Cease and desist request - So-Cal Speed shop VS So-Cheap

[so-cheap]

<font color="blue">
I got a letter today...... </font>

Re: Infringement of SO-CAL SPEED SHOP Trademark and Logo

Dear Mr. Ennis:

We represent Alex Xydias and SO-CAL Enterprises, Inc., d/b/a/So-Cal Speed Shop ("SO-CAL"), respectively owner and exclusive licensee of U.S. Tradmark Registation.....for the SO-CAL SPEED SHOP Trademark and Logo Design.....

We have noted that you are using the SO-CHEAP mark inside the same distinctive SO-CAL SPEED SHOP oval logo in the sale of apparel and other goods without the authorization of SO-CAL.

Our client is concerned....that your use of the SO-CHEAP logo is likely to cause confusion with the SO-CAL SPEED SHOP mark and logo.....Your use of the SO-CHEAP mark and logo is likely to lead the public to believe that your products are license by, sponsored by, or otherwise affiliated with SO_CAL which is not true.
<font color="red">
I am there for writing to request that you please immediately desist from any further use of the SO-CHEAP mark and logo.
</font>

Also, by May 14th, 2004 please (1) recall all goods that you have distributed under the SO-CHEAP mark and logo; (2) produce and accounting of all product that you have manufactured or sold over the last four years which utilize the SO-CHEAP mark and logo which accounting includes (i) product description;(ii) the dates of manufacture and sale; (iii) the amount of manufactured and sold;(Iv) the name of the distributor and retail outlet items were sold to; and (v) the sale price of each product: and (3) contact me to confirm that you will comply with the above.

I am pretty sure that the two logos are quite different...


Hey So-What....did you get one too??

[so-cheap]

..

[NortonG]

Holy shit what a bunch of losers.
I will no longer wear my SO-CAL coat.
So what are you going to do?

[Munson]

So they have copywrites on "ovals",
When I look at it the colors, text, and contrast/layout is diff.

Whats this world coming to?
Sorry,
j

[so-cheap]

Where is that So-What speed shop web site??

There is also a guy who was selling So-What Shirts in Vegas this year. He was around before the So-What speed shop that is getting all the press lately. I wonder if he got a letter too. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Machinos]

Remember, parody is only protected speech if you're willing to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars fighting off lawyers!

[ QUOTE ]
Holy shit what a bunch of losers.
I will no longer wear my SO-CAL coat.
So what are you going to do?

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope he starts selling SO-CHEAP coats http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Deyomatic]

Wow, looks like SoCal doesn't get anymore of my money, either.
You should answer by telling them that you don't even sell parts, just T-shirts that emphasize "do it yourself hot rods." Do they REALLY think you are going to put them out of business.
First Ron's thing, now this...

[PEDDRO]

I'm no copyright/trademark expert, but I believe your logo is significantly different enough.

Their text isn't reversed out.
Theirs is coloured.
Different font.
Different layout.

Let them spend the bucks.....they might learn something. At the risk of giving an irresponsble OPINION, ignore the letter!!

Dr J??

Only lawyers win in these situations.

[so-cheap]

What Happened with Ron?

[Deyomatic]

BTW, I don't think Clark (So What) was selling things. But who knows?

[Deyomatic]

I'll PM you...

[PEDDRO]

And what's on May 14th? Their friday pub night? Need a little extra cash for beers?

[so-cheap]

Parody is the word.....

[Bumpstick]

I went directly to the so-cheap web site to buy a shirt and when I ordered all I got was a blank page. I guess someone took it seriously. Anyway, I'll just make my own. I promise I wont sell any. SoCal doesn't make enough money anyway? -stick

[Deyomatic]

Actually, now that I think of it, a former lawyer on here said they would offer advice to people with problems...Anyone know who that is?
Might be on the HAMB O DEX

[so-cheap]

YEah I went to the cafepress.com/socheap/ site to see if they were still available and it was down. I guess they got the letter too.

I need to call this laaaawyer tomorrow. I'll keep you guys posted.

[low springs]

i know Alex Xydias. hes actually a really nice guy and good artist. he came up with that logo and a lot of other t-shirt designs for so-cal. a lot of you may have seen him at Billet proof, VLV, GNR. i'm sure its the higher ups doing.

a few post back everybody was upset how Keith Wessner art was being copied. isn't this almost the same. there are some similartys but hay it's just my $.02

[burndup]

This is differnt, yet slightly the same as the artist rip off topic...

Its a parody, tho... you KNOW where the idea came from... its not like your stealing ORIGINALITY...

Dammit, i'm sick of the big corporations always trying to stick it in the little guy's ass.

FUCK soCal.

(dammit, I'm starting to sound like Dr J...)

Tell them you made a buck fifty and the three T shirts you made wore out already and you used them for rags... then they can go after the guy that ripped your shit off at vlv. lay low for awhile, and emerge from the ashes...

That sucks.

-J

[low springs]

sell me one of your shirts.

since i know Alex i'll go pick him up for lunch and walk into So-Cal wearing it. just to fuck with him and them. that would really piss everybody off. HAHA

[Slag Kustom]

tje only problem is these courport jerk offs have the time and money to fuk all of us around till we go broke !!!!!!!!!!!
ies it is close but who gives a fuk at this point so cal has not made any thing good in more years then i am old
they are only living off the past and should find some thing new to make money off of instead of trying to fuk some one out to have some fun !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ray]

i should know not to give legal advise, but at the very least DO NOT send them ANYTHING regarding the products you sold! ie. where, qtys price etc. but you probably knew that.

personally i'd ignore it, but then i couldn't afford a lawyer to write a letter for me, nor do i got anything they could take...

fight it if you can.

in the meantime, i'll take another shirt!

oh and SO-CAL, if(haha, we KNOW you'll be reading this!) you read this, yes, you lose my business too. what little it is being there is a SO-CAL right in MY TOWN! i'll patronize the other rod shops then thank you. YOU DON"T FUCKING OWN HOT RODDING! YOU AIN"T FUCKING WALT DISNEY! go ahead and open this door, i'm sure someone will step up to the plate and put you out of business...is it again? i dunno but it takes some balls to send cease and decist letters when your whole product line steals from ALL of hot roddings history. maybe FORD will step up and fuck you up, and then fuck up every other hot rod parts suppleir just because THEY CAN, and YOU got COCKY. then we can all THANK SO-CAL for RUINING hot rodding. pfffft. so-cheap ain't takin shit from your pockets. maybe you haven't caught the last part of the name -CHEAP. you're products don't exactly cater to the budgets of even the "average" rodder. we are in different worlds, and sorry but we had a laugh at your expense, suck it up, leave the lawyers out of it and be a fucking HOT RODDER!

i can't remember his name, but the guy that runs the showroom of SO-CAL here got a chuckle out of my SO-CHEAP shirt when he saw it. i'll have to go down there and break the news to him. too bad, he's a nice guy, guess i can still stop by to shoot the shit.

[plan9]

its probably true, there are people who are paid to look for this type of stuff.

lets get SO-CHEAP shirts and go to SO-CAL speedshop to browse... id like to think Xydias is more into cars than pursuing logo parodys... but its his lifes work, and i wont fault him for protecting it.

then again its my money, and i dont have to shop at SO-CAL

[McPhail]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here....... As mentioned before, a couple weeks ago HAMBers were ready to hang people for art that was "kinda" close to Keith weesners'...... and although your art is "technically" different from SoCal's, it's quite OBVIOUS that the "gimmick" of your logo was to intentionally resemble the SoCal name and logo.......I have nothing against SoCheap or anyone affiliated with it whatsoever, so please don't take this as a personal attack.........But I say hey, if you made a few bucks off shirts, consider it a good run and cut your losses now........If SoCheap is a legitimate business or shop then you should have no problem whatsoever creating your OWN logo and corporate identity. Why would you even want to have something associated with your company that even faintly resembled anything else unless you purposely intended on riding on someone elses name?... that's where the ripoff is......i would suppose you could rightfully argue that the art IS TECHNICALLY different enough, but the intent of resemblance is blatantly obvious. Now, that being said, this is NOT a little guy versus big company thing at all.....these copyright laws and artistic licenses are put in place to protect everyone. even companies that make more money than you. Justice is blind. I have wondered how long it was going to take for awhile now anyways..... and I almost said something about this when the Weesner post came up......principals mean nothing if you only stick by them when it's easy to do so....... my 2 cents.......

[plan9]

haha ray!

you rule http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

mcphail brings up a good point though. *SOMETIMES* justice is blind, and lets say you were in SO-CAL's shoes...

when i saw the SO-CHEAP logo, immediately i thought of SO-CAL.. its a catch22 for me, there a lot of hot rod history in the name and i give respect where its due, but i also think SO-CHEAP is a clever gimmick and poses no threat to SO-CAL speedshop.

can we still get SO-CHEAP shirts?

[yorgatron]

put me down for a XXL,you got'em in black so the grease don't show?

[Slag Kustom]

i play the legal game at work and deal with this bull shit on the same end as so cheap is dealing with i (the company i work for) has delt with this bs many of times and there is no need to go to bat for it it will cost all of us more then we all can piss away in our average joe life

[burndup]

Lady justice is blind, deaf, mute, dumb, though influenced by money, and has absolutely no sense of feeling (pain or pressure, or pleaseure, for that matter) in her lower abdominal orifices... in short, a greedy freako gimp with hardly any clothes on lugging around a rigged scale...

[Kojack]

I would think you could just say that it is parody, and even if you're making money off it, it's still protected legally. Look at tshirthell.com's shirts... a lot of them take ideas from major brands, and it's all parody. I don't think they've got a good foothold to sue anyone... just to scare you off. Like when Microsoft sued some collage kid because his name was Mike Roe, and he made a site called mikeroesoft.com. Because you're a big name doesn't mean you fucking own ovals and letters.

I fucking hate those guys anyway. They are goldchainers that try to look hip to the younger guys into hot rods. 120 bucks for a Dickies jacket with you logo on it? Bite me.

[klazurfer]

Funny Ray should mention Walt Disney .. I have allways thought that Alex, Pierson-Bros &amp; Dean Moon got their Logo and paint-sheem-ideas from looking at this little guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[burndup]

DAMN THAT DIRTY RAT!

[Levis Classic]

Problem is as hot rodding catches on to middle America it becomes profitable, so the lawyer scums come out from under their rocks to collect some cash off the hobby. Just look at the whole Von Dutch thing.

If we use Von Dutch on a hat - the lawyers take the hat and give it back to a trucker
If we use Hot Rod on a shirt - The magazine will get us
If we use Rat Rod on a shirt - Disney will get us

If we use HAMB on a shirt - Ryan gives his blessing.

Gotta love the HAMB.

[Missing Link]

I would like a XXL please. If they are still available let me know.
Everyone has some very good points, both pro and con. I just think the whole thing is fuckin' stupid. One more reason for me to not purchase anything from So-Cal.

[Brootal]

Americans just don't get the "piss take" thing do they? I mean really, how much damage is it going to do. I've got a So-Cal T-shirt and baseball cap, I've seen the So-Cheap and So-What logos, thought it was funny and didn't think about it again. Don't really see what the big deal is, except that lawyers bill their time in 6 minute blocks.

Wonder how many it took them to draft up that letter...

[Jimv]

what everyone is saying is right! cut your loses. Beleive it or not the biggest 2 people to go after people for this type of thing was the Grateful dead &amp; Spanky McFarland.The dead would have people outside there concerts shaking down bootleggers &amp; Spanky would sue anyone who used the name "spanky or Spankys" on anything, bars , resturants, etc.
Its American business, it was a good run but you have to eat crow now.
I wouldn't do what they said, just stop what your doing &amp; change the logo.
JimV
PS one other thing, you might be able to talk to Mickey at Total performance, they use a "blue oval" that says"Total peroformance" instead of "Ford"

[fuel pump]

McPhail is correct. It may not be right but it's the law.

[gonowhere]

I'l take a large...Hey, HEX was a law talkin guy up in NY. I'll forward the thread to him. I think it was corporate law too.

