Tulsa results

[Ron Golden]

Guys,

Would someone please post the results (E.T. & MPH) everyone runs at Tulsa. Pictures also if available.

Thanks, Ron

[Rand Man]

Speed Merchants got their rail back together around 4:00PM. We laid some rubber in the parking lot at tthe shop. That was fun to see it run again. Sorry we missed the race.

[nailhead mike]

The great Race,

Six cars raced till 1PM and we all had a great time. Congrats to Hiney for organizing and running a smooth program at the same time he was kicking everyones butt. The winner and still champion turned a new best E.T. of 12.30 to eleminate the Ramrods in the final race of the evening.

The Ramrods finished with second place points, the Okie Outlaw came in third and Hiney will have to fill in the rest. The Red Baron had hard luck with mechanical trouble after turning in a solid 12.90 early in the afternoon.

If you weren't there you missed a great race!

[mudflap261]

GOOD MORNING ALL this is a partial report Hindman has printout of each round speeds ets 60 ft times of each car will post mon /tues crooked six ran low 14s JOE HAMBY first time out ran mid 15s with a bone stock slant 6 DAVE LEWIS RED BARON GMC ran 12/90s until a broken valve spring sidelined him RAMRODS ran 12/80s low 13s 105 best speed OKIE OUTLAW the new flat head car came off the trailer with a 12/80 100 + WITH 60 FT OF 1.88 THEIR BEST RUN WAS 12.77 60FT 1.77 102 MPH The HORNET came off the trailer with a 12.347 60 ft 1.666 102.16 12.59 6oft 1.716 101.45 12.427 60ft 1.722 102.69 last run 12.301 6o ft1.684 103.10 why the good 60 ft lots vht this was a bought in show fuel /alcohol dragasters funny cars /pro stock /pro comp cars lots of rubber was laid down MR.MAC took lots of photos







a broken

[Rand Man]

So when's the next race?

[Drewfus]

photo's?

Please,

Drewfus:D

[Ron Golden]

Hiney,

Congrats on your win at Tulsa.

It sounds like everyone had a great time.

Ron

[lindross]

That's impressive seeing that many cars in the 12's. Good job guys... well except that one with the auto. :p :D

[3wLarry]

...here's a few...

[64 DODGE 440]

Great to see some of the cars in action. It gives incentive to work on ours, for those of us who are just starting the build process.

[Drewfus]

That's great to see. As pointed out, those times are impressive, it certainly illustrates what kind of potential there is with these cars without the need for 'rocket science' or going financially crazy, well done.

Sweet photo's Larry.

Cheers,

Drewfus

[Rand Man]

Thanks for posting the photos Larry. I want to know more about the new flathead car. Looks like it's put together well. Who are the owners?

[Mr. Mac]

Thanks for posting the photos Larry. I want to know more about the new flathead car. Looks like it's put together well. Who are the owners?
Im not Larry but I am the one that shot the pics.:D The new flatty car is owned by nailhead mike and yes it is a very well thought out and well built car. Once he gets the bugs out we better watch out.

[QQMOON]

Great pics and times good to see some new cars coming out play

[nailhead mike]

Im not Larry but I am the one that shot the pics.:D The new flatty car is owned by nailhead mike and yes it is a very well thought out and well built car. Once he gets the bugs out we better watch out.

Ted, thanks for the kind words about the Outlaw. There are two other guys with me in this fun little car. Jim Jones worked with me through the entire build and Howard Tribbey( Howard's Flatheads in Terlton, OK ) loaned us the motor and several other parts on the car. When I learn how to cut an .04 light like Kenny we might be more competitive.

See you at the track.

[Rand Man]

Hey Mike, what carb are you running? Looks like a Holley double pumper to me.

[nailhead mike]

You're correct, it's a Holley D/P 650 cfm. Seems to work okay so far.

[Rand Man]

So why aren't you running an era specific carb?

