MOTOR, Need help/advice,directions for porting 351W heads

[av8]

I've been asked to port match and wake up a pair of 351W heads, but the only Fords I know anything about are the UHV models.

Casting marks are . . .

351
WF
29
2A
3D9
DOGE

I've been told about removing the knob on the exhaust-valve-guide boss, and I can see where some blending is needed in the bowls, but was wondering if there are some improvements that are so obvious.

I'll be away for the day, so if I don't reply to answers right away please don't get your tail in a twist -- as I often do. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TIA for any and all help.

[C9]

Do you have the Pat Ganahl book titled, "Ford Performance?"

There's some good info in there. (Pg.29.)
It looks like it will be less work than perhaps you thought.

[Radshit]

Try here. There are plenty of good articles from the 5.0 guys. In fact they prefer 351 heads, specially the 1969 heads.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/07/homeporting/index.shtml

[Pigiron]

Mike, I've ported a few 351W heads. Use the chevy 1.94 intake and 1.60 exhaust valve in stainless. Cast iron guides are fine. Use hardened exhoust seats. Open the bowls under the valve heads. You already have 60 cc chambers so be careful not to remove to much material but do unshroud the exhaust valve area next to the chamber. Smooth the intake runners but don't enlarge them. The exhaust runners are another matter. Remove the area around the guide and blend it into the runner. Open the exhaust opening to match the exhaust gasket. When you are done with the exhaust runner it should be about 50% larger then stock. The performance in this head comes from exhaust work. You'll need to install guide plates and screw in rocker studs. Use the 260-289 early pushrod length. These mods are for a healthy street motor. If you need more horsepower you should have started with aluminum aftermarket heads. Hope this helps you. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[a/fxcomet]

Mike check your PMs.

[av8]

Thanks, guys. This is exactly what I was looking for -- qualified leads and first-hand experience. The HAMB at its very best!

I'll take pictures, of course, and post them so you folks can critique my work. I'd really appreciate that. Really.

For me, some of the best stuff about hot rodding is learning to do things I've never done before, so this looks to be yet another wonderful adventure. I'm not so naiive to imagine that I'll come through this experience as any more than a hobbyist with some pretty good tool skills, working from the advice of experienced, hard-core SBForders.

Again, thanks for the help. I can hardly wait for next Thursday or Friday when I'll get to carving. Gotta finish up a flathead block for a good pal first . . .

[av8]

Pigiron -- Finally took a shot at the 351Ws today using your direction. So far so good, and thanks. (As I was carving away the first EGR bump I couldn't help but think "I sure hope he's not just pulling my chain about carving away an important-looking 3/8-inch knob in a critical area of this cylinder head . . ."http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Here's what I've done so far:

1. Cut down the EGR bump and blend it to the exhaust valve-guide boss.
2. Blend the inboard cheek of the exhaust valve pocket to the runner.
3. Match the intake runners to the gasket and blend up into the runner.

Here's what I need to know (check the pictures):

1. Have I removed enough of the EGR knob, or should I cut it closer to the imagined base of the valve-guide boss at the top of the runner?

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-5-1.jpg

2. I've highlighted the witness mark from the original exhaust gasket. Can I really open up the exhaust outlets and blend them into the runners this amount without finding water or worse?

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-4-5.jpg

3. I've cut the intakes to the gasket and blended them into the runners about half-way in, Is this enough at this end?

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-5-3.jpg

4. There's lots of sharp lip on the bottom edges of the valve seats, at the end -- or beginning -- of the short radius. Should I radius and blend them as I do on a flathead -- or would on a SBC?

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-5-2.jpg

[**DONOTDELETE**]

i hate to tell you this with all the time you spent porting to thing you could have brought a set of world products and been money a head plus you would have 2.02sintake and 1.60 exhaust. the do you pretty good

[nor cal nic]

comin' along nicely! also, good to see 'ya today at the FLATHEAD FUNNY FARM. i'll be up again soon...
nic

[av8]

ripperslame38 -- I hate to tell you this, but this board is more about doing than it is about buying.

[av8]

BTTT -- Still looking for an assessment from Pigiron of work done so far. Want to finish the heads tomorrow or Monday.