[plmczy]

Same thing happened back in the early 90's with Chrysler, they were suing anybody that used the "MOPAR" moniker. They went after alot of car clubs using it and also the Magazine called MoPerformance. They had to get back all the issues that used that name. Maybe they think your implying something about their business. How can anybody confuse their company with yours, hell I never knew it existed till I came here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. later plmczy

[J Man]

I don't think I have aver seen a copywrite or TM by there logo. Maybe you can try to get the So Cheap logo trade marked and then you can sue them.

[swazzie]

This is your presidence and it wont stop here.Although I love so-cheap I truly am surprised it took this long .this is the beginning . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . .

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-11_2-515542.html

[choprods]

I feel for ya So Cheap- but may be best to co-operate with the BASTARD PEOPLE[I mean so cal]OOPS!now I owe em...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Andy]

I know the guy who restarted SoCal. He "borrowed" some of the product designs from me and some of the designs from a friend of mine. He is out of it so I don't think any new designs will be coming out of SoCal. It is just a big t-shirt co. now. Fads change.

[cougardan]

I'd like to donate to your legal fund. I wear an XL.
Dan

[bustingear]

They will ask for profits from sale or a portion of. You can expect it.

[Donzie]

I guess this means I'd better call the printer and have him put a halt to having these made, huh?
Now, I GOTTA have a S0-Cheap shirt...size large please.

[mr.midnite]

here's his trademark,


Word Mark SO-CAL SPEED SHOP EST. 1946
Goods and Services IC 025. US 022 039. G &amp; S: clothing, namely, T-shirts, jackets, sweatshirts and headwear. FIRST USE: 19971122. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19971122
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 260302
Serial Number 76437822
Filing Date August 5, 2002
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Published for Opposition December 2, 2003
Registration Number 2816245
Registration Date February 24, 2004
Owner (REGISTRANT) Xydias, Alex B. DBA SO-CAL Speed Shop INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES 9960 Milburn Drive Sun Valley CALIFORNIA 91352
Attorney of Record Stephen P. Demm
Prior Registrations 2327774
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "EST. 1946" APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Type of Mark TRADEMARK
Register PRINCIPAL-2(F)
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

[Junkyard Dog 32]

Without that second oval, he ain't got no stinkin' case!!!

FUCK 'EM!!!

First off, I'll never use So-Cal products.
Second, are they going to spent that kind of dough fighting this? Call YOUR lawyer when they actually take you to court... DON"T spend a nickle till they do more than send a letter.

It doesn't cost shit to have a lawyer send a letter, but it costs a fuck-load to actually go to court.

Not to mention the LOST REVENUE from real hotrodders who can SHOP ELSEWHERE.

Either that, or about 500 of us can start selling shirts that have SO- on them.

Besides, yours has SO, meaning to a certain degree...
Theirs has SO, meaning South.
Any fool can tell the difference...
If you fight it, you'll win...

SO-JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Kinky6]

Hey, klazsurfer, you're on the right track. Dean Moon hired a Disney artist to clean up the origional "eyeballs" design, I think he might have gotten the slanting ovals from the buttons on Mickey's pants... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Dreamweaver]

VW did the same thing to the VW aftermarket several years ago. Aftermarket VW parts sellers could no longer use "VW" or their logo on their ads or product descriptions. Pick up a VW mag at the counter and look at their ads, it's really sad. Especially when VW doesnt even sell those products.

Corporate greed at it's best.

BOYCOTT SO-CAL!

[Smokin Joe]

90% of what lawyers get they get from the threats and intimidation, not from a judge. I would shut down the sales till you get things sorted out with Alex &amp; co. but that friggin lawyer doesn't have any more right to your financial information at this point than I do. He's just hoping you're stupid and scaired enough to open the door and let him in.

If parody is illegal, then Jay Leno's going to be out of business and so is every political cartoonist in the country.

[mr.midnite]

probably not what you want to hear but the two logos share design similarities. To simply ignore the letter would be ignorant and if this action goes further would come back to haunt you. As far as all the accounting that was asked to be provided, I believe only a judge could issue that demand. It seems that they are asking you to do their homework for them.

[50mercfan]

here are some options;

A. get a lawyer. fight them. all you'll get out of that is an empty bank acount.

B. bombard them with e-mails from HAMBers who are displeased with there decision to do this to you.

C. create a new logo and name for your buisiness.

there are lots of very tallented graphic artist and creative minds on the HAMB. maybe someone could help you create a new logo and name thats better than the one you have now.

i think it sucks that they've decided to do this to you. i don't think your shirts are really going to hurt thier buisiness at all, but, when you look at both logos it pretty obvious where yours came from.

[SanDiegoJoe]

When it comes right down to it - you ripped them off. You sat down with the So-Cal web site or a tee shirt and designed your logo just like what you saw.

It would be like selling software called MicroSlop Winders.

You were begging to have a laywer knock on your door.

I know it's harsh, but stop whining and fix it.

[burndup]

[ QUOTE ]
McPhail is correct. It may not be right but it's the law.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sort of defeatest attitude is makin america weak...

FIGHT the law!!!!

[modernbeat]

Don't fight the law, exploit the weaknesses of the law - much easier and still legal!

[mr.midnite]

[ QUOTE ]
This sort of defeatest attitude is makin america weak...

FIGHT the law!!!!


[/ QUOTE ]

stealing someones concept is "making America weak"? How did you come up with that? The trademark and patent laws are designed so you can hold on to your idea or concept without anyone else capitalizing on it. Some of the comments to this post are past ridiculous, "fuck 'em, ignore it, don't do anything, how can they do that, the design isnt similar", makes me wonder about some of your rationalization skills. Lawyers thrive on that type of naive behavior. Just the other day someone posted about some artist on here who's image was obviously pirated but changed slightly and you same bunch were up in arms about it. If someone other than Ryan started selling H.A.M.B. whatever you guys would form a lynch mob. Stop thinking emotionally for a minute and consider the facts. Trademark laws are STRONG and taken very seriously and thats what the lawyer has in his favor.

[Django]

Your logo is obviously deriviative as parody. That's the POINT. I think if you had gotten permission from them first you would be ok. You should probably speak with a copyright attorney and seek out your options. Also be aware that they found you, so you can bet they are monitoring the HAMB. You have a link to the HAMB on the so cheap site. Don't say anything that can be used against you. You might want to read over what you've said thus far.

With that said, personally I think it sucks they are going after you but with the amount of money moving through their doors, I'm not suprised. Note their copyright date is for 1997 forward for Tshirt use. If you have receipts from product prior to 1997, then that is in your favor.

Don't give them anything until you speak with a copyright attorney! It sucks, but you have no choice.

I don't think you were hurting them financially and only a complete idiot can overlook that it is a parody. Your website ensured you would get caught eventually.

[48_HEMI]

Burn you records, It didn't help ENRON or NIXON but they have a hard time proving anything. And now that you are a icon in the T-shirt industry I need 2 Autographed X-Large
where do I send the check or do you take visa http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You won't win but you can cost them alot of cash that they will never collect. sell as much as you can then change your name to Coyd Boddington http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Nads]

Do you remember when all those stoner/druggy Ts were out that parodied famous products like cereals and candy bars? There were thousands of them and a friend of mine made a ton of money off them. They were PARODIES, Clark's product is a parody. Parodies are legally protected.
Right now there are probably hundreds of designs out there poking fun at Von Vutch and West Coast Choppers, these guys better be sending out cease and desists by the bushel.
Anyone that cannot see the difference between a ripoff and a parody in this situation is blind.

Having said that SoCal has the moneypower to make your life miserable Clark, you can try to fight it on principle and I think you would win, but it could cost you dearly.

I'm on SoCheap's side on this one.

[cheap-n-dirty]

I am not a legal expert but look at the dates that they used in their filling. if you have any kind of proof , a picture with a dated item in the back ground ect. , that would prove that yours was in use befoe their filling.
this is just f**king low life lawyers, who could not hold any kind of job elsewhere, looking for their money taken from hard working people.

[PFF]

[ QUOTE ]
VW did the same thing to the VW aftermarket several years ago. Aftermarket VW parts sellers could no longer use "VW" or their logo on their ads or product descriptions. Pick up a VW mag at the counter and look at their ads, it's really sad. Especially when VW doesnt even sell those products.

Corporate greed at it's best.

BOYCOTT SO-CAL!

[/ QUOTE ]I work for a VW parts company, in the UK this happened to us. VW America sent out cease and destroy orders to the UK. The laugh is they have no legal durastriction over us so there is sod all they can do.
Moon did this to a few years ago; (before they were bought out) again they tried but no durastriction.
Blatant rip off of such things as the MoonEyes sucks, but when it’s a piss take where’s the harm?
Also doesn’t this help So Cal, as these shirts bring more awareness to their brand?

[Spitfire1776]

Read the verbage of the letter. Strong arm tactics - they know they have no solid ground to stand with it. The logo is different enough to fall out of sites of their guns. Never do that state any particular statute or legal refferal in which you are in violation of. Thus even if they took it to civil court would easily dismiss it. As well you aren't causing them loss of money or infringement on retail production.

They're trying to take you as an easily intimidated pee-on, and hoping you would just cow-tow like the website. SPeaking of which, I'm assuming the site provider yanked the site? Under whose authority - they can't just yank the site with renters notification prior at least.

Big bag of worms......

[CherryBlossom]

To Repeat Mr. Midnight.....could you IMAGINE that if someone, a non HAMBER, was producing HAMB shirts, or a "parody" of it, implying that the HAMB was ANYTHING but perfect - and making money off them, what you guys would THINK? It'd be a fucking riot to get that guys throat slit. How is that any different?
It's OBVIOUS where so-cheap got their logo, and he's lucky to have gotten away with it for so long. I admit it is shitty that this has to happen, but he shoulda taken the proper avenues when getting started. Ya'll KNOW if it was YOUR logo being "ripped off" in some way, shape or form, you'd be wanting to claim it back for yourself again too.

Oh and, I'd defenitely watch what you say on here, if you plan to take any action, SoCheap - we already know there's some So-Cal guys on here - remember the whole UPS/So-Cal shipping post a while back? They're watching.

[Kevin Lee]

Nads,

Clark = SO-WHAT
SO-CHEAP = some other guy

[**DONOTDELETE**]

its funny to me that all the artists cry bloody murder if anyone remotely copies anything you draw and yet this is some sort of crime. You tried to make a funny joke and they busted you. get over it.

You cant have it both ways. You ripped them off and got called on it. Without So-cal, there would be no So-cheap. It's not that fucking funny get over it.

the fact that this went to 3 pages is sad. Fuck So-cheap, how about so-stupid.

[hankcash]

[ QUOTE ]
its funny to me that all the artists cry bloody murder if anyone remotely copies anything you draw and yet this is some sort of crime. You tried to make a funny joke and they busted you. get over it.

You cant have it both ways. You ripped them off and got called on it. Without So-cal, there would be no So-cheap. It's not that fucking funny get over it.

the fact that this went to 3 pages is sad. Fuck So-cheap, how about so-stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't hold anything back man... let's hear how you really feel about this.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

HC

[ELpolacko]

Phil,

this is a shot across the bow.

Know your rights and leagal responsibilities, hire a lawyer. I use this service for this type of situation. It is a lawyer referal service. Maricopa County Bar Association (http://www.maricopabar.org/lris1.shtml?lris) for $35.00 you get 30 minutes with a specialist. I have used this service before and have been able to solve most of my problems with just the 30 minute appointment.

This could be ugly, if they are correct.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

oh no, a Hamb boycot..... they may lose 10 bucks on the fucking deal.

YOU RIPPED THEM OFF!

Where are all the artists now? Shouldnt you guys be outraged that anyone ripped anything off? Remember the Weesner post?

YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

[magnet]

Strong arm tactics work when you have a weak foundation...

Truthfully.. to me it looks similar...

I would change the logo.. add another border to it either around the outside or to the edge of the black swoop.

its just easier that way... and cheaper

The similarities are what they are after i think..

you could always change it to So-Stupid... be cause So Cal is so freaking Stooopid

I have never bought anything from So Cal (except for a catalog once.. maybe) and it looks like i never will...

