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View Full Version : Uncharted territory...AMC power!!!


Fat Hack
09-25-2003, 12:36 AM
I've long wondered why you don't see many home-built rods sporting AMC V8s anywhere? Sure, they're kinda odd...and not the first choice that comes to mind for most of us...but they are reliable mills that can give you the added advantage of being different...WAY different in the rodding community!

These engines were put on the map after the Javelin and AMX came to be back in 1968. Mark Donahue and others had a short, but impressive run in Trans-Am competition at the wheel of these hot new pony cars from the Kenosha automaker, and they had no trouble out-running the hot shoes from Ford, GM and Mopar on several occasions! There were even a few AMCs campaigned in Pro Stock and Super Stock classes, and factory-offered goodies like cross-ram intakes are rare and highly prized artifacts today which recall those brief glory years for AMC!

But what about using these engines in a backyard hot rod project? Well, first you want to be sure of what you're looking at! Jeep used Buick 350 engines for a couple of years, so make sure that you're not trying to bolt up AMC speed parts to one of those! AMC V8 engines all share the same external dimensions, so aftermarket or factory performance parts such as distributors, cams, manifolds, headers and valve covers will fit anything from the little 290 up to the biggest of the breed...the 401! 304 and 360 cubic inch versions are perhaps the easiest to find, as they were used in thousands of passenger car and light truck applications over the years. The 401 was AMC's big gun, and is probably the most expensive and hardest to locate!

AMC engines have the distributor mounted in front at an angle, and once you start to work on one, you will recognize components from other automakers! Points type distributors will be GM units, right down to the "window" in the cap for adjusting the points with the engine running, while electronic ignitions will usually be Ford Duraspark (Doesntspark!) offerings. Most of these engines will have Ford two barrel carbs on them as well.

Looking to the aftermarket, Edelbrock still makes cam kits and intake manifolds for AMC V8s, with the Performer being the natural choice for a mild street motor. Over the years, Offy and Weiand made several different intakes for these engines as well, and they aren't that hard to find on e-bay or at swap meets even today. The old Torker intake worked really well on 390 and 401 engines with some mild head porting and a decent cam grind, but they are too much for a 304 or 290 unless you're running a really stout cam, higher compression and some steep gears! The 290 is a real winder, and will serve you best if built a little more radically than it's larger siblings...but the benefits of spending more money on a high revving little motor vs spending less on a larger mill with a broader powerband and more torque may need to be examined! Personally, I'd concentrate on a 304, 360 or 401 as they are the ones most AMC guys run. (Except for the guys using 290 and 390 selections in their 60s musclecar offerings, of course!).

I remember seeing a front engine dragster at Milan many years ago running an AMC 401, and what caught my eye right off the bat was the induction system. The guy had made his own fuel injections system out of an old low-rise dual quad manifold! It was crude as can be...using two giant throttle bodies...but it ran well enough at Wide Open Throttle to get him down the track quickly! Didn't idle worth a snot, but it did it's job! I talked to him most of that afternoon between runs, and he's an example of just how hard core the typical AMC guy is...they HAVE to be innovative and a bit...eccentric, since they're at a disadvantage against the other guys who have far more performance parts available to them!

Camshaft selection for a street/strip AMC engine should follow it's cubic inch size and intended rpm range. Milder for 304 and 360 engines which are good low to midrange performers, and more radical for 290s which need to rev, and for 390 and 401 examples that need to feed more cubes! If running an Edelbrock intake, then buying the matching cam kit for that intake is a good idea. More specific grinds are offered from Crane, and I've never been disappointed by the performance of a Crane grind, so I'd look to them if not using an Edelbrock kit.

Tranny choices get weird....AMC tended to use whatever they could get ahold of! Many used a Torqueflite variant for auto trannys, and Borg Warners were the favored 4-speed. However, most guys using an AMC in a performance vehicle tend to run a GM Turbo-Hydro, from my observations. Not a bad choice, being that they're strong and easy to build using shift kits and aftermarket stall converters. The guy with the dragster was using a highly modified Powerglide behind his injected 401. I like GM auto trannys more than Torqueflites, but that's just a personal preference based on cost and my own familiarity with the Turbos!