TIA

[Pigiron]

Mike, I just saw your post and can tell you are doing pretty much everything right. The shot of the exhaust port with the gasket area highlight is fine but make sure to center the actual exhaust opening the same distance from each header bolt hole. Yes you can completely open the exhaust port by totally removing the emission hump. Opening the bowls under the valve heads is important for flow, get rid of all sharp edges and smooth the walls in that area. Looks to me from the photos you are doing a good job. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[av8]

Thanks for the critique, Pigiron. I'd counted on centering the gasket and equalizing the material removal on the exhaust outlets. The new gaskets hadn't shown up before the end of the day Thursday so I wasn't sure how much slop there is in the bolt holes to move the gaskets that far out of position -- quite a bit I'd guess.

I will finish the work Monday or Tuesday and give you a full report with pictures. Once again, thanks for your guidance. Thanks too to a/fxcomet for the link to the late Ford hi-po board.

[av8]

Pigiron -- More progress. I didn't get the exhaust gasket until I was packed up for the day, so I concentrated on the intake valve bowls on one of the heads. Here's a bowl before . . .

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-5-2.jpg


And then cleaned up and blended.What do you think?

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/6-1-1.jpg


I'll cut the exhaust ports Monday.

[a/fxcomet]

That looks good Mike. Maybe attack the valve guides a little more?

http://www.airflowresearch.com/articles/article28/page3.jpg
Took this from http://www.airflowresearch.com . Couldnt really find a better picture. Maybe add more of a teardrop shape to the guides?

[a/fxcomet]

Found a shot of the Trick Flow TW:

[Pigiron]

Yep, you is on de right track Mike. A/FX is right, you need to do the same to the exhaust. Good job! By the way my name is Mike too. The ladies call me Michael. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[av8]

Thanks for the info and links, guys. There's not very much money in this job for me, but I think I'll just donate as much time as it takes to whittle the guides. No point in not doing a good job.

BTW, I haven't done much more with the exhaust so far other than knocking down the EGR bump. Now that I have the gasket to establish the runner size I can work back up toward the bowl.

[av8]

One last time . . .

I've finished the first head and will start on the second one tomorrow. I cut the guide bosses down some, but as much as I'd like to go farther with the work I'm already way upside down in this job that started out as a port match and a little cleanup.

Here are exhaust ports from the outlet side. The finish is a 240-grit polish on the bowls. . .

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/2-2-1.jpg


. . . and the runners.

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/2-1-2.jpg


Here's a comparison of ported and stock exhaust runners.

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/2-1-3.jpg


The intake bowls have a 120-grit finish.

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/2-1-4.jpg


This is as far as I'm prepared to go. Not optimum, but I think they'll flow much better than they did.

http://photo.starblvd.net/~AV8FORD/2-1-1.jpg


All suggestions for final corrections will be gladly and openly considered.http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And thanks much for all the help, guys.

[BLAKE]

Looks like I may be too late, but coincidentally I was reading my June '83 Hot Rod this weekend - includes a tech article on 'Tricking-out Ford's 351W Heads'. Five pages total - be glad to scan it if you want.

[Pigiron]

Jeez Mike, now with the photos all those chevy lovers will know how the Ford guys kick their bowtie butts! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You did a good job. What I forgot to tell you is that I usually have about have about 40-60 hours in a pair off heads. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif Mike

[rickyracer1962]

bitchin!

[av8]

Do you think the Chevy guys will even read this discussion about SBF speed secrets?

I'm not at all surprised about the time you put into a pair of heads, Mike. I have about 16 hours in the one head, going slow as I found my way with your excellent guidance. I figure 8-10 hours to bring the other head to this point.

I really look forward to having the opportunity and time to do a pair of 351Ws all the way to making the bowls perfect, unshrouding the valves, and polishing the combustion chambers.

I really appreciate your advice and counsel, and if I can ever return the favor please don't think twice about asking.

[Bass]

Great post AV8 and Pigiron....and I'm even a chevy guy! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[burndup]

Yes thanks... more notes in my "Rebuild that old 327" notebook.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[av8]

Pigiron AKA Mike -- 'Nother question: The customer provided a new Edelbrick Performer manifold that's to be matched to the heads. Piece of cake for a Chevy where the bolt holes are perpendicular to the mounting surface on the head and everything lines up without any fudging or fussing.