In my opinion So cal is like the Microsoft of the hot rodder world... always there right at the front of the line to capitalize off the hard work and ideas of others ... they are cashing in on all the salt flats tradition and history.. because they are one of the older shops that was around back then... and they convinced the hot rodders of today that that was cool.. and that they were there, and responsible for it... granted its a mom and pop image they have.. but with all that cash they have a marketing and legal department that is corporatizing their market share... hot rodders dont like that. Gold Chainers do though.. So Cal is sort of the gateway for old rich mid life crisis gold chainers to "be cool" with the rat rod thing that everyone is talkng about..

So-Shaft.. thats what we should give them.. the shaft

C'mon SO Cal.. tell me whats cool...tell me what overpriced shit i can put on my coupe to make me cooler..... tell me how i should set up my steering so i can get some patch... what backing plates should i pay too much for so i can get a bit of beave..

Screw Cal

Just change the logo... tell them you did it.. and thats it.. dont tell them shit about what you have done.

Just my 2 cents...

[delaware george]

does weird al call and ask all those bands before he makes fun of their songs? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[CherryBlossom]

[ QUOTE ]
does weird al call and ask all those bands before he makes fun of their songs? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, in fact, he does.

[repoguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Having said that SoCal has the moneypower to make your life miserable Clark, you can try to fight it on principle and I think you would win, but it could cost you dearly.

[/ QUOTE ]


This is the reality of the matter. The guy who owns the company that I work for has a philosophy about lawsuits - "keep filing motions until they go broke".

Bottom line, it costs a lot to go to the mat with a large company, unless you can prove that they harmed you (in which case attorneys will descend on you like flying monkeys in the wizard of oz offering to accept your case on contingency!).

Whatever you do, be nice &amp; don't let it turn into a pissing match with the people at SoCal so that it gets "personal" for them. Once you do that and they decide that they don't mind losing money just to prove a point and make you suffer, trust me, it will become very ugly.

Just my 2 cents.

[delaware george]

wow...i never would have let him,if it were my song...that's crazy

[345window]

If the So-Cal lawyers litigate they way they write letters I wouldnt worry about it! Does everyone with "Speed Shop" in their company name owe to an original copywrite? Of course not, the clarification is subjective as to intent...you have to ask yourself are there enough differences (or similatities existing elsewhere) to set the two apart as "seperate".

Hankcash...that chick is awesome, I'm single, old and fat with some money and all my teeth...think she would move to Maryland?

[CherryBlossom]

[ QUOTE ]
wow...i never would have let him,if it were my song...that's crazy

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL yeah I know....
I remember something happening with Eminem a few years ago, he either wouldn't let him use his song, or something, I don't recall......anyway.

[Kevin Lee]

I have it both ways.

[Curt Six]

I usually don't even reply to stuff like this...and by the 5th page I don't think anyone gives a fuck anyway, but for what it's worth I was a designer at a couple of skateboarding companies in the 90's when all those guys did was rip off designs like you did with the So-Cal logo. We got those letters all the time, and when we did we would just discontinue that wheel or board and go jock someone elses logo. I think it's already been said, but whether or not it's silly for those guys to worry about what you're doing (which I think it is, for the record), you did swipe their logo and they do have the right to tell you to stop. It's the price of being punk rock...or something...

One way you COULD look at this is to say "hey, I've gotten enough notoriety that the "big guys" know about me" and think about getting somebody on here to design you a new original logo. Just a thought...
Curt

[Satinblack]

So I guess ford should do the same to so-cal. Give me a break! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Mojo]

[ QUOTE ]
does weird al call and ask all those bands before he makes fun of their songs? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, he does. There was a problem with Coolio and "gangstas paradise" parody "amish paradise", in that coolio said he never gave permission, but weird al's camp has written proof that he did. He was just wanting to drum up shit because the parody was more popular than his song... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif (not really, but a hell a lot funnier)

I'm not a lawyer by any means, but it seems like that inner oval is not covered by the copywrite, however any text inside the oval is.. So technically, they're stepping on Ford's toes? I'd speak to someone about parody laws, and if you're covered, have that lawyer send them a letter... The law works on intimidation... the threat of getting pulled over for speeding is enough to get most people to follow the speed limit when a cop is in sight. Proving that you broke the law is a whole other game...

[CherryBlossom]

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess ford should do the same to so-cal. Give me a break! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]


Um ok, that's just stupid of you to say. The only thing they have in common is that stupid fucking oval. It's not like it was SO-FORD. LOL.

[flynj1]

Im by no means an artist but sounds like time for new logo. Something like this

[Nads]

Thanks Grimlok, I'm a dumbass.

Anyhoo, does this mean OddRods with their one Moon eye can be sued by Mooneyes?

I don't know if any of you long time HAMBers remember when my pal staged a fictitous 'discovery' of the fabled SoCal shoe? It was just an old Converse that he painted with the SoCal logo, it was in fun with zero profit motive but I wonder if anyone would get sore at that?

There is the fact that Clark has made some money off his product, but I don't think he's rolling in it.

Gooch, there's a huge dichotomy of your view on this matter. Weesner was being artistically ripped off, SoCal is being parodied. It's a huge difference. This isn't about having it both ways at all.

And it's true that Weird Al does ask for permission to parody songs and certain pompous assholes have not let him.
I can think of no greater honor than to have your song lampooned by him.

Does anyone know if Weird Al's parodies are subject to licensing fees given to the original artist?

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
oh no, a Hamb boycot..... they may lose 10 bucks on the fucking deal.

YOU RIPPED THEM OFF!

Where are all the artists now? Shouldnt you guys be outraged that anyone ripped anything off? Remember the Weesner post?

YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

[/ QUOTE ]

read the weesner post AGAIN...

people were pissed off because of bone head comments about taking it in the ass when your work is pilfured.

i followed that weesner post, and dont recall seeing names of the angery few on this thread...????

[4t64rd]

That letter probably cost them more than what you made selling the So-Cheap products.

If you are big enough to be parodied, you should be ig enough to accept it with grace.

[Muttley]

The only people who would confuse So-Cal with So-Cheap wouldnt matter anyway. So-Cal is retarded, dont they have anything better to do? Like designing some more cup holders, posters and 15 dollar steering stabilizers (that they sell for 75 bucks http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif). I think I'll have to use my old wolf logo shirt to wipe my ass.

[296 V8]

Alex Xydias and Pete Chapouris have no doubt paid their dues and should be respected. Especially in this group of people. I personally know someone that profits off their logo (in a very small way) and on one occasion was called on it by one of the so cal guys. I personally saw Chapouris intervene and tell his employee to back off. Would you guys like to be bagged on for profit? <font color="red"> </font>

[mercury Bill]

I ll take 2 shirts Xl..Ya know some times you just gotta say Fuck the law, in a way thats what this country was built on. We have about what 5000 people on the HAMB everybody send so cal a shit letter with our discust telling them that were 5000 strong and we all know at least 10 people to tell not to buy their shit Thats 50000 people that we can tell ok maybe 40000 you all know what I mean.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Kevin Lee]

Sorry if no one else see's the humor in this...but I made my own day when this popped into my head. Hahaha, I'm so funny.

[DrJ]

So-Cal ripped off the oval Logo from FORD!
and TOYOTA and SUBARU!
I have a freebee-gift tie pin (that the pin fell off of) sitting in front of me that's OVAL with the word HONDA across it!

Half the fucking LOGOs in the World are probably in an OVAL!
Why don't they try to sue OVALTINE!

But we all know that in this LAND of the SO-CALLED-FREE the one with the most MONEY to pay the FUCKING CORPORATE LAWYERS will WIN in this battle over this SO-FUN SO-BRIQUET!

So-Cal thinks they are SO-COOL because they give away free HAMBURGERS at their party before the LA Roadster show, but I don't eat DEAD COW PARTS SO-BIG FUCKING DEAL!

I am NO LONGER saving up SO-I can buy a SO-CAL DUST PAN for my garage!

I DO have a plain white T-shirt though and I AM going to break out the felt markers and PIRATE a SO-CHEAP logo on it and wear it to SO-CAL's pre-roadster show open-house in June !

At least I know I won't get a cease and DE-CIST (is that acne removal?) from germ for using "CAPITALIZED ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WORDS" in my verbal-discourse. HE will meet me in an ALLEY at the Fair GORUNDS and we'll SO-LAUGH about this NON-SENSE

SO-CAL, LISTEN UP! You just got BOYCOTTED FOR LIFE!
YOU ARE ON MY FUCK-WAL-MART LIST!

(And PEDRO, sorry, but I'm not an ass-sucking Corporate LAWYER, I'm a stone carver and militant revolutionary (ret) from the 60's) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

And I"m a member of the MIDNIGHTERS CUSTOMS SO-CAL, and it's a legal registered licensed Non-profit COMPANY.
Oh fucking Gee-wizz! are they going to sue our car club next because our name says SO-CAL in it?

SO-FUCKED!!!!!

[sodbuster]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually don't even reply to stuff like this...

[/ QUOTE ]

But, just a thought. I bet that Alex and who ever his lawyer that sent you the letter is reading this right now. It is on the web for public view. So just a thought.

Chris Nelson
Kansas

[beatnik]

That is So-Gay. They must be counting on you not wanting to deal with the hassel and cash involved in fighting it.

I'm not an artist and I dont know what the laws are but but the logo is two freaking ovals, and the names have too different meanings and your using two different colors.

It's the man trying to keep us down, with his legal mumbo jumbo. If it wasn't for the cash invloved in a court case It would be worth calling there bluff.

That worst part is So-Cal is concerened with someone taking there T-Shirts sales away, which is very sad when your suppose to be a Speed Shop

[mercury Bill]

AW shit, This just in Ive got a Clay Smith tat on one arm and a cobra jet snake tat on my other, they will be coming to cut my arms off soon... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Munson]

[ QUOTE ]


(And PEDRO, sorry, but I'm not an ass-sucking Corporate LAWYER, I'm a stone carver and militant revolutionary (ret) from the 60's) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

SO-FUCKED!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Hell ya!

So the guy that owns so-cal reads the HAMB?
Maybe he might see that hes pissing off this crowd?
The so-cal (phx) open house a couple weeks ago was basically a bunch of retired old geezers w/ obviously too much money to be buying all the over priced shit they sell.
What a fuck-show...
j

[Kevin Lee]

And the truth lies somewhere between DrJ and Gooch....probably right about where Curt Six, Nads, and Django are hanging out. Just kicking back watching the fringe lunatics and eating sandwiches.

Nads - The so-cal shoe was hilarious. You've done some of the funniest stuff around here period - and I had forgotten about that one. Thanks.

[Django]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm not an artist and I dont know what the laws are but but the logo is two freaking ovals, and the names have too different meanings and your using two different colors.



[/ QUOTE ]

Like elements used in a like manner IS the problem. It doesn't matter what the words say. The design is derivative because naturally it is a parody. Attorneys don't HAVE a sense of humor...

[hammeredabone]

New logo

[wingnutz]

When you get into a "Pissen Match with a Skunk...," Whether you Win or Loose..., it still stinks!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Mark

[Spitfire1776]

Only some artists ask for licensing fees. Or record company might step in and say there's a usage fee because the lyrics have to be "studied" for parody. In Weird Als case though, its usually very little money involvement because many do regard it as homage.

[Nappy]

I think Nads has this pegged. I'm not sure of all the legal aspects, but it seems that Parody is a hell of a lot different than theft.

Reminds me of the case a couple of months ago where Al Franken published a book and Fox News sued him. Fox claimed copyright infringement and some of the same BS- that people would confuse the book for a Fox product. Fox got blown out pretty quickly on that one &amp; dropped the suit. Franken's still a whiney dickhead but proved that even if a parody isn't all that funny it's protected under the 1st amendment.

My 2 cents.

[Satinblack]

Not really, there is an oval in an oval on some. I guess they'll have to sort it out. But just for the record, I dont buy so cal or any other crap

[Sancho]

GRIMLOK, I think YOU have done some pretty funny stuff on here as well. And this whole subject reminded me of my personal favorite.....

[Smokin Joe]

The only one making any money on this deal is the Lawyer.
You can pretty much bet he's getting more than S0-Cheap ever made, and he's getting it by causing bad publicity for the guy who's paying him. That's America! It would be nice if Alex and Clarke could get on the phone and talk to each other, but that's not the way the world works anymore. Sad.

