CHASSIS, Banjo rear...open drive conversion question????

[skipstitch]

So, I'm gatherin' parts for the next project. I have a '48 banjo rear...Gonna run a flathead with a T-5 behind it(I think). Anyway, been diggin' around the parts pile and also have a '50 Pick-up rear end. The front of that center section looks like it would bolt to the banjo/torque tube... Aside from buyin' a new conversion to do this...how can it be done using old parts??? Seems to me other guys have done it.... Any help would be great!

[dusty]

Thats a good one skip. Ive got the same setup and have been wondering the same as I refuse to fork over the $265. for the conversion kit. I kept the torque tube and hacked off about 6" forward of the flange. I also kept the slip joint deal that attaches the drive line to the rear in hopes that the local driveshaft shop has a weld on flange the exact size as the od of the joint. Then I was planning on finding a short piece of large thickness tubing that would fit the id of the torque tube piece and trying to match a seal to that id and the od of the slip joint. Thats basically what the conversion kit is except its nice shiny billet. Guess thats where the extra $200. comes from in the $265 price tag!

[skipstitch]

Gotta agree with the $$$$ Dusty... I'm savin' my pennies for other stuff I need. I figure the seals would be the easiest part to locate...my NAPA guy loves a challenge!!!

[manyolcars]

They say to take the open drive conversion off of a 42 or 46 pickup.

[Bruce Lancaster]

The '42-47 pickup banjo swap is certainly the easiest and likely the cheapest, if you can find one. You really need the whole banjo and R&P, as the pinion gear shaft is different from passenger. Examine condition and ratio (most are 3.78 or 4.11) carefully before purchasing--new gears for this rear are scarce.

[cornfieldrodder]

I'm doin' the same thing. The torque tube will be cut, a seal flange will be made on the ol' lathe and welded into the tube. The yoke should be available through a drive shaft shop or Berry Bearing. Procuring the yoke first, then matching an easily available seal next would be wise since the flange has to be fabbed anyhow. thats just my way, of course.

[fuel pump]

Hey Shawn,
Are you going to be at Indy?

[Unkl Ian]

Talk to Smokey.He did it without spending big bucks.

[skipstitch]

Thanks for the info guys... I know a guy who's doin' a '47 truck...I'll have to see if he got rid of the rearend yet...

Fuelpump...yeah, we'll be at Indy...but it looks like only for Saturday. The weekend before we're hittin' the KOA Double Date in Kentucky. Gonna try to sell some issues of REV there. Have had a hell of a time gettin' the book back from the printers this time around!!! BTW thanks for the color wheel you e-mailed me. It'll come in handy around the shop when helping customers understand why orange interior doesn't work well in a purple car! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Donzie]

No orange with purple?!? DAMN, now I gotta re-think my color scheme. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
DAMN, now I gotta re-think my color scheme.

[/ QUOTE ] Pink and Green would be a dramatic choice. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Smokey]

Unkl Ian was right. I made mine setup fairly inexpensive. $20 bucks more or less. I came up with this because I wanted to mate up my flathead and 3 speed O.D. open tranny to a banjo rear. But no way was I going to spring for the after market conversion.

Sorry if this gets a little long winded but I am not the best at explaining things without babbling.

The only other pieces you need in addition to your enclosed banjo rear end is a flange from a '91 Ford 250 pickup rear end, 4"x4"x 1/2" thick piece of aluminum, and a Chicago Rawhide seal part number 14247 (about $4).
This was all an experiment when I was doing it so I never took step by step photos but I will try to explain this as best as I can.
You will need the 6 spline (my rear was a '46) drive shaft coupler off the rear and only a few inches of the rear end of the torque tube. First you need to take the '91 ford flange and mount it in the lathe by holding it on the seal surface, back side of the flange. You then bore out the center to enlarge it to where the drive shaft coupler is a press fit into it. But before you press in the coupler you need to cut off the seal part of the '91 ford flange. You don't need it or want it on. But it is the best way to index it in the lathe to bore true to center. The coupler is then welded to the flange and you also need to weld a small cap on the front side of said flange to seal off the drive shaft coupler so the rear oil doesn't migrate out.. I believe I also shortened the coupler a little before it was welded in cause it was plenty long for the flange. Cut it on the forward side though and don't mess with the end that slides onto the pinion.

Once that assembly is made, slide it onto the pinion on the rear and put the pin back in. Next you will cut the torque tube to use as the seal housing. You measure from where it bolts on to the pumpkin to just shy of the pin, (the pin that holds the coupler to the pinion) and allowing a 1/4" or so for the plate that holds the seal. I cut my torque tube to the rough length with a hacksaw and then put it in the lathe to true it up.

Next you will make the plate or cover to hold the seal. Take your 1/2" piece of aluminum and turn round with a lip so that it is a good tight fit in the torque tube and secure it from the outside with 3 or four metal screws. I put a little blue glue on it too just to make sure it was oil tight as possible. Now you have a short section of torque tube with an aluminum cap on it. Mount it, as a unit, back in the lathe and bore out the center for the coupler clearance and to hold the seal (press fit in).
One note about mounting it in the lathe. The inside of the torque tube is machined and gives you a true surface to got off of. And by boring the center after the housing is together you have a pretty good chance of being on center with your seal. I wouldn't trust the outside of the torque tube for nothing.

As I said, the seal is press fit into the housing and seals against the drive shaft coupler. You will want the outside of the coupler polished smooth so it doesn't wear out your seal.

With the housing done and seal in place bolt it on the rear end, slide your flange on, and put the pin in. To hold the pin in place but still be able to take it out I welded a nut on each side over the hole and put in a set screw.

Well that is basically it. Much harder to write out or read than it is to do.

As a few side notes. I used the '91 ford 250 truck flange because it looked to have plenty of meat to do this and I bought it off Ebay for like $5.00. I am sure there are other flanges that would work but I know this one worked. I also used this arrangement because I too looked for that elusive 6 spline flange at farm supply stores and places that sold pto stuff but I think you will fine that even the close ones are a few thousands too big and I think you need a no slop, perfect fit. Jaguar has a 6 spline but isn't close, as with MoPar stuff if memory serves me correctly.

So far it is working fine and seams quite strong or at least I haven't broken it yet. I have only one tiny leak around the seal but I don't think I polished the surface of the coupler well enough. Anyway for what I saved in $ and the sense of accomplishment, I can live with a little leak. This is an extremely busy time of the year for me and I will be gone for a few days again but I will check back and if I can answer any specific questions I will be happy too.

Smokey

Here's the only photo I could find of it at the moment. It was from when I was first making it. Hopefully it will help you to understand what I was talking about. Trust me, It is not as shitty looking as the photo makes it out to be.
http://www.lehighvalleyspinwheels.com/odbanjo.jpg

[atch]

smokey,

thanx for sharing this explanation and the picture. i was pretty sure that there was a way to do this without spending the $275 or so at speedy bill's place for his billet adapter.

this is another example of why i love the hamb so much.

i'm now up to 207 msword files of stuff i've copied and saved. if i knew how to put this into a book it'd be the most popular "how to" book on hot rods ever. 'course that'll never happen, but i've got it for my use, anyway. and i couldn't have bought this information all at one place anywhere on the planet.

this needs to go to tech-o-matic.

[skipstitch]

Smokey, THANKS!!! I'm printin' this as we "speak". I may pick yer brain as I get knee deep into it... I knew there had to be some way to accomplish this with out dialin' 1-800... Stitch