What does R-12 go for these days?

[Fat Hack]

It's been YEARS since I've tried to buy any R-12 refrigerant...I was just wondering what the little cans go for anymore...and if you can still buy them?

Anyone know?

Thanks! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[C9]

Fwiw - 134 kits go for $25. - $30. or so.
I had my 88 Mustang and 89 Ranger converted to 134 and it's an easy swap to do your own self.
You don't need special hoses like I'd heard, the original ones worked fine.

The big thing is to change to the 134 compatible oil.

[Antibilly]

Get FREEZE 12. 1LB cans go fo about 7.99....it works as well with R12, and can be mixed with R12

If you convert your system over to R134...make sure you replace the dryer and flush all the line as best as you can...Plan on replacing the Compressor in the future as well. R12 and R134 have different head pressure and most wont last very long after the conversion.

[Deuce Rails]

Where do you get FREEZE 12?

[Antibilly]

Most of your local Part stores carry it....Ask for it by name!!
If they dont stock it. Go to a Larger commercial pasrts supplier

[Rocket Scientist Chris]

I have a couple of boxes of those 1 lb cans of R-12 and would gladly sell you some. But, I have no idea if the stuff can be shipped. I guess it would have to be shipped under some sort of hazardous label. By ground, of course! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[MBL]

Dude! Draglikscc is right! A friend of mine had used that freeze stuf on his lincoln...and man is it COLD...I will be doing that to mine asap....in this fla heat.
Tim
MBL

[Antibilly]

I think the R12 goes for over 30 bucks a pound now days if not more.
Its hard to fine anyone who even carrys it anymore.

Thanks TIM....your off my list again http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[MBL]

But your still on Sinners.
Tim
MBL

[Rocky]

I had to do a little calling around town to find it but I did. The sales guy didn't have a price on it [gotta call back in an hour or so] but he said the R-12 has come down so much the alternative gasses weren't really selling that well this summer. His R-12 was available for $18.95 LB can.

[Antibilly]

wow thats cheap.........I sell R134 at 14.99 a lb through a AC service.

Sinners no threat.......Bring the HEAT!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Antibilly]

they dont even sell R12 around here anymore.......your hook up is full of sheet.
with the EPA standards its no less then 30 a lb

[38Chevy454]

Draglinks and MBL, Freeze12 is just a mix of about 80% R-134a and 20% of another refrigerant chemical that is miscible in the mineral oil. Mineral oil is what the R-12 systems use, but R-134a will not dissolve and mix with mineral oil. The 20% chemical is what takes the oil through the system. The only real savings is not having to flush out the old mineral oil and add new oil compatible with the R-134a. Like C9 said, to convert you need to flush out the old mineral oil and then use a R-134a compatible oil. Most R-134a conversions should use a POE (aka "ester") oil. Factory R-134a systems use PAG oil.

FWIW, if your old R-12 system has lost the chrage, you need to determine where the leak is and then after fixing that recharge it. I would just go wioth R-134a and the correct oil so that you can get the system serviced anywhere without any hassles. Most commercial shops will not touch a car with any blended refrigerant or alternative that is not R-134a. If you do the work yourself, put whatever you want.

BTW, "BBQ-12" (propane) is a component in many of the alternative refrigerants. Propane does work very well, but there is a lot of controversy about the use of it for laws and also safety concerns. Myself I believe it is not any more dangerous than the full tank of gas in the car, but some people really fight the hydrocarbon (HC) refrigerants.

[MBL]

Shows what you know Draglikscc....I haven't used it...but know that it is compatable with the R-12 systems....
Tim
MBL

[loudpedal]

R12 is at $44.95 per lb. here.

Listen to 38chev.. I couldn't have said it better myself.

LP

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
...some people really fight the hydrocarbon (HC) refrigerants.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those people should be constantly reminded that THEY are a HYDROCARBON! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Antibilly]

[ QUOTE ]
Shows what you know Draglikscc....