[296 V8]

COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT AND INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY LAWS ARE THERE TO PROTECT THE ARTIST... OR THE INVENTOR, OR THE COMPANY'S IDEAS...THE LINE GETS GRAYER WITH THE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE TODAY (INTERNET) BUT COME ON, YOU GUYS - CAN'T YOU AT LEAST TRY TO BE ORIGINAL??? COPYING SOMEONE ELSE'S DESIGNS IS AT THE VERY LEAST CHICKEN SHIT, AND SHOWS A SUBSTANTIAL LACK OF GRAY MATTER. GET WITH IT!

[the-rodster]

The logo was clearly meant as a parody, and there is some protection granted for the use of parodies....

http://www.publaw.com/parody.html

To paraphrase:

It may be necessary for the parodist to rely on the fair-use defense to forestall any liability for copyright infringement.The Copyright Act in Section 107 enumerates four "fair use factors" that must be analyzed to determine whether a particular use of a copyrighted work, such as a parody, is fair use. These factors are the (1) purpose and character of the use, including whether the use is commercially motivated or instead is for nonprofit educational purposes; (2) nature of the copyrighted work; (3) amount and substantiality of the portion used in the newly created work in relation to the copyrighted work; and (4) effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

But then again, I aint no lawyer.

Rich

[cougardan]

Maybe you should just change the logo a little but maintain the parody theme. Here's a totally unprofessionally executed idea you are welcome to. The imploding oval.
Dan

[thirtytwo]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, looks like SoCal doesn't get anymore of my money, either.
You should answer by telling them that you don't even sell parts, just T-shirts that emphasize "do it yourself hot rods." Do they REALLY think you are going to put them out of business.
First Ron's thing, now this...

[/ QUOTE ]

haaaa.haaaaaaaaa so cal dont sell fuckin parts either, every time i walk through there booth i notice more and more t-shirts and just a few chrome do dads

they're just pissed they cant sell their t-shirts for 50 bux like von dutch

its obvious your logo came from so-cal.....its differnt enough i dont think they have a case......but if they take you to court.that means you need to get a lawer to prove to the judge and their lawyer they dont have a case

court systems suck its not about whos innocent or guilty its about who plays the game better

maybe ford should sue them for their f-1 shock brackets or thier bull nose that has so-cal insted of the ford emblem??????

i realised they were ass holes after the shit they pulled on the kennedy brothers on their t-shirt

i dont think it has anything to do with alex its the other guy hes in bussiness with that turned a speedshop in to a fuckin apperal store.

GOOD LUCK

[unpunk01]

Don't you guys see what So-Cal is doing? They are gearing up (pardon the pun) to become the "next" Von Dutch. It's a common corporate strategy to squash anything that might confuse the public before the full bore launch of the brand. They know that they will have to deal with parodies and rip off's later in the game so why not crush anyone that might already have a following before the brand is worth millions! A great example of this was with Morehouse Mustard (http://www.morehousefoods.com/) and French's Mustard (http://www.frenchs.net/)...when was the last time you ate Morehouse Mustard? French's crushed Morehouse for using a similar banner on their mustard...even though Morehouse's logo was around first! Does Parris Hilton have a So-Cal shirt yet? Maybe So-Cheap should beat'em to the punch!

Just my $3...no, i'm not paranoid of corporate amerika...wait...who said that?...oh no, here come the black helicopters to take me awaaaaaaay!

[unpunk01]

Don't you guys see what So-Cal is doing? They are gearing up (pardon the pun) to become the "next" Von Dutch. It's a common corporate strategy to squash anything that might confuse the public before the full bore launch of the brand. They know that they will have to deal with parodies and rip off's later in the game so why not crush anyone that might already have a following before the brand is worth millions! A great example of this was with Morehouse Mustard (http://www.morehousefoods.com/) and French's Mustard (http://www.frenchs.net/)...when was the last time you ate Morehouse Mustard? French's crushed Morehouse for using a similar banner on their mustard...even though Morehouse's logo was around first! Does Parris Hilton have a So-Cal shirt yet? Maybe So-Cheap should beat'em to the punch!

Just my $3...no, i'm not paranoid of corporate amerika...wait...who said that?...oh no, here come the black helicopters to take me awaaaaaaay! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[unpunk01]

is there an echo....echo...echo...in here?

[metalshapes]

[ QUOTE ]
Funny Ray should mention Walt Disney .. I have allways thought that Alex, Pierson-Bros &amp; Dean Moon got their Logo and paint-sheem-ideas from looking at this little guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the paint scheme was stolen from a Race Plane the Granville brothers built.

The Gee Bee...

[Django]

I've seen Jimmy Shine shirts pop on TV a couple different times, and the shows were not about cars...

[Deuce Rails]

First: I haven't seen so much potentially harmful free-legal-advice bullshit in one place in a long, long time. What is it about intellectual property law that makes everyone an expert?

Second: Since when has DrJ started trying to write like Germ?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif --Matt

[SamIyam]

[ QUOTE ]
sell me one of your shirts.

since i know Alex i'll go pick him up for lunch and walk into So-Cal wearing it. just to fuck with him and them. that would really piss everybody off. HAHA

[/ QUOTE ]

I have an XL So-Cheap shirt I'll send you for FREE if you do this.

But you have to report back to us with what he said... and maybe talk to Pete too... maybe get their opinions on all our opinions...

Send me a PM with your mailing addy...

Sam.

[Curly]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
VW did the same thing to the VW aftermarket several years ago. Aftermarket VW parts sellers could no longer use "VW" or their logo on their ads or product descriptions. Pick up a VW mag at the counter and look at their ads, it's really sad. Especially when VW doesnt even sell those products.

Corporate greed at it's best.

BOYCOTT SO-CAL!

[/ QUOTE ]I work for a VW parts company, in the UK this happened to us. VW America sent out cease and destroy orders to the UK. The laugh is they have no legal durastriction over us so there is sod all they can do.
Moon did this to a few years ago; (before they were bought out) again they tried but no durastriction.
Blatant rip off of such things as the MoonEyes sucks, but when it’s a piss take where’s the harm?
Also doesn’t this help So Cal, as these shirts bring more awareness to their brand?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm do I smell bootleg So-Cheap shirts ripping off So-Cal shirts coming from across the pond?

Kinda like those big corporations that run their business from offshore locations.

I think that their (So-Cals) pockets are deeper than yours so I'd back off...at the last minute. Dump your inventory (including the 1,000 shirts that you just happened to order 20 minutes before the letter arrived) for donations (no profit) and go make up some that are a parody of our buddy Speedway Bill. You know Speedy Bill scares the hell out of me in that hat...he reminds me of that preacher guy in Poltergeist. "There Here!"

[KCsledz]

go to any teen stores selling clothing and you will see tons of parodys it happens all the time. Ya they will try to sort it out through the courts but unless its an official slap to the hand by a judge it doesn't mean anything.

[hotrodladycrusr]

So-Cheap, you do not have to hire a laywer to fight them in court, if your a half way intelligent guy, and you seem to be, you can represent yourself. THEY have to PROVE trademark infringment.

I'm not sure what the percentage is, YOU need to investigate, but as long as something that is trademarked is changed a certain percentage, it doesn't break any laws. This is how so many knock-off Harley bar and shield logos are used. Enough of the angles of the lines are changed to fall within the accepted percentage of change.

I'm no laywer but like someone else mentioned, if you broke a trademark law why did they not state the exact law?

If I were you, and since you posted this I'm assuming your asking for opinions, I would file YOUR current "So-Cheap" logo for trademark protection TODAY. If the US Trademark Dept (or whatever they are call) gives you the ok, then that must mean they see enough of the percentage of change and you haven't broken any laws.

I would not answer their letter in any way, shape or form. I would also move all of the products you have with the So-Cheap logo out of your residense plus all the paperwork involved to a safe place and wait till you hear back from the Trademark people. (I have no clue as to how long this might take).

Don't roll over and take this kind of treatment if your within your legal rights. First step is to find out if you are though.

(I LOVE for the edit function here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

[DrJ]

I was just sitting on the throne reading an article in the June PLAYBOY magazine and it dawned on me, Change it to a rectangle!

_________
|________|

or
_________
/________/

Then they will have to send a new cease and De-Acne!

[hotrodladycrusr]

and you came up with a rectangle instead the shape of a tittie???? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[mytlo56]

This needs to make it into a magazine so everyone can give So-Cal the cold shoulder. Stoner, are you out there? Zombie? Anyone?

What a fucking joke.

[ChuckleHead_Al]

SO-CAL, I say screw them, I never liked them anyways!
Bunch of ol'farts. Yeah their ads are SO-Geared for the younger crowd, and in actuality they sell shit that only
SO-Gold Chainer's could afford. I say SO-Change your logo, it'll save you a bunch of SO-Headaches! I hope those faggots are reading this, I HATE YOU SO.CAL for invading TEXAS.. Their future looks grim! Oh yeah how could I get a SO-CHEAP shirt, cause I SO-Want one..

[metalshapes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Funny Ray should mention Walt Disney .. I have allways thought that Alex, Pierson-Bros &amp; Dean Moon got their Logo and paint-sheem-ideas from looking at this little guy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

No, the paint scheme was stolen from a Race Plane the Granville brothers built.

The Gee Bee...



[/ QUOTE ]

Or maybe it wasn't.
I am a member of the general public, and therefore easely confused... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Shit... I'm in for an XL t-shirt. Where do we send the cash???

[mr.midnite]

[ QUOTE ]
THEY have to PROVE copywrite infringment.


[/ QUOTE ]
nothing was said about copywrite infringement, it is about a trademark which is completely different. To file for a trademark will take a few moments and a few dollars. Once the process is in motion it will be anywhere from 6 to 8 months before it is put out for opposition if it even gets that far.
Free legal advice from some that cannot spell or read, Ha Ha, this is some funny stuff

[ray]

[ QUOTE ]
The only one making any money on this deal is the Lawyer.
You can pretty much bet he's getting more than S0-Cheap ever made, and he's getting it by causing bad publicity for the guy who's paying him. That's America! It would be nice if Alex and Clarke could get on the phone and talk to each other, but that's not the way the world works anymore. Sad.

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe we're the last gentlemen left in the country.

if Alex or Pete would call me up personally, and express their concern, they would be heard, and i would likely take some action to accomidate them. but send me a threatening letter from an attorney....you are askin for a fight!

it feels so good to be naive http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hotrodladycrusr]

Copywrite, trademark, YOU got my drift. I'm assuming he did as well. Just throwing in my two cents like everyone else but thanks for correcting my mistake. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[FrameDragger]

I gotta say, since I have registered a few marks myself... I can understand their position to a point, but they are asking for stuff that is almost impossible for you to fulfill, especially when it comes to T-Shirt sales (come on, do you think you can actually track everyone who has one down) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif This says to me that they want a legal fight regardless of how you respond... Unfortunately this will require a lawyer to respond...

One other thought, the latter requests may be a plot to make you think about how solid your tax returns are http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, maybe to help you decide if you want to comply with the cease and desist part...

Good luck man...

[Spitfire1776]

Its called parody....MAD magazine built an empire on it and I 've thanked every day that they did since I was a kid. Its a joke, to be "original" would be missing the whole concept what so ever.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

[ QUOTE ]
Free legal advice from some that cannot spell or read, Ha Ha, this is some funny stuff



[/ QUOTE ]

I know; but you'll let these dumb bastards help you to build a car??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

WTF??? Who pissed in your cheerios dude? Sorry we don't all know everything like you do.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
...
Second: Since when has DrJ started trying to write like Germ?

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif --Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

That was intentional...
Guess you didn't read this part;
"At least I know I won't get a cease and DE-CIST (is that acne removal?) from germ for using "CAPITALIZED ENGLISH-LANGUAGE WORDS" in my verbal-discourse. HE will meet me in an ALLEY at the Fair GROUNDS and we'll SO-LAUGH about this NON-SENSE

[Spitfire1776]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Free legal advice from some that cannot spell or read, Ha Ha, this is some funny stuff



[/ QUOTE ]

I know; but you'll let these dumb bastards help you to build a car??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

WTF??? Who pissed in your cheerios dude? Sorry we don't all know everything like you do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not to mention some of us on here have seen things like this first hand, come and go like the tides.

