Troubleshooting an electrical/starting nightmare...help

[Roothawg]

My dad has a 36 Ford pickup with a late model Vortec V8 in it, computer and all the wiring out of a 97 Chevy pickup.

Here are the Symptoms:
Truck has intermittent starting problem.
After driving the truck for approx. 10-20 miles and shutting it down....it will not crank. No power, nothing.
We get lights on the dash, gauges etc. but no crank.
He has no neutral safety switch( it is wired up as a anti-theft device). After sitting for a while.....it starts fine.

Could this be just a heat soaked starter?
It is sporadic and comes and goes at will so it is very hard to duplicate the problem. It is really starting to piss my Dad off, he is afraid to drive it and we all know that ain't right.

Help if ya can.......

[BigDdy31]

I would bet on heat soaked starter. If the starter is not brand new or if it is an Autozone type (rebuilt) starter, I would pull it and take it to a starter/alt shop (not a parts store) for testing to make sure the solenoid isn't weak somehow. It if is good, the a heat shield is definitely in order. You can go cheap with the half soup can style or go out and buy a nice one. You didn't say if it had headers or not but many types of headers create a tight, heat-holding situation around the starters on SBCs.

Hope this helps,

Big Daddy Eric

[Unkl Ian]

If you spray lots of water on the starter when it's hot,
and then it will crank,you'll know it's heat related.

Who made the wiring harness for the computer?

Is the hood louvered?

[FWilliams]

check the cable connections at the starter, a slightly loose connection can cause this.

[DrJ]

Ya might check a long shot, the neutral safety switch might be loose and moving in and out of adjustment quixotically.

[tommy]

Where is the battery ground connected? I had the same problem. I moved the battery ground cable from a welded stud on the frame to a bolt in the trany case and problem was solved. I changed starters, solenoids, built heat shields etc. etc. nothing. You'd think that if it worked cold that it would still work hot but I guess the extra resistance caused by the heat is the straw that breaks the camels back. The size of the batter cable needs to upped if it's a long run too. If all this is fine, I'd still think in terms of poor ground somewhere.

[JSM56]

in addition to loose connections check for coroded ones. when wires and connections get hot, their resistance increases. could be the problem. or just the heat soaked starter.

[Dirty2]

On fresh built street rods we think that just because the ground cable is tight it is ok but if where it is conected is fresh powder coated or painted it doesnt get enough ground. Take it loose and clean conections good. Also check out the starter and make shure it doesnt have alumn. field coils. Also have the battery checked with a good load test not a auto zone type but one that really loads it.Than check out the charging system Batterys will go down while driving and when you kill the car it wont restart but if you let it cool off the battery will some how charge it self up. I hope this helps.

[Dirty2]

One other thing I see this is a late model motor, If it has the gear reduction starter on it and you have had it rebuilt than its possible the rebuilder installed the magnetic case on backwards. That also will cause the problem.

[choprods]

Does it have a "bulkhead" connection at the firewall to conect ENGINE run harness to fuse panel and OR ECU?
IT could be a defective lug in that plug connector[heating up and drawing away from its corresponding contact and only making contact AGAIN after "cooling" back down.

[Roothawg]

OK, here is a little more info that may help.
The starter was from the salvage yard, so the status is unknown of it's history. The motor was out of a low mileage truck that went through a house in the May 3rd tornado. It had approx 19,000 miles on it. The connections are tight and the grounds have a factory lug on the back of the head. We have also, ground down to bare metal, added a ground strap to the computer, ground strap to the tranny, built soldered heavy gauge cable for the battery.

The starter makes no sound at all, none. No cliccking, nothing. It's like it has no battery at all. The headlights work, the VDO programable gauges do their sweep on the needle etc. but no power. We never seem to have a meter when it happens. We left the poker run last night to go and get one and by the time we got back it started. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The light on the dash seems to dim a bit when you engage the key to the "start" position but that's it.

On the wiring harness, it's all GM factory harness on the engine, computer etc. The only thing that isn't is the chassis harness which has no bulkhead connectors, it's a Haywire kit.

Thanks for all the input...it may be something stupid we are overlooking.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Well the easiest thing to do would be to hook up a test light and make sure that you are in fact getting power to the solenoid when you hit the key...

If not, it's a wiring problem.
If so, it's a starter problem!

[flatheadpete]

Try installing a remote starter solenoid. They generally run leaa than 15 bucks and can be installed anywhere. I have mine under the seat of my T bucket, away from any heat at all. Sounds like a heat soak situation to me.

[SKR8PN]

Root.....
Get one of those remote starter buttons. I have one with four ft leads on it,with a couple of alligator climps . Next time it won't start,hook it up to the battery lead and the solenoid on the starter, hit it,see what happens.That will bypass all the wiring,ignition switch and all. If it starts its wiring,if not,it's the starter.

[Rocky]

I had a 400 Poncho powered ford pickup that usta do the same damn thing...sometimes....amd only after shutting it off after warm-up. My problem was a bad ignition switch. Rather than change it and all the door locks to match, I simply wired, in parallel, another switch in the dash that would operate the starter when the F-O-R-D ignition switch went on vacation....worked like a champ.

[Roothawg]

Rocky, I am not sure but I think it may have a new ignition switch. I'll find out.

[Rocky]

Hey Root...gotta extra voltmeter there? Wire a voltmeter to the purple [start] wire going to the solenoid and put it where you can see it from the driver's seat. Next time thet sumbitch won't crank, check the meter while trying to crank, to see if it's getting 12 volts...if so, you gotta bad solenoid/starter. If not, find out why.

[Roothawg]

That's our next move Sir Rocky....we're not gonna let this thing beat us.....

[BigDdy31]

From what you said in your last post it sounds like the starter is the most likely culprit since its condition is unknown and it came from a salvage.

Your wiring sounds solid and if your battery is for sure good (I'm sure you've checked that already or tried to jump it from another car when it won't start) then I would put my money on component failure.

[Rocky]

Fuckin A, Rooty...we'll get through this...I know you can do it onna counta I've seen it personal like. Here! here's a photo I took of you diagnosing and repairing a very tricky problem last year on the Dragonfly [TM] ...Nuttin to it man...now, go get that voltmeter and about 4 feet of wire! Win one for the Gipper!

[hanginlow58]

I had the same problem right after a engine swap, put the ground closer to the starter( engine block )worked fine after that.

[67Imp.Wagon]

If your getting power to the solonoid then I would think starter. I just went through something real similar. You never knew if it was gonna crank or not.I put a new solonoid on it but still had problems so I had it rebuilt and things are fine.

If the armature is worn or the brushes are not makeing good contact because the springs are weak or they are stuck, the solonoid won't work.Thats what I was told by the shop that rebuilt mine.

I had ask them about that since I had put the new solonoid on.I thought if the brushes had worn I would still hear the solonoid click but they told me that was not true.

I

[Roothawg]

Thanks for all the replies, I have passed on the info via Mom. Dad's supposed to call me and let e know how much of this he has already tried.

[krupanut]

Root, My Pop had the same problem on his late model Buick.
Drove him nut's for a couple months until he finally gave in and had a tech look at it.
Ended up being something in the computer.
I'll ask him details next time I call him.

[Roothawg]

Here's an update.
We swapped the starter. We took off a possibly "rebuilt" starter and put on a "Wellington Special". That seems to have fixed the problem (Crossing fingers), we are gonna drive it to the Drags and see f she holds up. Been a couple of weeks now and it seems to have fixed the problem.

Viva La Flat-Top.