[/ QUOTE ]

you leave me no choice http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[MBL]

This is America. There are choices...many from which to choose! Don't limit yourself. You can start with maybe a new hairstyle.... and some shoes..or sneakers or even boots for planting in the occasional ass.
Tim
MBL

[Revhead]

R-12 is $28.00 a 12 oz. can. $625 for a 30lb bottle. Freeze12 is 80% R134, like 454 said. Works well in cars with large condensors and evaporators. Doesn't work very well in some smaller imports. Of course in Texas if it doesn't blow 35 degrees out the vents people bitch. The shop I worked at put r-12 back in r-12 cars. We refused to do changeovers to 134 or Freeze12 because at least 50% of customers thought it wasn't cold enough. We were able to get R-12 night and day. There's no shortage down here, but you have to be willing to pay the price.

Also.. you can use a synthetic oil if you convert to freeze12 or 134. Make sure you follow directions for the new refrigerant. you put about 25% less 134 in than you would r-12. Otherwise it will start blowing hoses or compressor seals.

[Antibilly]

Tim your not funny.........EVER!!!!! now go push that roadster around the barn one more time

[MBL]

I have never done any AC work as of yet...how would you tell that you have a leak or where it is? Isn't there some kind of testor that you kinda point at the hoses or drag accross them. I guess if its not blowing cold you must have a leak somewhere. So what you are saying is that this other chemical and oil allows the 134 and r-12 to be used in the same system?
Draglinkssc??? don't you remember when we laughed? I remember. I can't seem to stay off your list.
Tim
MBL

[FKNPOZER]

R12?!!!!

BUAHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
HAHAHA! YOUR KILING ME. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hudson_hawk]

so just to get this straight, i am low on freon. r-12 is out because of cost, freeze12 will work in a r-12 system w/o having to purge? and continue to use until a change over to r134?

[Antibilly]

thats correct!! R12 and Freeze 12 will work together. thats what its for.

Also Tim. Yu can add dye to the AC system. Run the car and when it stops blowing cold. You use a ultraviloet light to look for the dye...Or a leak detector for larger leak...

[38Chevy454]

MBL, yes you get a detector that "sniffs" for any leak. If the leak is large enough you can do the soap bubbles test. There is also an easy visual way: look for the oil/dirt collection spot where it has been leaking. For hard to find leaks they sell a UV dye that is put into the system and then you can look for it that way.

According to the law, you are not supposed to mix R-12 and R-134a. Ester oil is compatible with both R-12 and R-134a. R-134a does require a larger condenser as mentioned for optimal performance. R-134a is more sensitive to over and under charging.

You should always charge with gauges hooked to both high and low pressure sides. R-134a runs higher high side pressure than R-12.

[MBL]

I will have to take a look at the system this weekend. Thanks for the info.
Tim
MBL

[1oldtimer]

don't go with the "blends" like freeze 12 if your wanting to keep your car for awhile. freeze12 contains r22 (home refrig) and eats rubber. the convert for 134a is not too bad, just suck out r12 (and as much oil as you can), pull down to a vaccum, put the new fittings on, refill with r134a (and oil). r134a works at higher pressures (more heat) so adding a small electric fan (if you don't already have one) in front of the condenser won't hurt. by the way here in so cal you can't get pure r12 in the small cans anymore, only 30lb bottles @ $500-$700 each depending what time of year you buy it.

[porknbeaner]

Hack,
MP39 is a direct drop in for R12. YOU don't have to flush the system just pull a vacumm on it. And you can buy it yourself.
The smallest I've seen is 15 lb jugs but its cheap (by todays standards).
Just my .02. If you weren't so far off I'd offer you some of the old fashioned stuff, I still have a jug laying around.

[Flat Ernie]

You know it's only the US that's really abiding by these CFC laws - down in South America you can buy R12 all day long for cheap. When we used to take trips down there, there'd always be a couple guys on the crew who'd buy a 30lb or two, bring it back, & sell it - make big profits too (late 90s).

R134 really needs compatible hoses. If you use R12 hoses, expect to keep topping off your R134 system - the 134 will seep out of the hose itself slowly losing pressure.

IMO, R134 conversion don't work very well, but vehicles designed for 134 from the get-go are fine. I think it goes back to condensor sizes & efficiency.

Last time I priced R12 was prolly 95 or so & it was $9/1lb can...I used to buy it for buddys 'cuz I had a license...

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[buzzard]

Here is an ad in the Austin American Statesman today:

06/25/2004) Replacement R-12 Freon 12 can case, $150; 36 lb canister $275, 800-807-9612

[GRADY]

through our shop, the rate is $66 per pound...
which makes most want to convert to r134a as fast as they can...