[hotrodladycrusr]

[ QUOTE ]

One other thought, the latter requests may be a plot to make you think about how solid your tax returns are http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif, maybe to help you decide if you want to comply with the cease and desist part...

Good luck man...


[/ QUOTE ]

YIKES! FrameDragger has a very valid point that I never gave any thought to. The IRS is about the only thing in theis country that really scares me, they have way to much power. Thread lightly if all your ducks aren't in a row.

[mr.midnite]

I never claimed to know everything but I do know if I got a letter from an attorney concerning trademark infringement I would take it as very serious especially from a corporation with the size and resources of SoCal. I also know that I would contact my attorney concerning the legal ramifications. I know I wouldn't ignore it as judges tend to look unfavorably at that. I also know that this won't be won or lost on a message board. I really know most lawyers are pricks until you need one, then their your best friend. And I mostly know that when it comes to legal wrangling, there is NO ROOM for emotions as that's usually the kiss of death. Get past all the emotions and rhetoric on this and there are two clear choices, if you think your right fight it, if you think your in the wrong comply. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
and you came up with a rectangle instead the shape of a tittie???? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I was reading an article, the page is a rectangle...

It was an article by one of the past playmates saying she likes a guy to take 20 minutes nibbleing on her neck, etc. till shes "ready" before going down, then in the next paragraph tells a story about the best ever was a wham-Bam on the back of a fire truck and in a subway "because it was so dangerous and spontaneous"....???
No wonder guys can't figure out what women want, they don't know themselves!

Actually, I bought the mag because I''m a Buffy the Vampire Slayer nut and Charisma Carpenter is in it, Nekid!


Change it to a heart and get that instant coffee company "Cafe de Amor" in your shorts for it!

[Spitfire1776]

Charisma's in Playboy. What month? She puts the wind in my sock, I tell you what.....

[Killer]

was this letter sent certified mail (or something similar requiring your signature) or email?

[CherryBlossom]

[ QUOTE ]
I never claimed to know everything but I do know if I got a letter from an attorney concerning trademark infringement I would take it as very serious especially from a corporation with the size and resources of SoCal. I also know that I would contact my attorney concerning the legal ramifications. I know I wouldn't ignore it as judges tend to look unfavorably at that. I also know that this won't be won or lost on a message board. I really know most lawyers are pricks until you need one, then their your best friend. And I mostly know that when it comes to legal wrangling, there is NO ROOM for emotions as that's usually the kiss of death. Get past all the emotions and rhetoric on this and there are two clear choices, if you think your right fight it, if you think your in the wrong comply. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate to say it, but I totally agree with him.

[65Luck]

We deal with this type of thing from time to time at the company I work for and we've been on both sides of the "cease and desist" letter. It's a pain in the ass no matter how you slice it.

I doubt So-Cal is out to "get" anybody. Whenever a company gains knowledge that their trademark is used in such a way that could be considered infringement or a dilution of the brand, they are obligated to defend that mark. If they fail to defend the mark, they risk having it declared "abandoned" by the USPTO and therefore they may lose their right to protect the mark in future infringement cases.

Get yourself to an IP lawyer and see what they say before you do anything.

[motor mikey]

Wow this is some interesting news. I wouldn't worry about it until somebody shows up at your house with a baseball bat to break your legs. If guys from SO-GAY BATH HOUSE are really on here, I wouldn't say anymore about anything.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
Charisma's in Playboy. What month? She puts the wind in my sock, I tell you what.....

[/ QUOTE ]

JUNE issue on the stands NOW if it's not SOLD OUT!
She's nekid on the cover, and remember, she had a baby a year ago....

[FrameDragger]

Quick Google Search:

http://www.patentfla.com/articles/trademark_parody.htm

"Engaging in trademark parody is a little like shooting at the king. You had better be good at it, because if you attempt and fail, you are in big trouble.

Parody is a defense to trademark infringement.1 The defense is that there is no likelihood of confusion because the parody will not be taken seriously. While it must initially bring to mind the original, it must be clever enough to be clear that it is not the original nor connected with the original, but is a parody, a humorous take-off on the original.

II. Good Parody - Getting it Right

In order to be successful as a defense to infringement, trademark parody must be handled correctly.

The elements of parody are:

i) an original host work;

ii) the original host work must be famous and/or known to the particular target audience;

iii) the creator of the derivative work, the parody, must take only so much of the original work as necessary to bring to mind the original host work; and

iv) the derivative work which conjures up the famous host must result in a new, original work.



Parody, by definition brings to mind the original. It then spoofs the original in some way. Once you have brought the original to mind in connection with a product or name other than the original, one of two things is going to happen, it will either be judged a valid parody, in which case there is no liability, or there will be trademark infringement."





There is more there for you if you are so inclined to read it...

I think you look pretty much ok...

But then again, I am not qualified to judge http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Mike

[flatshoebox]

Make a shirt that say <font color="red"> S0-Cheap So-FUCK YOU! </font> and I'll Buy it for sure! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[repoguy]

I have to admit, considering the fact that you're obviously "the little guy", they could have at least contacted you first and asked nicely if you would create a different logo instead of sicking attorneys on you.

Having actually bought things from So-Cal in the past, I can tell you that it'll be cold day in hell before I buy anything from them again. I choose not to do business with pricks who have lawyers threaten people instead of just trying to settle things in a civil manner. I hope others view this &amp; feel the same way. Word of mouth advertising can be great, but it can also be a real bitch.

Hopefully someone over there at So-Cal is reading this thread.

If I were you I would take one of your shirts &amp; have their atty's letter printed on the back of it and wear it to carshows, and then tell everyone who will listen all about it.

Most of the people in our hobby aren't rich guys (well, except for the guys who buy their hot rods from So-Cal), and I would imagine that most of them would be sympathetic when they heard your story, and I bet some of them would stop buying So-Cal's products (like me for instance).

[=mike=]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charisma's in Playboy. What month? She puts the wind in my sock, I tell you what.....

[/ QUOTE ]

JUNE issue on the stands NOW if it's not SOLD OUT!
She's nekid on the cover, and remember, she had a baby a year ago....

[/ QUOTE ]


Oh shit I'm going to the news stand right now ! ! ! I'm glad I read all this nonsense ! thanks Doc .

[Kilroy]

If I remember correctly, they also have to show that your logo harms or harmed them in some way. That would be incredibly hard to do. They would have to prove that people bought shirts from you, thinking they were So-Cal shirts.

I'll talk to a lawyer I know when I get a chance...

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
oh no, a Hamb boycot..... they may lose 10 bucks on the fucking deal.

YOU RIPPED THEM OFF!

Where are all the artists now? Shouldnt you guys be outraged that anyone ripped anything off? Remember the Weesner post?

YOU CANT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

[/ QUOTE ]

read the weesner post AGAIN...

people were pissed off because of bone head comments about taking it in the ass when your work is pilfured.

i followed that weesner post, and dont recall seeing names of the angery few on this thread...????

[/ QUOTE ]








.......People still don't get it http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif...
Phil,....I get the parody deal,but your(?) logo is quite the same..just a play on words.Hey Nads, there is a big difference between a corporation and a artist trying to make a living......
Phil.I still love ya.....maybe your new club logo will get lifted by So-cal and we can sell send them a cist &amp; destroy letter.
..the artists are here.

[desertdroog]

Repo-Guy brings up EXACTLY what I have been thinking about while reading this thread.

Did they throw a letter at you from a lawyer or did they contact you in a civil way asking you to stop your parody? If it is the former, then I am extremely peeved.

Not so long ago Hot Rod Ron had "CUSTOMER SERVICE" issues with So-Cal in Phoenix. Was So-Cal in the right by putting the onus on Ron? Technically yes, but it is the way they did so that was abrasive. The part was not expensive, it would not have killed So-Cal Phoenix to eat the cost and perhaps garner a new customer for stepping beyond their "modus-operandi". Could So-Cal have gone out of their way just one time and in doing so explain to Ron that in the future any lost merch will have to be researched by him? YOU MOTHERFUCKING BET!

Could So-Cal have taken the time and effort to "RECOMMEND" Phil stop doing a parody of their shop? ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY!

Sure we live in America and sure we survive through capitalism. It is a system that affords all an equal chance through creativity, guile and wit if a person has a better product with safeguards that can or cannot work in your favor.

So-Cal lost all my business and I will never hesitate to bring up the fact that they are not connected with the hobby with the exception of accepting "greenbacks".

Get a lawyer Phil, you need to be legally advised on this situation. The rest of us can focus on supporting the small business' that would enjoy our patronage and follow up with some genuine customer service that keeps customers happy.

Eat a dick So-Cal!

[BigDdy31]

[ QUOTE ]

Dammit, i'm sick of the big corporations always trying to stick it in the little guy's ass.

FUCK soCal.



[/ QUOTE ]

Amen brother. It's like some people want ALL the money. I haven't shopped SoCal before but I sure won't now. And I'll tell everybody I can think of about their lack of sense of humor and their urge to push the little guy around.

Hey if we all make a big deal about this something might get done. Hot rod shit is a niche market and we have a pretty loud voice.

I would suggest So-Cheap get an attorney to check this out and I would also suggest that folks from the HAMB start writing emails to the Contact Us portion of the SoCal webpage. If they are greedy enough to hassle a HAMBer then maybe they're greedy enough to realize that stunts like this will adversely affect their business and 'cease and desist' themselves.

And So-Cheap and any other 'So-something' out there, please let us know how this thing shakes out.

Regards,

Big Daddy Eric

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry if no one else see's the humor in this...but I made my own day when this popped into my head. Hahaha, I'm so funny.

[/ QUOTE ]


that's the coolest thing I have ever seen. I gotta ask, dont you people go to work?

[Chili Phil]

Here's what I think ya should do: Super impose their logo sort of over yours so it reads :"So-Cal Speed Shop is not exactly So-Cheap." It should shut them up and of course, I'll order an XL. Think we can have them by El Mirage next Sunday? I'm offering a free Bloody Caligula at the Good guys gig in Pomona to anybody who wears one.

Phil
Viperssssss…

[Jeff Norwell]

As I said in yer other post Phillee...its all good....publicity ,good, bad or otherwise.....Donald Trump cant be wrong...heh,he hehehehehehe. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[296 V8]

Why so much disrespect for so cal? Dudes have paid their dues a long time ago. In my apenyen some of the biggest rulers / innovators / traditionalists (I thought that’s what this place was about) in this hobby? / sport? Ripping off their logo was wrong you knew it when you did it and you shure as hell know it now. You should show some respect apologies and change your shit before you get your ass kicked in court.

[hankcash]

Just change your logo and the name a bit... like this....
problem solved.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

HC

[hotrodladycrusr]

[ QUOTE ]
I gotta ask, dont you people go to work?



[/ QUOTE ]

I think most of us are AT WORK! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The HAMB at work is about the only thing that keeps me sane............. I can't believe I just used sane and HAMB in the same sentance! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Big A]

This thread is moving faster than a fresh fucked fox in a forest fire. I haven't read through it, just jumped from page 1 to 6 (it'll probably be up to 9 pages before I finish typing this).

1: That letter ain't written by no lawyer. Someone's fuckin' witcha, son.

2: If they are serious, you're beat. Cease and desist. You are in the wrong.

3: Who's this Charisma chick? Is she cute? Does she look like Hankcash's avatar?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

hey, at least it aint about that stupid 31 hack wagon.

[DrJ]

I think Von Frano should sue Von Dutch Originals for logo or mane infringement. He was selling with the von longer than VDO.

(Before they sue him for the same?)
VF, you are a registered company, right?

[hankcash]

deleted

[zonkola]

On the PR angle of all this:

Frankly, I think the whole "there's no such thing as bad publicity" theory is complete bullshit. I keep thinking of DC-10s, Halliburton, and the companies who market Ephedra. That kind of publicity hasn't exactly turned out to be a license to print money. (Besides, Halliburton already has one.)

In this case, I doubt there are many on this board who didn't already know about So-Cal Speed Shop, so the "raising brand awareness" argument doesn't hold much water. However, it looks like some people here will be buying parts somewhere other than So-Cal because of this little incident. How much money will that cost So-Cal?

