

Are you kidding??? My son and I did it for the first time last January. He's a Tiger Cub (the youngest group).

In HAMB tradition, we kicked butt and took names. He finished 2nd in his first heat and won the next 5 heats in a row including setting the fastest time and the pack championship. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Flexicoker]

Hell yeah I did that, Im a genuine Eagle Scout!! later tonight if the thread hasn't died maybe ill post some pics, my cars kicked ass!

[Jeff Norwell]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif..Wow I didn't realize there were so many into this stuff......maybe I will find a rule book and carve me one up ....Levi.....That is one freak'in kool piece!

[tredboy]

my nephew does this now as i did decades ago, i was amazed to find that they use digital timing devices and computers now!
they even way the cars on a digital scale to within a few 10ths of an ounce or something.

just goes to show ya technology doesn't ruin everything, some things remain the same http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

tred.

[krupanut]

Dad and I made a 57 fairlane, painted it seafoam green, it was fast too.
The next year I won best of show with a fendered model A
Made the fenders with an old band saw and painted it a candy marron.
Last year I raced I made a Sherman Tank.
Wish I still had them.
Pine wood derbys where a bast!

[Thirtycoup]

the pinewood derby was it man! i got beat every fuckin time but i still had blast building it. shit, i even raced in the cub crate derby a few years too, kinda like the soap box derby, of which i raced in that for about 3 or 4 years too, in indianapolis at the wilber shaw memorial track, i was lucky enough to win a couple free trips to akron to see the championship too, but i never raced over there. racin and scouts???? yeah they go together! ahhhhh, the memories last forever! later, mike

[safariknut]

GREAT POSTER Jeff!Here's a pic of one that I lettered for a friend of mine's son.Painted with Chameleon.I think he took second in the runoff with it.

[Baron Von Mike]

Oh man, now THIS takes me back.

My Dad and I made it to the Northern California state championships back in the 70's. If you want any tips on how to make these cars fast, I still remember most of our tricks. I still have the cars up in a box at my Mom's house...

Mike

[Cword]

I shattered the cam drive gear in my Model A at Scout Camp.

It was kinda fun going camping in the roadster when everyone else is in pickups and 'burbans. Sorta like drive to camp in a tent, live in a tent for the weekend and drive home in a tent.

There are 35 year old Kub Kars in our house as well as some that are less than a decade old. Helping the pack build those racers was one of the most fun series of evenings when I was a leader.
In Canada the cars are raced in Cub Packs by the 9 to 12 year old set. Scouts don't "officially" participate.

I left Scouting a couple years ago, when my kids became marching band geeks, sure enjoyed the experience though.

mike

[Revhead]

[ QUOTE ]
All we got was wood.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh, Are you sure that was really the boy scouts? maybe a NAMBLA meeting?

[saltflataddict]

"I left Scouting a couple years ago, when my kids became marching band geeks, sure enjoyed the experience though."

Thats too funny, its great to see you can poke fun at your kids..

Derby rules, I wish I had my old cars. My dad and I had a blast building them. Of course he took over on the build being a professional wood worker, but I still had a blast doing something with my dad. I hope to get my son involved, but Boy Scouts here in Utah, I am affraid is a little diiferent then in any other states. I have a strong feeling that if your not Morman here you will be the scout left out, so I am not sure I want to put my son thru that. Its just a social thing your a kid and your friends are the kids you go to church with and such. god I hate that. Now he will prob. be the kid (like I was only I was in Ca.) who raises hell and drops out of scouts to smoke pot.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[dixiedog]

Scouting was a highlight in my childhood as was building a derby car with my dad, we didn't place too high but we had fun. Glad to see it is still going strong. Don't try to sneek on some lead tape - you'll get caught, but Pam Cooking spray works as a damn good lube
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I was in it all the way to 17yrs old and it taught me a lot about managing people.