[ford6man27]

Are the rules at Tulsa pretty much run what you brung? I see that you can run an auto. trans. and a 650 double pumper carb. I have the engine out of my vintage dirt car and have been thinking about building a HA/GR if I can use this engine. It is a 1965 which I know is 3 years past your cut off date but that shouldn't be a problem If you can run the carb and auto trans. The engine I want to use is a 300 cu. in. ford, 14 to 1 comp. with a 750 Demon alcahol carb. Please let me know if I can run this engine at Tulsa
Andy

[Joe Hamby]

Gentlmen, last night I watched a AA/Fuel dragster run 325.38 MPH, and a lot of funny cars. Do you remember the first funny cars, they were altered wheel base supper stock's, they were a lot of fun to watch, but they evalved into a AA/Fuel dragster with a carbon fiber body, that class sure changed a lot. Please don't let this class. HA/GR change into something else, if you want to run a lot faster motor, slicks, blowers, etc, and have this type of look, then just build an altered, and do it all your way, I still have 5 and a half in wheels, and don't plan to change. Joe

[Godzilla]

My guess is that they are just sorting their car out. I read a post a while back saying that the engine they are running is a test mule...used while they have their racing engine built.

I believe that it has been posted that all the HA/GR rules apply to the SDRA races with the exception of the auto trans deal...that is how I will be able to run Rodan with them....once I have it sorted out.

I am sure that Hiney can answer any other questions you have about the rules. Who knows, there may be some rule changes next year in either the HA/GR or SDRA to allow your power plant...but my understanding is that for now the current rules stand. Good luck if you decide to go ahead and build your car. Ron.

[recycler]

Joe, it's already happening. Your pleas are falling on deaf ears. "guidelines" don't work and racers will always push to go faster regardless of the consequences. Eating their young to feed their ego is the drag racer's nature.

Andy (ford6man27) The Tulsa series of races are Hiney's rules (his words) Ask him about your 6 cyl. He might let you run it. I'd love to see you build a car with that motor.

The HA/GR rules are only going to apply to the HAMB drags. Randy and I (Speed Merchants) will stick to HA/GR guidelines. We'll get beat alot at the Tulsa deal but it'll still be fun.

Brad

[ford6man27]

Brad,
If I build a car it will be wth the HA/GR rules, trans., period correct carbs and all. I was trying to point out just how crazy this whole deal has turned into. I have been racing vintage dirt cars for 7 years and know first hand how this is going to turn out. Over half of the cars I race with are modern race chassis with an old body on it. What is so crazy about it is that they will stand there and argue with you all day that the car is a vintage car. Body only does not make a car vintage.
Six inch tires alone does not make a HA/GR type car fit the picture of a period correct, spirit of the Bug dragster. If you cant stand going by the rules, don't ruin it for everyone else just go on and build an altered or some other faster class racer. I know, before you say anything that I don't have a horse in this race so I don't have a vote. Just saying if you want this deal to work, stick to the rules.
Andy

[Godzilla]

'A drag racers nature is to eat their young to feed their ego.'

Man...there must not be any drag racers on this forum. I am just wondering, is that a universal opinion of all drag racers...or just the drag racers that live in Arkansas?

[Ron Golden]

Hi Guys,

I agree that we need to stick to the HA/GR rules, even though Godzilla and I suggested a couple of changes regarding safety that didn't go over too well with the majority, I'll go along with the majority to keep the HA/GR as intended in the beginning.

However, I am going to build as fast a car as I have resourses and money at my disposal. If I never compete against another HA/GR car I still want to see just how fast I can go. If I could afford it I would build a moly chassis, 1000 pound, drop-dead killer HA/GR car. Not just to beat someone to the end of 1320 feet, but just to see what I was capable of building. Hell, if I wanted, I had a complete rolling, front engine chassis I could have built a BB Chevy for and ran in the mid 7's.

If I didn't have the resources available I'm sure I would have built a car with a stock engine and still had a blast. Mine may end up being pretty quick but that doesn't mean I'll have any more fun than everyone else....... I'll just be faster than some of the others.

By the way, if there's any way I can help anyone building a HA/GR car just give me a call. I'll even help you outrun me.

Ron

[recycler]

'A drag racers nature is to eat their young to feed their ego.'

Man...there must not be any drag racers on this forum. I am just wondering, is that a universal opinion of all drag racers...or just the drag racers that live in Arkansas?

I am not trying to get in a pissing contest with anyone. I was speaking of drag racers as a whole. Is the Arkansas question supposed to be some sort of a stab at me?

Think about how heads up classes evolve. Outlaw street cars, 10.5 cars, nostalgia top fuel (only thing nostalgia about em is where the motor is).
Change happens, envelopes are pushed, rules are changed, added or modified. I am simply stating the facts and anyone entering into a heads up class should be aware of what will happen over time.

This aint bracket racing boys(thank gawd), its real drag racing (hope it stays that way- no indexes)and it'll get intense. Doesn't mean it won't be fun, just might get expensive if ya wanna run with the top dawgs- especially in an "outlaw" group.

Now everybody hold hands and sing Kumbaya. He He He

[Godzilla]

I was just trying to understand the comment about drag racers. I know a lot of drag racers and none of them have an appetite for their young...what they do have an appetite for is making their car go quicker and faster. This seems to be a universal concept regardless of class designation.

Ego...man I just don't know anyone who drags races to feed their ego. The guys I know do it for the love of competition and the feeling you get when you build a car with your hands and it goes down the strip.

I think that it is great that those who want a purist car that follows all the HA/GR rules has at least one race a year to run their cars. With any luck Ryan will get more races organized. It is a great club project deal and I would have done one in a club if I belonged to one...but I don't. I am just a racer.

We all owe a big thanks to Hiney for putting together his SDRA deal in Tulsa. It means more exposure for these cars. I for one always hand out the rules for the HA/GR class. What the other guy builds is his business. Let him bring it on...I'll run him...and we will both have a ball. Ron.

[nailhead mike]

What difference does it make to you, I'm complying with the rules for our races and that includes automatics and and 4 barrel carbs. If I can't run at Mokan because I'm not "era specific" who cares. Why aren't you running an era specific nose on your car? I guess it just boils down to the fact that our racers are more concerned with racing than looks.

[Old6rodder]

Actually, gentlemen,

That reference to Funny Cars was rather apt. From their inception as amusing pre-last round break entertainment, through their inclusion as classes and up to their present state of affairs they do typify what can become of a new (or even new/old) idea. And that would even include their branch-off of the wheelstand exhibitions-cum-races that followed the very same course, though a markedly shorter eventual distance.
The question to me is what can we hope for in our HA/GR resurrection of a dormant type of drag racing (itself an extension of the HAMB drags concept). My fondest hope is that we can keep it the game it was intended to be.

I fully expect to see spin-offs, looser ruled variations, etc, come into being. Hell, I'd be surprised not to, and good on'em. Consider the evolutions of classes throughout automotive racing's history.
HA/GR as it's intended is hardly the world's cup of tea. Others can run it on a bit further and take its ideas to the next obvious level as, say an HA/GR '60 class, or HA/S(second level)R, or perhaps some entirely unique classification. It'd certainly attract its share of afficionados, and likely even some converts. Their problem would then be the same as ours is now, maintaining their original intent in the face of yet further divergences and factioning.

Two things come to mind that should help each of us in that same endeavour (both of which are already instituted loosely in HA/GR).

One, that the BUILDERS make and live by their own class rules. This keeps the controls and changes out of the hands of kibitzers and folks wanting something else. Their best option is to start their own preferred variation and devote their energies to that rather than trying to warp an existing class to their wants.

And two, a clearly stated intent of the class goals. This keeps the participants (and fascinated parties) well focused on the original points each class was intended to promote and enjoy.

With a reliance on these we can all enjoy what we want and promote those things to that segment of a race watching public bored with computerized competition little different than a full size video game.

Myself, I like having to "throw" the gears, "pedal" the hides, "work" the jugs and "feel" my way down the quarter, so HA/GR is for me, just the way she stands. And where I might I'll work to keep'er there.

It would indeed be fun to see a "next level" class added to the effort. As with my (two scale) train club the good natured in-fighting could be a hoot.



Sorry, went and waxed poetic yet again. Chide me if you must ........... it stands.

[Godzilla]

A personal observation:
The guys on the HAMB seem to me to be...by their very nature...the kind of guys who look at something mechanical and start thinking how it can be modified or personalized. We accept this and hold it in reverance. So why should the HA/GR deal be any different? (rhetorical question)

Just look at the HA/GR cars...they don't all look alike...they are all very different. HAMB guys embrace difference...they accept the concept even when in practice it does not appeal to them.

So why not embrace the differences...there is no money involved here. There is no fight for sponsorship...just a little basic idea at the core. They have all had the "spirit of the bug" in their mind when they built their car. So their concept is not the same as yours...and you do not like how it has turned out. SO WHAT. Do YOUR thing and let them do THEIRS. We can all be good HAMB guys and embrace a little mechanical self-expression. What is it gonna cost us. Ron.

[dabirdguy]

In my humble opinion:
Pushing the edges of the rules is what the game is about.
Pushing the NATURE of the rules is what makes folks upset.

We started an HA/GR car here in Cincinati under the existing rules to have FUN. With our flathead Merc I expect we will get throughly trounced by Bubba and those guys with their wild 6-bangers. I accept that.