Then there's the Ford scheme . . .

I didn't have the manifold at the time I did the intake runners in the head. What I did was center the gasket, up and down, relative to the bolt holes with bolts screwed in to give me some idea of clearance.

The new manifold provides no clues whatsoever, no indexing, tiny imprecisely shaped runners that are about 60 percent of the cross-sectional area of the runners in the heads (before being opened up to the gasket -- maybe a 6-8 percent increase).

I'm thinking I have to accept a compromise and just center the gasket on the manifold and open the runners accordingly. Vern Tardel confirms this approach.

I'm thinking, too, of not opening up the manifold runners as much as those in the head so if the alignment is a bit off there's not likely to be a step for the intake charge to run into between the manifold and the head. The pressure delta going from a small area into a larger area isn't as bad as running into a step, IMHO.

I suppose this one adds another six-pack to your fee, on top of the case of suds I already owe you!http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

TIA

that other Mike

[av8]

BTTT -- still lookin' for some help . . .

[38dlxcp]

you can use tool makers "prussian blue"(spelling?) paint(very thin, it does not dry ) the surface of the head (I use an acid brush) and bolt the intake to it to leave the "witness" marks. With the exhaust ports so big now, you need to do the headers too, you may need to weld or braze around the tube to not break thru.
Hope this helps

[av8]

Thanks for the suggestion about using prussion blue. I'd considered bolting the manifold to a head and then fogging some primer through the runner with the aid of an extension "straw" on a rattlecan.

What I wound up doing was centering the gasket on the manifold and cutting the runners just a touch smaller, like I said earlier. I think it's going to be just fine.

[Pigiron]

Mike, I've been spending all my time in the shop the past two days, replaced the transmission in the 27 roadster after I blew the 1st one up. Also have been helpng tune a nice little Deuce roadster flattie powered, not unlike your own that a friend has built. You are right about not having an abrupt edge in the manifold runner and leaving the Performer pretty much alone. Ford in the early 1970s actually put a small runner manifold on a big ported head and made more horsepower than with a straight same diameter runner on the 429 cu engine. This was for a street moter, not a racer. Did you know the Performer really has no performance advantage over the stock 4 bbl manifold other then saving weight. A better choice for the small Ford would be the Weiand Stealth manifold, still a 180 degree manifold with much larger and better designed runners. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[av8]

Mike -- Looks like I made a good choice with the compromise runner match -- maybe even better than I imagined!

The Edelbrock Performer manifold wouldn't have been my choice; it's what I was given to work with. The casting quality is poor with very rough external finish and just-okay finish inside the runners. The runner outlets are unevenly shaped and sized and nowhere close to the inlets in the heads. I scarcely opened up the intakes, but had to do some significant material removal to get the manifold runners to mimic the shape of the runners in the heads, although not matching them for sizw.That the Edelbrock Performer for the 351W is no better than the stock manifold wouldn't surprise as much as hearing that it's as good as the stocker.

I've had good results with Weiand manifolds on Chevys, and commend their casting quality. The very best I've seen, including Chevy's own Bowtie castings, are Holleys. My personal favorite for the SBC is the Holley Z28 -- high-rise, dual-plane, square-bore, and quality that looks as though it's diecast. Best of all it works as good as it looks, with good bottom end, excellent mid range, and it keeps working strong into the 7K range.

Holleys haven't sold as well as the more-popular aftermarket manifolds, owing as much to Holley's higher prices and low interest by the hobbyist magazines -- where the other aftermarket guys are spending big bucks.

Once again, Mike, thank you so much for your guidance. I feel like I've been hanging out with a good pal who's willingly shared his experience and and knowledge with a fellow hot rodder. Good on ya, pal.

Mike

[Pigiron]

Mike, Thanks for the kind words. If you ever come to Montana you are more than welcome to stop in and see my humble shop. I like your style and grace. I don't post much on the HAMB but I do like to help out when I feel I can. I think its neat when a dumb 'ol Montana boy can help you California Kats out! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif We do have alot of carnuts in cowboyland and some pretty serious machinery in the land of cow poop and gravel roam the highways and dragstrips. I love your book and thank you for your friendship.