My sole AMC toy was a lime green Gremlin X with a 304 and a 3-speed on the floor! It was a homely little bomb, but a genuine 14 second car in bone stock form with a two barrel carb and single exhaust! Imagine that same engine and tranny with a mild cam and a four barrel and headers in a lightweight coupe or T-bucket chassis with better rear gears! (Okay, so I recurved the distributor, added an Accel coil and a chrome open element air cleaner...but the car was still impressively quick for an otherwise stock machine!)

I wish I had more in-depth technical data to pass along to y'all, but I've only owned the one AMC car...but it left a big enough impression on me that I will DEFINATELY keep one eye open for a good AMC V8 to use in a future project! I've talked to every AMC guy I ever encountered on cruise nights and at the track, and the above info is what I've gathered from them. Based on that advice, and on how well my own brief experiment with AMC power went..I have NO doubts that these engines can make great powerplants for open minded rodders, and that they'll give their rivals some stiff competition! Anyone with further information or experience to add, please feel free to chime in here!

fastcat
09-25-2003, 12:43 AM
There may be more spped parts available than you think as well. Aluminum cylinder heads are available from indy cylinder head, and I have heard info that edelbrock is under development of an aluminum cylinder head for these engines as well. The 401 AMC's already have steel connecting rods as well as a steel crankshaft, so they will take quite a bit of power. There are also a few parts houses that specialize in these engines. One in FL as well as one in CA. They have plenty of parts to help you in your power endevors.Shawn

flyin'eye
09-25-2003, 01:10 AM
In late 1970, the 290 became the 304, the 343 became the 360, and the 390 became the 401. This is also when the Torqueflite became available. The Torqueflite will not bolt up to earlier motors, although an adapter is available. The intake manifold bolt pattern was also slightly changed at that time, but most offenhauser intakes were made with slotted holes that allowed use on either version. Edelbrock intakes were not slotted, so there is a pre 70 version, and a post 70. Header flanges changed in 70 also.

OGNC
09-25-2003, 01:17 AM
Funny you should bring up AMC. My grandfather passed away recently and I ended up with my grandmothers old (1976) AMC Hornet. Funny thing is that nobody knew it was still around. It seems that my grandfather had the motor rebuilt, the interior redone and the paint re-done a few years after she had passed on and it had been sitting in his brother's garage. So within the next couple weeks I am going to be taking the train down to San Diego and driving home in a "restored" 1976 AMC hornet. Oh yeah, it is a red & white hatchback with a inline six and the license plate is OLIVE (my grandmother's name)

enjenjo
09-25-2003, 01:20 AM
The only problem using one in a old car, they are Looooong. Longer than even a Ford. Much modification to the firewall and X member is needed unless you stretch the front of the frame.

A good place to find 401s, International pickups, used them all through the 70's.

AssGasket
09-25-2003, 05:21 AM
i know a junkyard that has an AMC Rebel SST sitting in it, among other things....

I drive an AMC every day... well, kinda... more like an AM... Nash and Hudson became Rambler... In 1966, the "American" became it's own make... So, the name "Rambler" was around until '69, with the Classic, the Marlin, the Ambassador, and so on... the American was simply called that, even though mine is a '66 and it has the rambler "R" all over it... But yeah, 66... that's when "American Motors" started...

parts are out there, but they can be a BITCH to find... trust me... Personally, i like the inline sixes... those 232s and 199s are PERFECT for turbos... Plus, Clifford has plenty of shit for 'em.... 199's are torque-machines... plus, i think they have forged rods from the factory... Of course, i could be drunk/wrong/both...

trey
09-25-2003, 08:58 AM
id agree, its funny that you bring this up. my wifes uncle is a strong beliver in amc power. he had a jav i n high school, and remembers it as being very strong. now he is planning on doing a jav for bonneville. seems as though he would stand a chance, as not many people are running amc's. id like to see it happen.

trey

Bigums
09-25-2003, 09:30 AM
Jeep used the Buick 350 through '71. I've got a '70 Wagoneer with the Buick. 70's big Jeeps used the 360 and 401 with the TH400. I think the 401 was offered from '74 to '78.