On a side note, United Way pissed me off when they quit supporting them last year (gay rights) - that was when my donations went straight to the Scouts.

[IntrstlarOvrdrve]

Heres a couplea of mine from a few years back http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/E8/51/35730408-20e4-02000180-.jpg
http://a7.cpimg.com/image/29/4B/35730217-8411-02000180-.jpg
http://a8.cpimg.com/image/2A/4B/35730218-b5a7-02000180-.jpg
http://a9.cpimg.com/image/2B/4B/35730219-0568-02000180-.jpg
Thanks dad http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Flatdog]

I remember doing the pinewood derby with my son. It had the electric feeling of a real race. One of the pack leaders commented on this and I said "You're right, it's just like a real race. It's not whether you win or lose, it's whether I win or lose."

[ponchobilly]

I remember that the fastest car in my troop was the one built by the kid alone. Square block of wood- almost painted- crooked wheels- and pennies taped on at the last minute at weigh in. Somehow it was always fast.

Graphite, silicone spray, 3-in-1 oil... tried it all. The best thing we did was polish the nails. Placed in a drill, then emory cloth used to remove the burrs from under the head area. That was back in the day when kits came with 2 wooden axles and thin metal wheels.

There are a few of us Eagles on this board. Fordiac posted on this a year or so ago. Still got mine somewhere.

Ovrdive- those are killer.
Bil

[Jeff Norwell]

.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif gotta get to work....C-word.....I am drawing as fast as possible....call me on the bat-phone if ya want!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif....yikes! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

yea..shoot...I should came here asking for reference..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[G V Gordon]

My Dad was real active in the Pinewood Derby races when I was in cub scouts. I am 55 so that has been a while. He built the track (all wood) and for a lot of years after my brother and I were out of school it hung in the barn. Someone revived the derby in our hometown so we donated the track to the scout troop. The cars then had hard plastic wheels and sheetrock nails as axles. We would chuck the nails in a drill and smooth the shanks with emery paper. A little powdered graphite helped as well. Since they didn't have a straight through axle we would glue the nail in the slot and wrap them with thread and glue for strength. Lots of good memories, Dad passed away about ten years ago. Thanks for the post.

[Rix2Six]

The other thing I like to do apart from polishing the nails is I chuck up the wheels on a drill and make sure they're smooth & round.

[KCsledz]

[ QUOTE ]
The other thing I like to do apart from polishing the nails is I chuck up the wheels on a drill and make sure they're smooth & round.

[/ QUOTE ]

That and a little powder lube like graphite worked for me.

[Unkl Ian]

Closest I got was builing a Hood Ornament Racer,about 6 years ago,
to race against Safariknut and friends at a Panel Jam in Dayton Ohio.
Luckily,there were no rules. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[nekroman]

I remember I left my pinewood derby car as it was when they gave it to me, just a block of wood. All I did was paint it black, grease up the inside of the wheels and put 12ga slugs inside holes I drilled in the bottom. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Smokin Joe]

Hooligan I know what you mean. I hauled up some wood & stuff to the scout camp at Driggs with a friend a few years ago. We get there on a beautiful afternoon and they've got the kids all gathered around scripture chasing instead of out hiking or doing something. We threw the wood and stuff out of the truck and left. Never went back.

My little brother was a cub scout. He came home crying the other kids "excommunicated" him because he didn't go to services at the church before the scout meeting. That was back in the 60's and it STILL pisses me off.

With the right scout leaders, scouting can be a great thing. My best friend was an eagle. But I think the churches should stay out of it.

[Fast Elvis]

Kub Kars are Kool..........built 4 with my son and he still has them proudly displayed in his bedroom. The last few years we sponsor a Kub Kar night at our shop for friends and customers! It's a blast to see the craftmanship of these wooden hot rods that grown men will build to win one of our custom piston trophies! We even have camera's set up for instant reply's on the big screen! We also have drag race engine recordings blarring over speakers on each run, overall it's a fab time!