I'm going to go out on a limb here and offer an incredibly stupid and naive theory of my own on public relations. You can call it "Zonkola's Law":

"Good publicity is good, and bad publicity is bad."

Sometimes a pipe is just a fucking pipe.

[Deyomatic]

Hank, who's the dame?

[williebill]

I haven't read all the posts on this,just the first 2 and then jumped to the end,so I may be repeating the same shit as somebody else,but here goes.With apologies to any that are here,lawyers suck.The system sucks.Justice is a hypothetical mirage.Remember lawyers suck.If you're right,they suck,if you're wrong,they suck.Even your own layer,on your side,sucks.They will bleed you dry on general bullshit,and if you pursue,or fight,you will lose,no matter what.All the advice here to get a lawyer ignores the fact that it will cost you more per hour than you can ever earn.I've fought 2 bullshit cases,I was completely in the right,and it cost a fucking shotload of money.I even hate my own lawyer...so tread slowly..my .02

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
"there's no such thing as bad publicity"

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ask Michael Jackson,or Koby Bryant.

[so-cheap]

I haven't had a chance to read all of the posts. I'll save that for when I get off work.

<font color="red">
Please don't go antagonizing So-Cal or Alex.</font>

I never meant for this post to grow to a slam of So-Cal SS. We all have this love hate relationship with them. We love the fact they sell what they sell. Especially when we need that part. We hate the fact that some camaro driving yutz can walk down and buy all the pieces to build a 32 Roadster and not fabricate anything himself. We also hate that the prices are double and sometimes triple of other places.

Yes it was a parody. Yes I sold a couple of shirts. Did I make any money? No, nill.

Will I sell any more. No.

The cafepress.com/socheap/ site is down. (they must have got a letter).

I had no intention of riding the coattails of So-Cal. I just thought it was funny and knew other people would to.

I met Alex, he is a great guy. He even signed a poster for me in 1999 at the So-Cal SS in Phx. (I'll have to post a pic for ya)

For now thanks for your support.

Good thing I never bought that So-Cheap.com domain..hahaha

[so-cheap]

.

[so-cheap]

Oh yeah. I called the lawyer today. He is out of the office till monday.

[Nads]

Seeing as I have never bought anything from SoCal Speed Shoe I don't I need to support a boycott. My buddy Gary Moore's a SoCal dealer and I have bought stuff from him at swap meets. If'n everybody boycotts SoCal it would hurt my friend's business. I think Mike pegged it with his NoSenseOfHumor logo.
BTW Grimlok the SoCalSpeedShoe idea wasn't mine, I simply posted the pictures. I'll repost them tonight if this post keeps dragging on mastodon style into the tar pits. Which no doubt it will.

[MilesM]

I did not have time to read all of this and also do not usually post on these things but a couple things...

Did I read this right?
Goods and Services IC 025. US 022 039. G &amp; S: clothing, namely, T-shirts, jackets, sweatshirts and headwear.

Some one else mentioned it but it looks like they do not sell car parts anymore, or at least not with the logo!

The Phoenix store used to be called Vintage Ford parts of Arizona, I beleive, and they probalbly recieved a letter like this from Ford.

I will take a L at cost so you do not have to worry about the profit!

Opps, to late for the shirts.

[hotrodladycrusr]

[ QUOTE ]
My buddy Gary Moore's a SoCal dealer and I have bought stuff from him at swap meets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Nads, you talking about the Gary Moore that drives or use to drive a purple convert, 35 maybe, with a lite coral interior? I haven't seen him in years. Wasn't he building a RPU? If it's the same guy, hows he doing and is it done yet?

[Hot Rod Ron]

Hmmm very intresting. Welcome to coperate America. I wounder if So-Cal got this type of letter from Volkswagen about one of their parts that So-Cal says they built.

[repoguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Why so much disrespect for so cal? Dudes have paid their dues a long time ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because there are 2 ways of handling something, you can be civil or you can be an asshole. Looks to most of us like SoCal chose option #2.

Maybe you believe that "paying dues" entitles one to be a heartless prick and bully the little guy, but most people don't.

[KCMongo]

Damn, this means I'm gonna have to go steal the shirt I gave to Raven back..
<--- Fat boy only bought a LARGE had to give it away.
I'd give em' a call up and talk to them about it, I agree this is more likely a Lawyer problem VS one with the actual guys there..

So you guys think this might be a bad time to launch my new magazine "Rust &amp; Corrosion"
http://www.mongosgarage.com/avatars/R&amp;C.JPG

MONGO

[DrJ]

I thought LOWERED EXPECTATIONS would be a good name for a custom club for "builders" but wife reminded it's being used by MAD TV for one of their running joke skits....

[Jeff Norwell]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"there's no such thing as bad publicity"

[/ QUOTE ]

Just ask Michael Jackson,or Koby Bryant.

[/ QUOTE ]





.....the money is still roll'ing in....

[QQMOON]

Unbelevable

[Slick Willie]

So who? I completely forgot what post was about was hypnotized by Hank Cash's dancing girl! Thanks Hank .

Slick Willie

[old beet]

Nuff Said..................OLDBEET

[PEDDRO]

I don't like it, the back wheels are TOO big and it must be REALLY hard to drive 'cos I'm an old man and I can't see the sense of humour in it. Why would you f#ck up a perfectly good 5W to do that?

Oh, shit.....WRONG THREAD!




Is TECH WEEK next week?

[geno_86ed]

These days lawyers can go and fuck everything up. In the end nothing is resolved and no one is happy except the lawyer when he cashes a check.

Tell them to fuck off. They must feel threatened that you are encouraging people to build their own shit, instead of ordering parts from So-Cal.

Geno

[=mike=]

[ QUOTE ]

3: Who's this Charisma chick? Is she cute? Does she look like Hankcash's avatar?

[/ QUOTE ]


http://img.actressarchives.com/charisma/cc080.jpg

[Mutt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My buddy Gary Moore's a SoCal dealer and I have bought stuff from him at swap meets.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey Nads, you talking about the Gary Moore that drives or use to drive a purple convert, 35 maybe, with a lite coral interior? I haven't seen him in years. Wasn't he building a RPU? If it's the same guy, hows he doing and is it done yet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Denise - That's the same Gary. He was at the Bradenton Drags last fall with a Rambler American S/W gasser. He used to have this '32 in the 90's. He goes through cars faster than Marcus.. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mutt

[onelow48]

Some people just don't git it! You are doing them a faver.
I'm sure people who see your logo ask you what it means.
Thus leading into a conversaion. Witch intern "BAMM" free
advertizing.

[scooter]

XXL for me , i have wanted to have a couple of those shirts and stickers for a while now ... BTW that suxs and chickenshit is right !I still can not belive that a simple personal phone call or personal face to face meeting could 'nt have solved this whole thing .Instead Lawyers have to get involved W/ one guy who makes no money on a t-shirt deal .

[296 V8]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why so much disrespect for so cal? Dudes have paid their dues a long time ago.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? Because there are 2 ways of handling something, you can be civil or you can be an asshole. Looks to most of us like SoCal chose option #2.

Maybe you believe that "paying dues" entitles one to be a heartless prick and bully the little guy, but most people don't.



[/ QUOTE ] And which option do you use REPOGUY before you come and take someones car. Do you give them a nice phone call asking them to please leave the keys in it. You the pot or the kettel? Or are you like the other hypercrite sheeple on here that think a guy with a big business he has built up needs to give it away because your to jealous and or lazy to build one yourself.

[Brootal]

I was looking for some info on building some cupboards and I just stumbled across these CHARISMA CARPENTER PICS (http://www.digitalstar.com/DMan3/?Album=Charisma+Carpenter)... honest... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Hey DrJ, maybe next time I'm in the US we can have a SlayerFest!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[CheatersPete]

Can't beleive it
Here in Europe, So-cal is very famous! It's a Must for all the ''Vondutch '' guys
for sure i'm going to order So cheap teeshirt now!
and wear it for big meeting!!!!

Fuck the factory customize

[ESnacky6]

I say we wear the patches upside down like they did with
Harley Davidson... Fuck the factory..!!

or the tried and true circle/slash, or how about BOTH..!!!

I think SoCal SS will get more bad publicity than anything,
but as we all know, ANY publicity is good publicity......

[Flatdog]

went to midway diner on the way to carlile ordered breakfast and a large tomato juice, waitress brought me a large canadain goose, i just wanted in on this thread Flatdog

[hatch]

My dream ride is STILL Jenifer Aniston on top of a dryer at the local laundromat...dripping with sweat...

[CharlieLed]

....

[RileyRacing]

I was hoping that pic would come out... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Play with fire and get burned. And yes, we drive an import and shop at Wal Mart. It's America, get over it.

Jay

FWIW, I love the so-cheap stuff. And corporate greed sux. I hope that it works out for ya, so cheap...

[scarylarry]

I dont know nuthin. I just think its funny that Sowhat Clarks name keeps getting used for So cheap. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[hatch]

no, no, no...sowhat's on "second"!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

So Gay's on third http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
CLARK

[Deuce Roadster]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





I may be mistaken.......but I believe they have to sue you where this offense/violation occured. In PA. I do not see them coming to PA over a few shirts. I was sued by a low-life, lying, check forging SOB a few years ago and he lives elsewhere......he had to sue me in my hometown. He got $500.......just because the jury wanted to go home......could not agree and gave him $500.It cost him more than that. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Talk to the lawyer......

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[skipstitch]

Hmmmm... 13 pages and all I can think about is Jennifer Anniston and a laundry mat... I feel SO CHEAP http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[badpat]

more

[Stovebolt]

After plowing my thru 13 very enjoyable pages of banter, I'd have to say FUCK big business and business man with little dicks!!

Time they all loosened up, and saw the humour in what was an indirect plug for their "SO-COOL" ploy to get the gold chainers to part with their green so they can get into their SO-GAY clone and eat shitty burgers with their fellow small minded SO-GAY clone owners.

fuck - can;t even say "your fired" 'cause some guy with a bad hair do has made a claim on it!!! Get real!!!

What's next - you can't use a tube crossmember in your duece chassis, 'cause it looks a little like the one that some-one else markets??? Or you can't use Buick Brake Drums as it looks a little like the ones we produce.

I'll order any number of the upside down "NO SO_GAY Spoon Shop" tm logos.

To get around the problem - look into registering your company off-shore, and use a series of companies all headed up by a dog to hide the real ownership of the "So-Cheap" logo. Just a thought. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[daren]

So you folks that want a so-cheap shirt just go buy a tee and get the so-cheap logo printed on your own shirt. You're not selling anything or makin a profit if you make it for yourself. I guess I can fuck off at work since my boss can't tell me "you're fired" since its copyrighted now...

[Thirdyfivepickup]

Big A tires (a tire shop with multiple stores) is suing my place of employment over our house brand Big End...

BECAUSE IT USES THE WORD 'BIG' IN THE TITLE!
(different fonts, different colors... ours is in all caps there's isnt... and

BIG END DOESN'T SELL TIRES!

(see phrase below...)

[Mojo]

I don't know law. I do however have some clients that are lawyers. I believe (feel free to correct me with great enthusiasm) that lawyers are paid based on their legal actions... in that if they bust someone for trademark or copyright infringment, then they can bill their client time for their work.

Their client doesn't even have to be aware of the law offices' activity... in other words the client doesn't have to say "sic em!". The law office does some leg work, finds someone "guilty", gets some damages or a settlement from them, and then bill's their client for protecting their interest.

Maybe Alex doesn't know? My basic business belief system: "When in doubt, follow the money". Who's making the money on trademark/copywrite infringment cases? The lawyers...

BTW, Charisma?... i'd hit it, and then take a pill and hit it for 4 more hours. If I hit it for more than 4 hours, i'd contact a physician immediately... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[hemi]

I just read the first page, and on account of having to get up early tomorrow for work, bypassed the next 13 or so pages of Hamb Banter (TM)...forgive me if I repeat anything that's been said but...

Having just jumped through two years of hoops with Dorf Motor Company and their "ownership" of the adjective "Boss"...all I can say is be prepared.