Getting whooped by a guy in an auto trans who never misses a shift or a guy running a Holly 750 that takes the tuning issues out of the equation isn't what the game is about to me.

My PERSONAL expectations were that there would be a great time in getting this old stuff to work and stand up to the pounding a season of racing will give out. I exp-ected to run into guys with neat gear stashed away that brought it out for the joy of seeing it run again.

Glenn

[REJ]

Glenn, lets me and you set up a run at the drags and you can probably trounce me.
I built mine per the rules to run with guys that did the same thing. Sure, I am competitive, but rules were made to be followed. I know I will not have the fastest car there, but I am still going to be there to have fun. This is what this class is supposed to be, FUN.
Once you take one down the track, regardless how fast it is, have some fun.
Mine performed like crap this last weekend, but I had fun just running it down the track. The ET's were bad enough, I will not tell you.
One little hint, 60' times were in the 4-5 second range, I can probably run 60' faster than that.:D

[sgtmcd42]

Build a car by the ha/gr rules and it is an ha/gr car. If your car is not built to these rules and you post about it in an ha/gr forum, don't be surprised if you take a little shit over it.

That being said, this same topic seems to come up every 6 months or so. Give it a rest. build what you want and have fun with it when and where ever you can.

[nailhead mike]

On the subject of " era specific" the Holley web site shows the history of their carburetors. Their first modular carburetor (the 4150 series) came out in 1957 as standard equipment on the 1957 Ford Thunderbird. The 650 Holley I am running on The Outlaw is a model 4150. If that ain't era specific enough for you guys I'm going to run it anyway. Our engine doesn't know or care what carb we're running as long as it mixes air and gas in the right ratio.

The track owner in Tulsa loves our cars because they have created spectator interest and he is in the "entertainment" business. The paying spectators don't know or care what carbs or tranny's we are running, they just like seeing the "old Style" cars drag race heads up.

[Old6rodder]

Sure am glad this has no more legs than mere speculation. I do enjoy the "what if"s though.

Glenn's "great time in getting this old stuff to work" nails it for me.
It's the essence of my rather long winded soliloquy as well as pretty much the opinion of the rest of our team.

As yet I've heard no reason beyond "I don' wanna hafta shift or mess with an old carb" to change the class as it stands. But that's exactly the point of the class, having the fun of doing it the way it was done before those advances hit the track. Even the "modern" slant is still just an under square inline six. It's only true novelty was a long ram production intake, old news to the racing community of the time.

No one has yet addressed another eventuality of incrementally modernizing the class, that of keeping the cost down. The class is very near the roughly 12 second safety equipment break of most sanctioning bodies. The other side of that break is expensive (double loop cages with certs, tig only, full fire suits, etc.) for center steer cars. If we hope to keep it cheap and still maintain the possibility of getting it recognized we have no choice but to keep it above 12. Slush pumps, modern style carbs, etc. are no help there.

Honestly, if Geezerspeed just HAD to see anything pissed in, we'd go for an age change first. Our team would far prefer to do the work of pulling the slant and rebuilding with a '50s set-up rather than keep the slant and go to a Torqueflite (and I have two on the shelf, damn good trans. '62 push button in my daily).

Mostly we want it to just hold still so we can we have some fun. :D


Crap, I need to work on terse, missed two posts while composing.

[64 DODGE 440]

As Old6rodder put it quite well, "As yet I've heard no reason beyond "I don' wanna hafta shift or mess with an old carb" to change the class as it stands. But that's exactly the point of the class, having the fun of doing it the way it was done before those advances hit the track."

That sort of sums up my feelings on the matter. To me the HA/GR class is about racing and rodding "how it used to be", and sure, if the guys back then had the option of using our modern stuff to go faster, they would have jumped at the chance.......But the didn't and made the best of what technology was available and did quite well.

Even though there were some dual four barrel set ups running on the street, the carbs of choice were the good old Strombergs, and thats why there were lots of cars running them.

I'm not saying that we have to limit the class to Stromberg 97s or 84s, there are other good vintage carbs out there, but even if they made variants of the current Holley and Carter four barrels, before '62 they really don't fit in the spirit of the class. Hell, what's wrong with a GMC 6 running 5 Strombergs on a log. Somewhere in the archives I have pictures of that setup.

Personally, I'm planning on a home made long ram log on my Dodge Flathead 6, with multiple vintage carbs and being creative in the way it used to be.