Nice work Brush!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif.......sounds like your up to your arm pits with work these days!! Certainly helps to pay for all those kool parts for the hot rod!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Baron Von Mike]

Damn, this post makes me wanna get my old cars out take pics but they're nowhere around. Here's what my Dad and I did, we really got into it and I would not expect every Father/Son to put this much work into it.

First decide if you are doing a racer or a show car. Don't do both. We did racers, I built a ton of models as a kid and didn't want to make another car model.

Friction is your enemy, reduce it at all costs, like this:

- Low profile front end. Think a wedge design, nothing in front, getting wider as you go back.

- I think the modern kits are just a block of wood with the axles already in them?? Anyway, create axles like the front axles in the really cool Down and Derby pic in the first post. You need axles because you want the front of the car to have a small surface area, and axles are the only way to keep the wheels wide enough to clear the track.

- Once you have axles, streamline them.

- Reduce the amount of axle wood that actually touches the plastic wheel. Just enough so that there is enough flat area to keep the tire from wobbling.

- File off all burs on the nails. Put the nails in a drill and hit it with a nail file. Make sure you address the round portion of the nail and the head of the nail that hits the wheel. Smooth off the head of the nail for less air friction.

- File all the wheels. They need to be completely flat and true where the wheel hits the axle. Put the nail through the wheel, put the nail in a drill and spin the wheel. File the wheel perfectly flat. Even file off the fake spokes, flat = less friction. Make sure there are no plastic moulding lines anywhere when finished.

- When mounting the wheels, tap the nails just enough to let the wheel spin freely and keep it true. Don't let the wheel wobble and don't bind it. Once the wheels are mounted they must all be square to the ground and have no camber or toe.

- Graphite the hell out of all wheels. Before each race too. Don't use an oil. Dry graphite.

- We used melted lead poured into holes we drilled. Drill a long hole lengthwise, down the center of the block of wood, and make sure it's true and centered. Pour melted lead in the hole until you hit the desired 5 ounces. It was 5 ounces wasn't it??? If the car gets too heavy, you can drill out the lead until the desired weight is hit. The diameter of the hole we drilled was like 1/2 inch.

- Only drill that hole in the last 3/4 of the wood. Put as little weight on the front wheels as possible. We added just enough to keep it from bouncing. Don't tape coins on your car. If you want to use coins, counter sink them. Anything that sticks out hits air and causes friction.

- Sand, and seal the wood so that its perfectly smooth. Paint is a fine sealer. Once again, friction is bad.

- We built 5 cars and raced them in the back yard until we found the fastest one. We built our own test track with two lanes for this purpose.

- Also try to make the ground clearance as close as possible without hitting the track. Less air under the car is better. You can do this by mounting the nails higher in the body. You're sectioning it, really. Once again, we built a full size test track, properly curved and all so that we could test ground clearance.

Hope I didn't spew too much, its just pretty fun thinking about all that stuff again. In the end, just have fun with your kid, and let him give some input. The body design I came up with as a kid was the one that was the fastest, my Dad didn't come up with it. I think I spent a lot of time in class drawing cars and not studying. :-)

Mike

[kustombuilder]

nice works Jeffster. i've been wanting to build one ever since my skills got a little better than they were when i was 10 years old! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[saltflataddict]

"My little brother was a cub scout. He came home crying the other kids "excommunicated" him because he didn't go to services at the church before the scout meeting. That was back in the 60's and it STILL pisses me off."

You see thats exactly what I was talking about. I dont want my son to put up with that B.S. ..damn when I was a scout I got the cold shoudler because I was a skater now here its because we are not LDS. I hope not! I have some friends who are LDS so I hope they dont get pissed that I am ranting, but that is fucked. I will have my kid kicking their asses if thats the case when he joins. My wife tells me thats excatly whats its like here, I dont know Texas is looking better and better as my kids get older and into school..