[stealthcruiser]

give a look at
duracool.com
it is hydrocarbon based as well,and is supposed to chill well.

[tomslik]

well,here's how we do it.
we have an indentifier that'll tell us what's in the car already.
anything but r-12 or r-134 we won't fuck with it.
we HAVE to reclaim it and if it's contaminated with "drop-in" crap, we just made a 30' bottle of refrigerent worthless.

costs big $$$ to properly dispose of crap ref.


something else to be aware of is some of this shit is made with propane.
lessee, evap. leaks and you open car door, dome light switch makes car go boom,wife gets life ins. $$$

[playin' hookie]

.02 worth from a northerner.

We haven't been able to import or produce any R-12 in Canada for years. Once our stock was depleted that was supposed to be it( outside of smuggled in containers of course, got up to a g-note for a while). To purchase any type of freon we were required to be certified in ODP...ozone depletion. Don't even ask about those certification courses...three hours in length, then handed a certificate and registration number that expired in 2 months....why? because the legislation was temperary, but they would send us updates....probably.

As it is now, we still use those same numbers to purchase 134, keep records of all freon used, tag all vehicles serviced with/without charging of systems.blahblahblah.

But here's the kicker. If your bring your car in for an A/C check-up and the tech finds a leak in the system he is required by law to purge YOUR car of refrigerant to protect the ozone layer. And don't ask for your fair market value for that freon either.

one last note on this subject.....they like to show a video at A/C clinics on propane based refrigerent. Usually results in an evaporator leak and a spark.......vehicle blows up quite well http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif

[reefer]

I`m surprised to read that you can still buy and charge R12 openly in the U.S.I read in one of the refrigeration trade mags that came into the office at work about an American guy who imported a load of R12 into the U.S.and recieved a monster fine and jail time!
Since the Montreal protacol was signed by most of the developed world to counter the supposed ozone depletion, it has been illegal to use R12....and in this country, where they just love rules, its been enforced rigourously.

If i`m recharging an older R12 system and the guy does`nt want to upgrade to 134a system(never, they only get used during the summer months)I use R409a, a straight drop in, works fine.I believe the 134a molecule is 3 times smaller than the R12 molecule and can leak out that much easier i.e, a gas tight R12 system could leak like a sieve with R134a in it, hence all the new fittings and hoses.If you do use a blend refrigerant and you come to use it and find its short of gas...reclaim the system and fix the leak and recharge with a complete new charge of gas, as the refigerant can split(fractuate)in the system if it is left to stand and depending where the leak is on the system a partial loss can occur of one of the refrigerants used in the system/or a tiny leak will let the 134 blended bit escape but not big enough for the other component
gases to escape.

I long for the good old days of R12, R22 and R502...the back of my van now rides nearly on thr bump stops due to carrying 30 kilo kegs of 134,409,408,404.407c, 22,and a reclaim cylinder full of crapgas.

Oh yea, China and India the two fastest growing economies on the planet are exempt from the rules because they are classed as 3rd world and their industries are virtually non regulated.As a side note...the price of scrap metal has gone through the roof here as as copper tube, oil etc, as its all going to China to feed their economy....bought a Stars and Stripes flag in Orlando at Walt Disneys place and found out it was made in China...WTF!!

[Flat Ernie]

The Montreal Protocol is a fine on the industrialized first world nations - it's not enforced fairly or standardly across the world. It's a joke perpetrated by the hoax of the depletion of the ozone layer.

FWIW - it didn't outlaw R12, just the production of it - and only in 1st wold countries as reefer points out. So you had to use existing stocks & when they were gone, they were gone. That's how it's been enforced in the US at least. It probably is against the law to smuggle it in, but who's looking for freon smugglers? You're not going to bring in a semi-tractor-trailer load full of the stuff, but you might get away with a single/couple canister/s.

The ozone hole at the south pole has been documented since the early 1950s - it is a seasonal phenomenon. CFCs are several times heavier than air, so wind currents can only account for so much of it moving into the ozone. It is estimated that man has produced something on the order of 18 million tons of CFCs since their first production. Mt Pinitubo spewed approximately 30 million tons of CFCs into the upper atmosphere directly. The ozone hole is a joke. And the Montreal Protocol a crime perpetrated by those French scientists/socialists bastards who believe in a classless society.

Wow...ok, a little o/t ranting, but I feel better http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif