View Full Version : Saginaw 4 speed


62 Falcon Gasser
08-17-2007, 05:35 PM
Anyone ever used one in a mild 400 horse application? Are they weak? Good or bad for a drag racing manual trans?

jerry
08-17-2007, 05:43 PM
A muncie or T-10 will shift better and hold the horsepower. I've got a sginaw cluster gear with the 2nd gear gone, looks like a used corn cob.


jery

squirrel
08-17-2007, 05:54 PM
saginaw will hold up in a 400 hp application if you aren't planning on drag racing it, and you drive sanely on the street. You can tear them up...or you can make them live... how you drive it has a lot to do with what happens

GassersGarage
08-17-2007, 05:59 PM
Crummy trans, heavy and weak and the shifter mounts are terrible.

Irish Dan
08-17-2007, 06:10 PM
Clunky bunky boxes! It's hell to try to speed shift one of those 90 pound monsters! Get a real box;....Muncie, top-loader Ford, Borg Warner T-10, etc;

zman
08-17-2007, 06:41 PM
Crummy trans, heavy and weak and the shifter mounts are terrible.

Clunky bunky boxes! It's hell to try to speed shift one of those 90 pound monsters! Get a real box;....Muncie, top-loader Ford, Borg Warner T-10, etc;


Awww come on guys they're not that bad.... they're ok for street, I wouldn't drag race one though. they are super great for swapping out that 3 speed in old GM stuff....

RichFox
08-17-2007, 06:45 PM
I have been using one on the salt and on the street for years. Never dragged it though.

squirrel
08-17-2007, 06:56 PM
I did drag race a saginaw, it lasted a few months before 2nd got to grinding into gear... that's in a heavy vehicle with a mild big block

budd
08-17-2007, 07:38 PM
saginaw car trans shifts fine, and the best part is you can pick them up cheap, i'm running a sag. 3 speed and would like to pickup a 3 speed with overdrive and a 4 speed and make a 5 speed OD with them. 90lbs i dont think so, maybe a truck sag. would weigh that much.

Shifty Shifterton
08-17-2007, 08:54 PM
Saginaw is a weak piece of shit, plain and simple. Go dumping the clutch in a 3000lb+ car and it'll fail once a summer, even with the larger input bearings on a "V8" unit. 406 or 383 in a falcon gasser, might as well just put a diaper on it so you're not constantly oiling down the street or track.

DON'T EVER BUILD A CAR AROUND A SAGINAW. And if you do, then you deserve to deal with the repercussions. Don't say you weren't warned. Anybody who says they're OK isn't using them hard, or has that one in a thousand transmission that won't fail. Guarantee you won't have their luck.

And saginaw is a cast iron case, so they are heavy pieces of shit, in addition to being weak pieces of shit. But hey, they're cheap. Don't know what else good to say bout em

fergenboysinc
08-17-2007, 09:02 PM
I got one in my big block (very OT) for here vett. Its tubbed and has a street radial, wanna go for a lame ride, i have never posted a vid so bear with me. BTW I say go for it on the trans Ive had very good luck with them and my uncle had a mid 12 sec. 65 Chevelle with slicks and he beat that pretty hard. Never mind on the vid... cant make it work:confused:

1oldrat
08-17-2007, 09:07 PM
I have one I put in my big block pickup after I knocked first gear out of the muncie.It works good.I've only beat it a little but it shifts great.It has a competion plus shifter on it.I bought it at a swap for 100.00 with the shifter.It's taken more than the muncie did.But the muncie shifts nicer.I have had all of them and the muncie m22 is my favorite.The saginaw will work.I know an old guy that swears by saginaws he likes the heavy cast iron ones.Go for it

GMC BUBBA
08-17-2007, 09:10 PM
I had one that came in a 67 Big block chevelle ( i bought it new) . beat the hell out of it, slicks etc for years , never broke.
Traded car in for a 70 Nova ss muncie car , broke the trans first week i owned it.
I use one now in a 322 ci gmc model a.
Like a couple others said anything can be broken.
Muncie 900 plus bucks, saginaw 50-100 bucks ? Use the saginaw!

teddyp
08-17-2007, 09:58 PM
what year s did saginaw come with alum. casting?

choprods
08-17-2007, 10:04 PM
Never was a worse trans than a Muncie....synchronizers were total shit-always grinding or broke...
I have some Saginaws and I dont act an idiot with them and they are fine [with a better Hurst shifter].
Id say in a light car you can get by....al these "racer" wannabees just have to have what the other kids are using.

dave lewis
08-17-2007, 10:05 PM
none ! all sag's are cast iron.. and we eat em for lunch on the dirt track....but... yeah, try and find a muncie that is not priced like 24 k gold or broken all to heck ! so, we use the sag's and replace often...
dave :D

Dirty2
08-17-2007, 10:32 PM
I always seem to start out with a saginaw and end up with a S T10.

budd
08-17-2007, 11:44 PM
i have two truck muncies and i plan on running one of them in my 28 chevy, i wont be draging it but i'm sure i wont be blowing it doing a few burnouts, yes i have to put a slip joint in the driveshaft, yes it weighs 90lbs, but it comes with a nice tall shifter and that sweet crusher whine.

Rodshop
08-18-2007, 12:01 AM
Guess I drive like an idiot :rolleyes:- I ran a Saginaw for a while- tore out 1st gear (admittedly being an idiot) so rebuilt it with new gears and then took out third several weeks later on a hard shift. That is behind a 401 nailhead in a 2700 lbs car with (at that time) a 2.75 posi. Now have a Muncie. It always shifted well and just did not hold up for how I want to drive from time to time.
Rodshop

Toymaker
08-18-2007, 01:07 AM
I've been running Saginaws for 5 years behind my small block Ford (350 hp maybe) in a 3000 lb car that launches at 5000 rpm with slicks and runs 11.60 - 70's. They only last me about half a season with the failure being the synchronizer teeth on 3rd and 4th gear. I have crash boxed all of them and have never hurt 1st or 2nd (with the exception of the syncronizer hub inserts) but I finally stepped up and bought a really nice ST-10 ( 400.00 on Evil Bay) because even with the Saginaws being cheap I was spending a great deal of time & money repairing & modifying them. If your just going to cruise I'd say it would last, BUT if your going to punish it I'd reccommend a Super T-10.

Atwater Mike
08-18-2007, 01:32 AM
Anyone ever used one in a mild 400 horse application? Are they weak? Good or bad for a drag racing manual trans?


There is a kit you can buy to upgrade the endplay bushings. Disassemble tranny and have some minimal machine work done. Replace bushings with Torrington bearing kit. Very effective, low buck. Makes it shift and last. Not too sure about 400 HP, though...Good Fix, otherwise

zman
08-18-2007, 07:16 AM
Anybody who says they're OK isn't using them hard, or has that one in a thousand transmission that won't fail. Guarantee you won't have their luck.


or maybe they know how to shift and what the limitations of the car are.:D

tomslik
08-18-2007, 08:55 AM
you guys with the saginaws could just ship 'em to me.....
wouldn't want those heavy old things taking up your valuble shop space;)

Shifty Shifterton
08-18-2007, 09:18 AM
or maybe they know how to shift and what the limitations of the car are.:D

Hot rods are about finding the limitations, and removing them so it can be run even harder. If you can't pop the clutch or speed shift your hot rod, you're not hot rodding, you're posing.

We are talking about a falcon gasser who's owner has been asking about 383s and 406s that are gonna make 420+ ft-lbs. My experience is a saginaw lasts a couple months in that scenario, and if it wheelhops, it's lifespan will likely be measured in days or weeks. I totally respect Linders' opinion/experience on the previous page, and he's a sharp guy. But my experiences couldn't be any more different, must've broken a dozen of those junk bastards behind mild small blocks.

Good luck with your saginaw, I suspect you'll need it.

zman
08-18-2007, 01:53 PM
Hot rods are about finding the limitations, and removing them so it can be run even harder. If you can't pop the clutch or speed shift your hot rod, you're not hot rodding, you're posing.

We are talking about a falcon gasser who's owner has been asking about 383s and 406s that are gonna make 420+ ft-lbs. My experience is a saginaw lasts a couple months in that scenario, and if it wheelhops, it's lifespan will likely be measured in days or weeks. I totally respect Linders' opinion/experience on the previous page, and he's a sharp guy. But my experiences couldn't be any more different, must've broken a dozen of those junk bastards behind mild small blocks.

Good luck with your saginaw, I suspect you'll need it.

Uhhh... you're calling anyone a poser then mention it's a gasser. Dude gassers are nothing but posing, period. :eek::eek::eek:

Luck, well I don't need it, I run Saginaws where they are aren't a problem.

Lee Martin
08-20-2007, 09:19 AM
I ran a 4-speed Saginaw behind a flathead for years.....it wasn't a bad transmission for that sort of power.

Anything more than 200 - 250 hp though and I'd recommend a Muncie or Borg Warner. I just dropped $800 on a Super T-10 for a nailhead build. Not cheap, but at least I won't have to worry about grenading gears.

-Lee
www.atomicpinup.com

Groucho
08-20-2007, 09:27 AM
A BIG factor is which one you use. If you get one from a Vega for instance, it has a very low 1st gear (around 3.20 or deeper). The drive gear is so small, it sacrifices surface area, making it weak. Otherwise, they're just as tough as most the others.

Saginaw 4 Speed-lines on input shaft

1st 2nd 3rd 4th
No Lines 2.84 2.01 1.35 1.00
1 Line 2.54 1.80 1.44 1.00
2 Lines 3.11 2.20 1.47 1.00
3 Lines 3.50 2.47 1.65 1.00

tomslik
08-20-2007, 01:26 PM
I ran a 4-speed Saginaw behind a flathead for years.....it wasn't a bad transmission for that sort of power.

Anything more than 200 - 250 hp though and I'd recommend a Muncie or Borg Warner. I just dropped $800 on a Super T-10 for a nailhead build. Not cheap, but at least I won't have to worry about grenading gears.

-Lee
www.atomicpinup.com

wanna bet?
can't tell ya how many muncies i've took the cluster gears out of screwing around....;)

Lee Martin
08-20-2007, 01:40 PM
wanna bet?
can't tell ya how many muncies i've took the cluster gears out of screwing around....;)

Even M22's?

tomslik
08-20-2007, 06:27 PM
Even M22's?

why, do you think you CAN'T break 'em?

hey, just for the record, i never had a problem with muncies under full power, just short-shifting on the street....
M22's were about 2 years old when i was doing all this and to my knowlege, only 1 guy in town (small town NE) had one.
in an LS6 chevelle.....
but he was a big sucker that LITTERALLY would snap off a hurst shifter.
not the mount, the lever....

now, i have NO experience with t-10's or super t-10s so if somebody wants to eddykate me.....

HEATHEN
08-20-2007, 07:11 PM
When it comes to four speeds, I've seen them ALL lying on someone's garage floor in a pile of broken teeth and a puddle of what looks like valve lapping compound. I know that Saginaws are below Muncies on both the "strength" and "coolness" charts, but the fact remains that you can bring home a six pack of Saginaws for the price of one Muncie that's "ready to go" (according to the guy at the swap meet that really wants to sell it to you). You can break any four speed if you apply yourself.

TagMan
08-20-2007, 07:30 PM
"Uhhh... you're calling anyone a poser then mention it's a gasser. Dude gassers are nothing but posing, period. :eek::eek::eek:"

"Dude" ??? "Dude" ??? Isn't "Dude" kind of a poser word that prepubescent kids or gangstas in the hood USED to use???? :rolleyes: :D

With all due respects, especially if you are the ultimate authority on poser-ism, but I kinda recall gassers becomming popular in the early 60's and reaching the end of their time when you were about 10-years old (1975). Maybe you should do some reading up on the gasser era before calling gasser builders & owners posers. They're just as authentic a piece of hot rod history as coupes or tail draggers......or maybe everybody building a '49 Merc or a '32 coupe today are posers, too.

Sorry for the rant and continuing to take the thread off-topic, but hey, it'll get your post count up. I usually try not to add to some of the crap replies - guess you just hit a nerve........

And for the record, no, I don't have a gasser.

Groucho
08-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Thanks. I'm glad someone addressed this one. When i first saw it, i thought it was so fucking ignorant that it wasn't even worthy of a response"Uhhh... you're calling anyone a poser then mention it's a gasser. Dude gassers are nothing but posing, period. :eek::eek::eek:"

"Dude" ??? "Dude" ??? Isn't "Dude" kind of a poser word that prepubescent kids or gangstas in the hood USED to use???? :rolleyes: :D

With all due respects, especially if you are the ultimate authority on poser-ism, but I kinda recall gassers becomming popular in the early 60's and reaching the end of their time when you were about 10-years old (1975). Maybe you should do some reading up on the gasser era before calling gasser builders & owners posers. They're just as authentic a piece of hot rod history as coupes or tail draggers......or maybe everybody building a '49 Merc or a '32 coupe today are posers, too.

Sorry for the rant and continuing to take the thread off-topic, but hey, it'll get your post count up. I usually try not to add to some of the crap replies - guess you just hit a nerve........

And for the record, no, I don't have a gasser.

zman
08-20-2007, 08:06 PM
"Uhhh... you're calling anyone a poser then mention it's a gasser. Dude gassers are nothing but posing, period. :eek::eek::eek:"

"Dude" ??? "Dude" ??? Isn't "Dude" kind of a poser word that prepubescent kids or gangstas in the hood USED to use???? :rolleyes: :D

With all due respects, especially if you are the ultimate authority on poser-ism, but I kinda recall gassers becomming popular in the early 60's and reaching the end of their time when you were about 10-years old (1975). Maybe you should do some reading up on the gasser era before calling gasser builders & owners posers. They're just as authentic a piece of hot rod history as coupes or tail draggers......or maybe everybody building a '49 Merc or a '32 coupe today are posers, too.

Sorry for the rant and continuing to take the thread off-topic, but hey, it'll get your post count up. I usually try not to add to some of the crap replies - guess you just hit a nerve........

And for the record, no, I don't have a gasser.

Thanks. I'm glad someone addressed this one. When i first saw it, i thought it was so fucking ignorant that it wasn't even worthy of a response


Oh come on, a gasser these days is all about look at me, if you guys were actually worried about going fast, it wouldn't be in a gasser. A gasser today is purely for looks. Hence my comment complete with emoticons... Yes I used the emoticon to show that I was trying to get a response. But then I guess you guys are to busy taking yourselves way to seriously... :p :p :p

Groucho
08-20-2007, 08:40 PM
So, what you're saying is, you can't like the look of a Gasser, AND combine it with speed? If me and my friends LOVE the Gasser look, but want to go thrashing, we need to build something else? Does all this sound as dumb to you as it does to me? Me and friends took 13 cars to abandoned El Toro air force base for a photo shoot for Hot Rod Magazine a while back. Novas, 55's, Willys, Vette, 37 Chevy, etc. All looking like traditional 60's, nose up Drag Cars. We raced eachother on our own 2 mile strip for almost 3 hours. Paul broke the rods in his tunnel rammed Rat in his Straight axle Nova, while Rick blew the clutch out the fork hole in his scattersheild in his blown small block straight axle 37 Chevy. Big FUN! And i don't recall anyone calling or suggesting, hey "look at me", as you put it. Also, you'll see most those 13 cars almost every Thursday night running at Irwindale Drag Strip.Oh come on, a gasser these days is all about look at me, if you guys were actually worried about going fast, it wouldn't be in a gasser. A gasser today is purely for looks. Hence my comment complete with emoticons... Yes I used the emoticon to show that I was trying to get a response. But then I guess you guys are to busy taking yourselves way to seriously...

zman
08-20-2007, 09:03 PM
So, what you're saying is, you can't like the look of a Gasser, AND combine it with speed? If me and my friends LOVE the Gasser look, but want to go thrashing, we need to build something else? Does all this sound as dumb to you as it does to me? Me and friends took 13 cars to abandoned El Toro air force base for a photo shoot for Hot Rod Magazine a while back. Novas, 55's, Willys, Vette, 37 Chevy, etc. All looking like traditional 60's, nose up Drag Cars. We raced eachother on our own 2 mile strip for almost 3 hours. Paul broke the rods in his tunnel rammed Rat in his Straight axle Nova, while Rick blew the clutch out the fork hole in his scattersheild in his blown small block straight axle 37 Chevy. Big FUN! And i don't recall anyone calling or suggesting, hey "look at me", as you put it. Also, you'll see most those 13 cars almost every Thursday night running at Irwindale Drag Strip.

Lighten up Francis... look at the emoticon... You know these things...

:p ;) :D :o :) :( :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :eek:

They are meant to show that there is more to the post than just the words. Like sarcasm, or sticking your tongue out... You guys sure do get all twisted about some dumb shit. So get over yourself already...
:D:D:D

Shifty Shifterton
08-20-2007, 09:09 PM
So get over yourself already...

You're a dipshit ;)

See, I used an emoticon, so no harm no foul.

Gassers rule

Groucho
08-20-2007, 09:10 PM
I'm not getting twisted about anything at all. I just responded to your nonsense (with or without those emoticons). Get over myself? WTF does that mean? Francis? You're the one with all the colorful icons. Peace out, i got work to doLighten up Francis... look at the emoticon... You know these things...

:p ;) :D :o :) :( :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :eek:

They are meant to show that there is more to the post than just the words. Like sarcasm, or sticking your tongue out... You guys sure do get all twisted about some dumb shit. So get over yourself already...
:D:D:D

zman
08-20-2007, 09:18 PM
IGet over myself? WTF does that mean? Francis?

Exactly what it sounds like, you get all worked up and get and attitude just like you have on so many other threads, Paso comes to mind for one. It means you take yourself WAY too seriously, easy enough to understand.

As for the Francis thing, it'a quote from the movie Stripes with Bill Murray. But then again you'd have to have a sense of humor to get it....

You're a dipshit ;)

See, I used an emoticon, so no harm no foul.

Gassers rule

If you say so it's your opinion, personally I don't see the hoopla over gassers. I understand what they did back in the day and can appreciate the historic significance, but I think they drive like shit, just like a car that's too low...

Groucho
08-20-2007, 10:02 PM
Of course this is all OPINION. The car in your avatar doesn't appear to have that "Cadillac" ride either. My Gasser actually rode pretty good. Drove it 500 miles round trip to Paso, 250 round trip to the March Meet, and it ran bottom 12's through the muff's with 3.50 gears. I'm NOT trying to "sell" you on the idea of Gassers, and it is an inanimate object, so i sure don't care if anyone said it was dumb/junk, or whatever. And maybe without the icons my words get lost. But it seemed to me (another opinion) that your words were dumb to me. To say you can't/shouldn't mix the Gasser "look" and power/speed/quickness, or however your particular wording was. Now, back to the saginaw, good trans, just don't use the really low geared ones as i stated earlier personally I don't see the hoopla over gassers, but I think they drive like shit, just like a car that's too low...

zman
08-20-2007, 10:02 PM
Now, back to the saginaw, good trans, just don't use the really low geared ones as i stated earlier

We agree on that much. Especially when I can get a Saginaw for $100-200 and Muncies and T-10's are close to $1k

tomslik
08-21-2007, 04:22 AM
hey, while you guys are argueing about whether gassers are cool or not i'm gonna throw this into the pile, seems to me that somebody changed the mainshaft in the 4 speed with a 3 speed with OD and built a 4 speed with OD.
just a saginaw thing though...
never tried it but i always thought it was a cool idea...