In '80 Jeep switched over to the 727 tranny and that ran through the end of FSJ in '91.

For manual trannies, the T-18/T-18a was the most common, but some came with a T-176.

Hack: Thanks for posting all of these the last few days. I think its been interesting to look at all the different choices out there.

imfatdad
09-25-2003, 09:53 AM
There are a couple of really good boards on the net that have a great number of experienced and knowledgable AMC'ers contributing. Thanks Hack for bringing this topic up. Very strong and virtually bulletproof engines...

Curly
09-25-2003, 10:49 AM
Definetly an overlooked and underestimated engine IMO! Everyone remembers the AMX....they had to get that engine from somewhere. I think I remember a Javelin SST running around here in NE Ohio that was spanking some Chevys and Fords on the street and at the track.

flyin'eye
09-25-2003, 11:06 AM
before you think an AMC at Bonneville is a crazy idea, remember that Craig Breedlove ran Javelins there for many years. There should be lots of R&D info out there if you know where to look.

Mojo
09-25-2003, 11:12 AM
My uncle has a 69 AMX with a 390. The engine was built by a local (well, in WV) drag racer who specialized in AMC engines. He pulled out all the stops, and put together one of the most rowdy engines i've ever heard. The builder was estimating 500 honest horsepower, based on dynoed versions he's built before. My uncle got a 160mph radar'd speeding ticket in that thing...

Car ain't what she used to be though... the 390 is sitting in the garage with a busted bore, and it has a 304 in it just to try to get it back on the street... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

El Caballo
09-25-2003, 11:39 AM
Didn't James Bond jump one of those over a river in Thailand? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

DrJ
09-25-2003, 11:58 AM
I usta write service for AMC.
Yes they are a strong running engine
I made a bundle of money on commissions for replacing the timing covers on them engines when they rusted out in the coolant passages and dumped their radiators into the crank case.
I think the part was over $80.00 22 years ago.
Probably unobtanium now so watch for rust in the block and check that cover out in the colant passages when you have it apart for inspection, it's probably the weak link in the system.
Had a friend with one of them 401 powered Gremlins. It would light the wheels on command. She did a donut with it on the Pasadena freeway if I remember right, backed it into an under pass retaining wall in the process... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Brootal
09-25-2003, 08:04 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I usta write service for AMC.
Yes they are a strong running engine
I made a bundle of money on commissions for replacing the timing covers on them engines when they rusted out in the coolant passages and dumped their radiators into the crank case.
I think the part was over $80.00 22 years ago.


[/ QUOTE ]

You got that right Doc. My BRAND NEW $450 repro timing cover rusted out in around 12 months! Apparently I was using the wrong coolant. Yeah right!

Speaking from experience, I can definitely vouch for the little AMC 290 V8. Mine runs 307 Chev pistons which punches it out to around 309 cubes. It's got a set of 343 heads (2.02 and 1.6 valves STOCK!), a factory 4V and Edelbrock carb. Stock exhaust manifolds with twin 2" pipes.

That combo ran a best of 14.87 @ 93 MPH. Not too bad for a junkyard engine.

It's currentlty going through a (lengthy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif) rebuild and will end up with an E'brock Performer and a set of roller rockers. Hopefully it will go BETTER! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I guess this is as good an excuse as any to put another pic of my engine up. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/rumbler/offyamc2.jpg

... and of course the ubiquitous burnout shot. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/drags4.jpg

Best source for AMC stuff I have found is www.amcforum.net (http://www.amcforum.net)

wingnutz
09-25-2003, 10:09 PM
Since I came from the land of the "Kenosha Combines" I've got to see some of the "FASTEST" AMC's around!

The guys that worked in the performance group would take their creations out on the streets of Kenosha and Milwaukee.

I would see them at Great Lakes Dragway Racing "Rebels" Marlins, Gremlins, etc. ..."Kicken" everybodies Arses!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

My 73 6 cylinder Gremlin surprised a few mustang owners that had V8's! (and it surprised me when it would hook up!) Most of the time I'd just put on a smoke show! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

There's a big following around Wisconsin for AMC's!!