[Big A]

They tend to kick along pretty good with an Estes D-12 in them too... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ham]

Now he will prob. be the kid (like I was only I was in Ca.) who raises hell and drops out of scouts to smoke pot..

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike- They now have merit bagdes for that! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Smokin Joe]

Wow, at tech post on pinewood derby! Cool http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I was never a scout, but we used to get the kits and build Estes rocket cars out of them.

[Jojo]

Here's a thought...the HAMB Drags are coming soon, this seems like a good night time activity while drinking and bench racing, why not set up the pine wood derby track and keep racing. I'd bet there would be some awesome cars put together. I think you can get a basic kit at Home Depot and think of the bragging rights.

[crewcutkid]

Wow, the pinewood derby. I'm an eagle scout now, I remember those days, my pops and I working on the little cars, his tricks of the trade. Awesome times.
-Crew

[saltflataddict]

[ QUOTE ]
Now he will prob. be the kid (like I was only I was in Ca.) who raises hell and drops out of scouts to smoke pot..

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike- They now have merit bagdes for that! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ha,ha,ha- now get to work you slacker.. always ditching work..

[Big A]

[ QUOTE ]
the HAMB Drags are coming soon, this seems like a good night time activity while drinking and bench racing

[/ QUOTE ]

rocket cars...

[OGNC]

Make them out of valve covers for the HAMB drags. That way it won't look like a bunch of old men playing with kids toys... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the HAMB Drags are coming soon, this seems like a good night time activity while drinking and bench racing

[/ QUOTE ]

rocket cars... ............Oh Yea........!!!!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Brad54]

This was my 8-year-old's first year in Scouts. They did two classes--one by the rules, one Unlimited for Dad's and family members who weren't scouts.
We made matching SoCal inspired Belly Tankers, with superchargers and Zoomies behind the roof bubble. Mine was white with the red nose, his was red with a white nose. He picked the number 9, so his was 9A (andrew) and mine was 9B (brad).
His was by the rules, mine had razor thin wheels and the body was hollowed out and I melted half a cake of plumber's lead into it!
With the matching cars, it was great--I'd do something on mine, he'd watch then do it to his. He learned about aerodynamics, friction, and how to use a bandsaw, drill press and Dremel tool. Nothing cooler than hearing "That's cool! I LIKE power tools!" Nothing more nerve wracking than hearing "Okay, I want to do the next cut, without your help" on the band saw.
We spent over 48 hours or better building them in the evenings and weekends. I explained that he probably wouldn't win the speed races since this was the first time we were entering, but we could definately place in the Best Appearing category. He took Second--the matching cars are on our mantle flanking the trophy. When the "cool" wears off as he gets older, they're going in my den or shop on permanent display.
Next year he wants to build matching front engine dragsters.
There was nothing like teaching him all that stuff and spending that time with him making the cars. He's got a very, very good grasp of the effects of friction now, and has seen how friction and aerodynamics applies to other things every day.
The best part is when you're not around sometime later, and he's working on a project with his friends, and whips out the Sharpie to mark his cut lines, does a diagram on scrap paper or figures out how to punch holes in something and hang it (they made Garage Sale signs this weekend, and put holes in them and Zip-tied them to the Uni-channel posts for the STOP signs in the neighborhood). You may not think they're paying attention, but when he says "I saw you doing it like that..." you'll never be prouder.
Oh, and mine was the fastest car at the meet. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
-Andrew's Dad

[Baron Von Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the HAMB Drags are coming soon, this seems like a good night time activity while drinking and bench racing

[/ QUOTE ]

rocket cars... ............Oh Yea........!!!!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Ummm...

http://www.estesrockets.com/products/product371.html

[whodaky]

great post Brush, your artwork is neat, I can see that being a great color combination for a future model car here. In Australia we didn't have the pin woood derby thing. But I have really enjoy all the post of the experiences you guys had.