You have a leg to stand on on the grounds of parody, which is legal, and you have a leg to stand on, if you can prove it, about not creating "confusion in the marketplace" which needs a really good lawyer. Be prepared, if you go forward, to spend some cash, and wrangle with law crap for a few years.

Dorf Motor Company's law jerks filed every extension they could, dragging out both my time, and their ability to bill Dorf Motor Company for every step. Basically all that to fill out two pages of writing. Took a year and a half. This was a protest of a trademark application, but it was an infringement just the same.

Basically, they will bleed you to death, and if you continue to operate after you have been served the cease and desist letter, and then you are found to be in the wrong, it is my understanding that they can then sue you for "damages".

It sucks.
It's life...bring a truck load of cash or go home.

Good luck.

Here's a link if you haven't already been there:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/trademark/faq.cgi#QID250

and this is a good place for most everything:
http://www.nolo.com/

[Uncle Pancakes]

If this is on the level and the So-Cal folks know about it (its not just their lawyers running amok) they have just lost my business. I fully understand a business protecting its name and trademark from serious infringment but this is a bit over the top. So-What and So-Cheap both are not major business threats to So-Cal commercially or in any other way. For a shop that started out small years ago, that was started by hot rodders to serve fellow hot rodders to now go after guys who are do it themself hotrodders just sticks in my craw! I hope that saner heads at So-Cal will prevail and stop this thing in its tracks, if not they have not only lost my business but a fair amount of my respect for them as business people, or should I say as just plain old rational thinking people period! I'm afraid the legal profession has a lot to answer for in this country for what they have done to help stifle small business etc. with the looming shadow of liablitiy and the threat of legal action or suit against you from large corporate interests....

[53_210]

Not the point, or really that relavent, but I don't think anyone buying a SO-Cheap shirt would be buying anything from SO-CAL in the first place.

Deke

[McPhail]

Why am I still not understanding what the problem is with SoCal?....Dude, you intentionally misrepresented their logo and name, that they, not you, invested time and money building up a reputation for......I just don't understand why you are getting upset, or why anyone else on this board would be upset, about them protecting their domain. Parody or not, why can't you just come upwith an original idea of your own?...... someone a few comments back stated that MY point of view was one of the things making America weak. I really took offense to that. I don't think there are too many people here that are more patriotic than I try to be. I'm NOT sticking up for big business, I'm NOT saying the little guy is wrong here either, what I AM saying is that we need more ORIGINAL ideas, and too many folks take the easy way out of situations. The gag was humourous at first. SoCal asked you to stop.....what's the big deal?..... you guys are going to boycott a company with quality stuff, which IS expensive, because you think they are trying to keep the LITTLE GUY down?...... open your eyes here....... I would be embarrassed if the only original idea I had was a parody of someone elses idea........Is there ANYONE ELSE on this board that sees my point of view?.... please tell me if I'm wrong here....and please state an intelligent point of view...... not a just because 'they charge too much for parts' and I'm a broke-ass loser so I'm mad at them reasoning........

[Roadsters.com]

Dennis, I completely agree with what you just said, and with what you said about this earlier. Quote:

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. As mentioned before, a couple weeks ago HAMBers were ready to hang people for art that was "kinda" close to Keith Weesner's. And although your art is "technically" different from So-Cal's, it's quite OBVIOUS that the "gimmick" of your logo was to intentionally resemble the So-Cal name and logo. I have nothing against So-Cheap or anyone affiliated with it whatsoever, so please don't take this as a personal attack. But I say hey, if you made a few bucks off shirts, consider it a good run and cut your losses now. If So-Cheap is a legitimate business or shop then you should have no problem whatsoever creating your OWN logo and corporate identity. Why would you even want to have something associated with your company that even faintly resembled anything else unless you purposely intended on riding on someone elses name?. That's where the ripoff is. I would suppose you could rightfully argue that the art IS TECHNICALLY different enough, but the intent of resemblance is blatantly obvious. Now, that being said, this is NOT a little guy versus big company thing at all. These copyright laws and artistic licenses are put in place to protect everyone - even companies that make more money than you. Justice is blind. I have wondered how long it was going to take for awhile now anyways, and I almost said something about this when the Weesner post came up. Principles mean nothing if you only stick by them when it's easy to do so.

[leadsled]

Good luck if you choose to fight it. Have some defense fund t-shirts made. I'm in line to buy one. Tim

[CherryBlossom]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there ANYONE ELSE on this board that sees my point of view?....

[/ QUOTE ]

I do http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[scarylarry]

Last look for me on this one.Seems to me that so cheap is NOT bitching that he got the letter, just metioned it here. EVERYONE ELSE is bitching! His later post said he didn't want to piss em off anymore (make more trouble for himself) Time for tech week yet?? Jalopy Showdown next week!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[mr.midnite]

[ QUOTE ]
Is there ANYONE ELSE on this board that sees my point of view?

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too!
I cannot comprehend some of the responses to this. What makes SoCal who they are is their image, where they have been and what they have done. That logo is a big part of their image. They don't want anyone capping on that image and they have the right to protect it. This isn't big vs. little, it's about right and wrong, legal and not. The "let's stick up for our friend because the bully is picking on him" sentiment is misguided.

[JamesG]

I agree with McPhail, but I do know this. My buddy owns a sign shop. He does billboards and all kinds of stuff, but he also sets' up at shop and sales those silly stickers like Calvin pissing and what-not. Well I asked him how that works because he sales stikers that look like COKE, or CHEVROLET and he said that all he has to do to be "legal" is slightly alter the image(like slant it a little), and he's free and clear. My 2 cents. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[texastramp]

No matter what else has been said on this subject , in my opinion McPhail was right with his first post two days ago and he's still right now. Any thing else is double standards -------just my opinion

[Hot Rod To Hell]

As far as the parody thing goes, So-Cheap seems right on to me. As far as trying to claim it as an original design or something, that is ridiculous. I agree with McPhail, in that they said "stop", so stop. BUT... I TOTALLY disagree with the way they handled it. If they truly are "hot rodders", and not just a bunch of cash whores, how hard would it have been to make a phone call?

Seriously SO-CHEAP, if you got a call:

"Hey man, this is Alex from So-Cal. I saw your website... Those shirts are pretty funny, but we're a little concerned that people might get your company confused with ours. Can I get you to change the design?"

Would this have even been an issue? Would anyone on the HAMB still be pissed? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Django]

You are right Dennis, but it IS a PARODY. I think it can still be successful and relate to SoCal just by the name. He just happened to use the MOST recognizable logo to copy for the parody. They have about 7 other ways their name appears. Just use one of them. Or come up with something different. The name itself really is the parody. They want you to stop using that logo. Fine. No problem. They don't say anything about the name itself. Talk to your attorney, and develop a new logo for SoCheap. It still is a valid brand and parody and I would still buy one. You don't need the oval shape for it to continue the sentiment. The name itself achieves that.

http://www.est1946.com/ProductImages///clothing03/classicts/truckdoor.jpg

[zman]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with McPhail, but I do know this. My buddy owns a sign shop. He does billboards and all kinds of stuff, but he also sets' up at shop and sales those silly stickers like Calvin pissing and what-not. Well I asked him how that works because he sales stikers that look like COKE, or CHEVROLET and he said that all he has to do to be "legal" is slightly alter the image(like slant it a little), and he's free and clear. My 2 cents. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

And your Buddy is SO-WRONG. If he thinks that gets him off, he is on the pipe. They just haven't gotten to hime yet. Around here teh copyright/trademark police have been visiting flea markets and confiscating these kind of items.

[whitewallslick]

Seems kind of obvious to me but why not call Alex, let him know you did it as a parody, tell him you'll stop selling the stuff immediately (honor your end of the deal, stop selling the stuff), &amp; ask him to please call off the dogs. If he's the nice guy everyone says he is, I'm sure he'll end the matter. Just a thought ... WWS

[FrameDragger]

wws... Do you think that will still work if they are aware of this post (and the volume of people who have already pledged to boycot So-cal)? Maybe best for So-Cheap if this post is deleted all togather... Not always a good idea to continue to poke a pitbull... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[lowburban]

Just another view. A while back my wife, me, and my mother -in-law were threatened with a letter from the lawyers of some relatives who were crazy that said they were sueing us for shit we stloe from them. They tried reporting it to the Police who quickly realized that they were crazy old people. This did not work but their lawyers were happy to sue us over it. They had accused other family members in the past including sisters and daughters. We are talking about things like baby diapers ( there son was 46), old family photo's, magazines, clothes from 30-40 years ago,and various other crap of no monetary value to anyone, all of which they actually listed in their letter. The worst part was that our lawyer told us that there was no way to stop them and anytime they chose to bring another suit we would have to keep fighting it and ie> spending money. They were pretty well off and could have put a serious hurt on us as we are both teachers and not exactly what you would call wealthy. It sounds terrible but the good Lord took her on home and incapacitated him so the whole thing was dropped. It would be much more feasible to settle it with them( get their permission, etc..)and move on. My2Cents http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Nads]

FrameGragger, the last time I kept poking a pitbull continuously my thingy got real sore.

And sorry Dennis et al, I still don't agree with your positions, this is a parody, it's not a ripoff. The intent was plain and simple, it was to validate the DIY aesthetic as opposed to simply ordering parts from a catalog.
And lets be honest SoCal is no more a speed shop than Moon, but I do respect their right to exist.
Personally, as many times as Speedway's screwed up my orders, they really are a speed shop despite that.

It would be like having an act with two queeny Germans of indertiminite race lip synching very badly to shitty synthpop, and calling yourself Villi Manilli. Sure there's a resemblance to the disgraced originals but do you think the surviving member that didn't do himself in could possibly sue me for my brilliant idea?

With all due respect Dennis, the art you do owes a great debt to many things that came before. I love your work but I bet if someone wanted to they could finding something to take you to task over. And it would be easy because there are millions and millions of pieces of art out there.

I think most of us here are simply rearrangers, that's part and parcel of what we do.

I've never done anything original myself, except pissing out of the back of a Suzuki Samurai as it was being driven down the road at 45 mph. Even that backfired, something about the flow of air back there made the wizz splash me right in the face.
Damn if I didn't deserve it.

[metalshapes]

What Alex Xydias accomplished in the early days of Hot Rodding earned him a level of respect that can not be taken away IMO, even if we don't have to like every thing that happens today.
If it is even him, doing any of this...
Maybe we are as outdated in the way we look at things as the cars we drive.
And maybe that is a good thing...

[Byron Crump]

Ughhh, I read this whole thing...I agree with grand master Dennis on this. I also think it is odd how this is so on the other end of things from the Weesner stuff from a few weeks ago.

Has this one bypassed the thing with the chopped down A on replys and views yet? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[k-member]

?????????... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[DrJ]

Nads pissin into the wind... what a mental picture! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I agree with some of what Dennis said...
In principle.
I agree with the part about there needs to be more artistic energy expelled coming up with NEW artistic ideas instead of wasting energy on how to rearrange someone else's ideas enough to not get in trouble for it.
But that has been what Artists have done for Millenia.
The Romans ripped off the Greek's statue ideas, but changed them just enough to call them "different" and they even took the rip-off one step further. They pulled a "VDO" on the "art" of sculpture by making plaster molds of the different sections of limbs of small statues and slip casting them in clay and then assembled the pieces in different poses, fired them and called each one an "original"!

Do all you Tattoo artists do nothing but your own original art on clients? or do you Tat whatever the person wants to pay for?

I think if no artist created (or presented to thepublic) anything unless he knew it wasn't even similar to what anyone else was doing there would be very little art around to enjoy. There wouldn't be or have been any "styles" or movements in art if artists hadn't copied each other to some extent.
All those "swoosh" graphics back in the 80's wouldn't have exsted without copying or at least having the experience of seeing works of Calder or Picasso or Miro.

Non of us lives or works in a vacuum, although I saw that twister vacuum up a house in Kansas on the news last night... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

PETERBUILT badge is an oval too isn't it? only it's red...

The Oval is the issue here... I had a good chuckle last night while watching the news on TV.
A SUBARU commercial came on and showed a closeup of the front of their latest 4 door "Sport sedan" yep The SUBARU Logo stars ar in a BLUE OVAL.
(or does FORD own Subaru too now?)