Mark

Blownolds
09-25-2003, 11:00 PM
I want to see someone build a bad to the bone '63 or so AMC Rambler American, the one with the round headlight bezels, as a pro-street deal. AMC powered, and maybe a torkflite tranny behind it. Nasty nasty! I remember seeing a '70 AMX on NOS running 10's once. Yeah, I think they are overlooked. But 401's are seriously tough to obtain. Only time I ever actually saw one was when there was a Javelin SST with 401 badges in a parking lot.

Brootal
09-26-2003, 02:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I want to see someone build a bad to the bone '63 or so AMC Rambler American, the one with the round headlight bezels, as a pro-street deal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's one that lives in Sydney, Australia. Not a "full on" Pro-Street car, but with a 390 in it, I'm sure it gets along quite nicely thanks. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

http://www.the-rumbler.com/american2k2/64american.jpg

http://www.the-rumbler.com/american2k2/64american2.jpg

Sweeeet....

Blownolds
09-26-2003, 02:43 AM
Boy, that's nice. That one yours?

butcher666
04-01-2004, 02:06 AM
All I have to say is AM was about 15 years ahead of everyone. 107 World speed and endurance records???!!! Look that shit up you GM and Ford nuts. BROUGHT TO YOU BY A PROUD RACER OF A 74 GREMLIN AND A 69 390 4SPD AMX.

zman
04-01-2004, 09:38 AM
I've always had a soft spot for AMC's. Never should have sold my '65 Rambler convertable. That thing kicked ass. I should have a friend from high schools '69 AMX 390 Go-Package, 4spd up here soon for a head gasket and some TLC. That thing is awesome...

dixiedog
04-01-2004, 10:30 AM
My boys 74 CJ5 has a built 304 dynoed 310 hp and it is a torque monster (pulls the left front tire) and sounds great thru the FlowMasters.
It has a dual plane manifold with 700 cfm Holley, 270 grind cam, 8.5:1 forged pistons 30 over, ported heads, MSD distributer & 6A box and standard headers. All the V-8s use the same block so there is plenty of meat to bore out. The original CI size is cast in the drivers side below the head, only other way to find it is the 9th number code in a JEEPs VIN if original or rocker cover if original. The 401's are the most sought after. BTW the International 304 & AMC 304 are completely different and IH used the AMC 401's in later Travelalls & Trucks.

Al Green
10-14-2007, 08:55 AM
Any ideas on putting a chevy 4.3 v6 in a 90 wrangler?

Dolmetsch
10-14-2007, 01:59 PM
Been there done that. Here we are in 1968 at Cayuga Ontario running K/S. Vern Christie driving. Vern now works for Calgary Dragway.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/big-d/vern.jpg

2xcrash
10-14-2007, 02:13 PM
I've got a 360 in my 79 demarco boat with a panther jet. It keeps up with my friends 454 but I spend about 60% less in gas in a days run.

41woodie
10-14-2007, 02:13 PM
As a genuine old guy I remember a magazine series (R&C I think) featuring the buildup of a '36 Ford ragtop with an AMC V8 in it. I think it was written by Spence Murray and illustrated the problems and modifications necessary to fit the engine to the chassis. For all of you hardcore "traditional" guys I'm pretty sure that he used a four-speed in the build. Might be useful for anyone comptemplating such a project. Would have been in the early 70's I think.

shadowmtkustomz
10-14-2007, 02:14 PM
Any ideas on putting a chevy 4.3 v6 in a 90 wrangler?

wow, how random. first post, in a thread that's three years old, and about a 90 wrangler? wtf.

oldcarmike
10-14-2007, 02:48 PM
wow, how random. first post, in a thread that's three years old, and about a 90 wrangler? wtf.

I'm suspecting that feller is lost or perhaps, hmmm - didn't really read anything here before posting.

Castr8r
10-14-2007, 04:42 PM
Howdahell did he find it? Brings back some good memories, tho. I ran several Javelins, and had a '71 AMX, 401,4-speed. It were fast and thirsty, partly due to the Motorcrap 4 barrel. The best was the Hornet Hatchback with 3 on the floor and overdrive. That six banger would get 20 to 24 mpg daily driving, and went everywhere, anytime. I wish I still had it...

Ramblur
10-14-2007, 11:25 PM
I need to thank these guys for taking a impressionable 15 y.o. to
the 75 US Nationals. I was ruined after this...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a353/Ramblur/scan.jpg

breeder
10-14-2007, 11:36 PM
that pic is fuckin killer!
im the second owner of a 70 amx, my pop was the first owner! wouldnt sell her for a million bucks! well, yeah for a million!:D

dare-to-be-different
10-15-2007, 12:48 AM
I hope I can post a pic here...
Is there a way I can post a pic or two of the 401 Gremlin I raced in the early 90's ?
I have a few pics on my computer. Every time I try to put up a pic here it asks for the URL.
I suppose I can put the burnout and race pics on my website and then use that URL, but isn't there a way I can cut-and-paste the pics from my computer straight to here and save some steps? or does that tie up too much room on the message board?
Maybe I haven't found the right button, or ?? I guess I don't know enough about the procedures for what I am trying to do...
Thanks for any advice.

dare-to-be-different
10-15-2007, 01:17 AM
I hope these pics make it..

365435

365436

365437

This is a 401 Gremlin I raced a few times in the early 90's.
At this particular event, I made it all the way to the Final Four round. After a day of racing, with only 4 of us left standing, I didn't get enough cooldown time before they waved me back to the starting line too soon, where the poor car overheated and sputtered a little and then lost by just two feet.
It sure was fun to drive. It is in storage now collecting dust.

The 4WD Eagle Wagon in the last pic is the one I put together with a built-up 1977 Pacer 258 engine with an early big-port 232-head with shaft rockers, my special enlarged ports+bowls, cut down Manley-Chevy valves, sleeved guides, and an HEI distributor that seems to have become popular lately. That hopped up Eagle was a great family car for about a dozen years until the 258 engine twisted the snout off the Chrysler 904 tansmission (normally used behind Dodge V8s). I should have fixed it, but traded it off instead.
That 2-bbl carbureted Eagle did 20 mpg in the city, 20 mpg lightly loaded on the highway, and 20 mpg when towing a loaded trailer. Very peppy stoplight to stoplight on dry pavement, and still went just as quick when on the snow. Even my V8 Jeep wasn't nearly that good at it. AMC really hyped their "viscous drive" Eagle transfer case that would "divide the torque" and send it where it was needed. I had always thought it was just advertising hype for a normal t-case, but it really did act differently from the boondocker Jeep I had.

rustynewyorker
10-15-2007, 01:20 AM
These guys find these threads through google searches, I'm sure, whatever they type in Google finds the terms here in threads on the board and links them to it.... and they bump the thread without ever bothering to see what sort of board it's on.

These are the same idiots I get on eBay sending dumb posts, like the guy who thought the one Buick had to be junk even if the motor turns over because he and some fools he knew blew one up when they tried to start it after years - and apparently never changed, checked, looked at the oil or pulled the plugs....

I would have no problem driving an AMC product, a guy was telling me he sold a nice '74 Matador for $500 a few weeks back and I was kind of mad that I missed out on it. 258 and a manual trans in it I guess - the manual is kind of odd in those.

George
10-15-2007, 09:03 AM
Didn't James Bond jump one of those over a river in Thailand? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gifMatador

uc4me
10-15-2007, 11:00 AM
James Bond made the jump in a hornet

AMC switched to chrysler automatics in 1972

AMC's RULE !!!!!

tomslik
10-15-2007, 06:51 PM
James Bond made the jump in a hornet

AMC switched to chrysler automatics in 1972

AMC's RULE !!!!!


yep, and the car/plane was.............. a matador (2dr not the 4 dr)

glmarkie
10-15-2007, 07:05 PM
My brother had a 69 javelin in highschool with a 390 pulled out of a police car.It was a hell of an engine. Had alot of fun in that car and surprised we did'nt kill ourselves. It's amazing that you don't see that many of them at shows or even running around around here locally in kenosha.They do have a nice AMC show here every summer though. Had another buddy with a 343 in a 68 amx and that was a screamer too.

Don Moyer
10-15-2007, 10:55 PM
territory it charted:D