This issue and thread should be dead because So-Cheap has already said he's quitting the logo in question.
But is So-Cal going to go after anybody with a (stolen from) Gee Bee Racer scallop on their logo or car?

[visor]

So-Cheep........
The smart thing to do would be to get that name
trademarked asap! If you have to change the logo somewhat
to fit the parody guidelines.. so be it.
If you don't hold on to the name, someone else will probably
try and run with it.

Hell.. its part of hot rod history now man.
(Can't you just picture that So-Cheep logo on
a H.A.M.B. digger?) Pictures please......

Alex(with all due respect) should be calling you anyday
to make a deal for the
the exclusive rights to sell So-Cheep shirts in
there catalog. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
If ya can't beatin................
Everybody wins, everybodys happy.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Whats with you in that So-Cal hat all the time"

[whodaky]

So much to agree or disagree with on this thread. Amazes me that if any So Cal people have been reading this that they haven't had the balls to post a reply of some sort. That in itself tells me something.
I think Visor's view on So Cal obtaining the So Cheap rights is an interesting point. Now that would make good business sense, one would think. But would that mean So Cheap would be selling out to da man. Who knows, because it ain't gonna happen.
For people who think this thread is a waste of space, well I think you are wrong, like any thread on here, it has generated discussion and that can only be good and educational. There's a lot to be said for not burying one's head in the sand!

[sedan_dad]

I bought a So-Cal t shirt last yrae.Whats their fucking address?I'm sending it back.And maybe a note saying
"The H.A.M.B. see's all" "The H.A.M.B. 's not happy"
I want a So-Cheap instead.I'll ware that one with pride!

[Junkyard Dog 32]

Look at the views and replies to this thread!!!

You CAN'T tell me this isn't hurting So-Cal...
What an ironic twist of fate, huh?
A few T-shirts could cost them thousands of dollars in lost business. As it should be...

JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Roadsters.com]

There's only one person who's entitled to speak on behalf of the HAMB, and you're not him.

By the way, I'm a part of the HAMB, and I'm not unhappy.

Dave Mann
http://www.roadsters.com/

[Roadsters.com]

[ QUOTE ]
Amazes me that if any So Cal people have been reading this that they haven't had the balls to post a reply of some sort. That in itself tells me something.

[/ QUOTE ]

What it tells me is that since it's a legal matter, they are waiting for an official response from the guy they sent the letter to.

For that matter, the guy who started this thread hasn't had much to say since then, other than that the attorney is out of the office until Monday.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Like I said ten pages ago, I'm not boycotting a fucking thing, he tried to make a funny joke and they told him to stop. They have the right.

Boycott a bunch of parts you broke dicks cant afford to buy anyway? I'm sure they really feel the revolt over at So-Cal.

Come on guys, surely there must be something else cool to talk about.

[daign]

I'm with Mcphail.. You boycotters wouldn't buy their products anyway so whats it matter? All you guys with pitchforks and torches outside the gates of Socal Speedshop are pretty fucking funny to me right now.

Shouldn't you be in the garage "Building it So-Cheap?"

[mr.midnite]

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't you be in the garage "Building it So-Cheap?"

[/ QUOTE ]
you are So-Right

[Killer]

[ QUOTE ]
Boycott a bunch of parts you broke dicks cant afford to buy anyway? I'm sure they really feel the revolt over at So-Cal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Paul, I think I love you!!!!!!

SoCal doesn't give a fuck what you guys think.

Pick up a phone and call. Ask for Tony. Tell him your boycotting. I'd love to hear the response.

And I will never, ever, ever, ever ADMIT I agree with Dennis.


Cause he's a fag.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

SoCal is for yuppie rodders that can't build anything.
I don't need their overpriced stuff. Then again brand name stuff never impressed me.
Clark

[cleatus]

whoohoo TEN pages!!!!.......coool!!!


PARODY, PARODY, PARODY

[JamesG]

If you ask me this is some of the best FREE advertisment So-Cal's ever had. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Tman]

I hope you guys still talk to me even though I have a plain chrome SoCal License plate frame and headlight swith knob? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

lets get back to important topics, like how do birds fuck? I have never once seen a Pigeon with a hard-on! How do they do it?

[Fat Cat]

[ QUOTE ]
How do they do it?

[/ QUOTE ]

In the air man just look up sometimes. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fab32]

1Load, I didn't hear anyone ask you.

Frank

[Germ]

I was in the MUSIC business,It was HOBBY I started at 14 I actually released a few FAMOUS records on the PRODUCTION side and Got ROBBED when the BANDS signed to BIG LABELS....................Doing this and being INVOLVED in the MUSIC scene allowed me to See alot of Stuff That has gone on to create FOLLOWINGS... it allowed me to KNOW people and AQUIRE certain things, I use to Tape BANDS in My basement, on DAT and 4 track, or at Local venues using High tech equipment, fed into the Clubs SOUNDBOARD....

We had a PUNK HOUSE, and EVERYONE stayed there.......

I taped Stuff Like OPERATION IVYS last Show,
early SWINGIN UTTERS
Early U.S. BOMBS
The INSAINTS arrest show
ALL early TURBONEGRO shows
Rancids First show...
All the GRINDCORE and HARDCORE...
even POP BANDS. like FACE to FACE....
Greendays Basement Gigs...
and various Live shows...
A.F.I. demo recordings....
All kinds of "NOW FAMOUS" bands...

Well I made money with PERMISSION from BANDS to RELEASE the RECORDINGS to the UNDERGROUND,,,
Then I paid for them to PRESS singles or RECORDS, and Got them GIGS.......

I liked the MUSIC and loved the OLD PUNKER SCENE....
Well I traded MUSIC with these MUSIC STARS....

When A.F.I signed to NITRO RECORDS, which is a SIDE LABEL to the MIGHTY CORPORATE MACHINE,,,

I had LAWYERS crawling up my ASS claiming RIGHTS to my RECORDINGS, then Sending LETTERS to SHUT down my DUPLICATION projects, and CD and CASSETTE sales... I made as much money as a GOOD drug dealer...
It was a LEGIT BUSINESS,,,

I kept SELLING, and they CAME to VISIT...
trying to MUSCLE ME,, with CONTRACTS that these bands SIGNED over all their old RIGHTS, so I lose my 50% ownership...

I never DID paper work it was WORD of MOUTH...
I never TURNED OVER PROFIT reports, and STOPPED selling cause I had NO LEGAL fee's and it's a MONEY GAME,,,,

The LAWSUIT was PENDING But I DROPPED out and AWAY...
and stopped any involvement with Recording bands....or selling copies.....

I know the BUSINESS, and Know enough how to MANIPULATE it ....

I will DIE with the RECORDINGS and NOBODY will ever HEAR them..
I sold a recording and parts of it were turned into a RAMONES live ALBUM,
and I donated alot of the MUSIC to PENELOPE when she RELEASED the AVENGERS live C.D.............

Oh and I sold the ORIGINAL DEFTONES demo recording.
after they WENT BIG,,,,
Were talking BIG money for a DUSTY MASTER........

I hate FUCKING MUSIC people cause they FORGET their TRUE FRIENDS, when they PUT on the ROCK STAR costume....

My advice to you is to KEEP SELLING the shirts...

The LEGAL SYSTEM has a MILLION STRUCTURES, and you can PLAY their GAME without an ATTORNY....
Threats are IDLE, and ACTING on them IS TIME CONSUMING...

I got SCARED, But KEPT REFUSING to TURN OVER any of my RECORDINGS,,,,
I was JUST SCARED of the MONEY I never CLAIMED on my taxes,,,

They can still KISS my ASS,
In the back of my mind
I'm working on an UNDERGROUD DOCUMENTRY kind of THING, I also have VIDEO of Most of the BANDS......

And you would shit if you saw the collection of LIVE BANDS....and demos,,,,,

I feel like I documented a PART of the MID to late 80's PUNK SCENE, and into the 90's till 95 when the LEGALITY struck.......
I want others to SEE and hear some of the MOST AMAZING band footage, yet the BIG GUYS scare ME to DEATH...................

What the Fuck can you do.....

They were YELLING IN MY EAR...........

[Germ]

I wish I could sue people for ruining my FUN HOBBY with RAT RODS and FAKE BIRD shit,,,and BIG fat RED HEADED PIGS with WINE glass TATTOOS, and PIGEON FEET................

In california they CHANGED the name of the "MODEL A" to its NEW NAME... ""Model SKELETON HAS LAKES HISTORY""....(tm)

And El MIRAGE will hold the NEXT KULTUREPATINASTOCK(tm)
And GREASER faggots will bring their LAWN ORNAMENTS and wear CLUB JACKETS that cost more then their 4 BARRELS..............

Waiting on the P.P.E. to be COPIED where you DRIVE it BACKWARDS.... and tHE DRIVE SHAFT Tunnel becomes a ROOM DIVIDER so you dont have to Smell that TOAD riding SHOTGUN...

How about a DIGGER, where you DRive from the RUMBLE SEAT...and 97's BOLTED to the COWL, Just so you can SHOW us HOW many you have collected...............

At least people cant PRETEND to be HELLS ANGELS....

germ

[nomobux]

Whad he say ?? GERM -- Yer great !!

[Phil1934]

I got a nasty letter once about a retirement plan after the company had tried to screw me out of it and it got paid anyways. They wanted it back. I called a friendly attorney for advice. He asked "Did it come certified mail?" I told him no, so he said throw it away. I never heard any more. So stop making them but don't sweat the interrogatory. They don't want to sue you for the profits on a few shirts and hire auditors to verify the numbers, etc. A lot of companies send a threatening letter hoping it's enough. Take the not so subtle hint, but don't start burying your money in the backyard.

[Germ]

Dont you Guys do the SAME thing when you try to make a PARODY into a HOT ROD???
By adding a SHIT motor, a suicide front end, 15" wheels, white walls, and PIN STRIPES.....

Thats a PARODY on WHEELS....
with a DYKE making MOTOR NOISES.....

The HOT ROD CIRCUS is a SCIENCE FAIR......

PARODY IN MOTION(tm) is when you build the frame higher then the ROOF,,,????

SO-CAL RULES!!!!
No matter what you Say they DID or DO...
Alex has the NEATEST collection of HOT RODDING HISTORY I have ever seen....
I jerked it to those POST CARDS with his COLLECTION on them while I was aboard the GREYHOUND bus....
No Lube is EASY, when the LIGHTS are out..

Just thought about GETTING home to my chicks ass and then falling asleep in her PERFECT tits....

BUILT SO-CAL ROCKABILITY (tm)........

JiMMY SHINED MY ROCK BRACELET

[48_HEMI]

Alex is a rodder I have pictures of his streamliner in primer in 1950. I doubt if he considered himself a rat rodder http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
.
I've known Pete since he was a counter person at Blairs Speed Shop in Pasadena. Not a lot of personality. all business. what do want, here it is. But he was a very knowledgible rodder, When Pete and Jake started business and moved to the Las Tunas location, they were neighbors, but I had no need of their Parts. I would laugh when people said "THE CALIFORNIA KID" put him on the map.PETE and JAKES was built with long hours and hard work. attension to details building quality parts and marketing them. He built that car for himself and someone decided to use it in a movie. Those coupes made trips all over the map and certainly not on trailers. they were not built for car shows or cruise ins. I doubt they had room for folding chairs.sure had room for an ice chest!
The latest issue of Drive has Petes column talking of DRIVING his Dad's 27 to The Roundup and partying at the Contintal Club with real rodders. Doesn't sound like a fag or an asshole to me
Let me say that "I've known Pete" doesn't mean were friends. just another rodder that I crossed paths with continually for the last 35 years.
A letter is just a letter nothing more. Business is business. and rodding is rodding. and there is not one person on this board that has done more rodding than Alex, or Pete. And If there is I'd like to buy you a beer! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Jim Arnold
The Old Car Glass Guy

[axle]

i havent read EVERY single reply so forgive me if this has been said allready but here goes my little 2 cents.
about 13 or 14 years ago i worked for mooneyes (they legally couldn't call it moon-equipment any longer due to dean's major debts). the japanese bought it from hot rod greg who managed to fck the business up and run it to the ground.... the japanese are still the current owners and doing very well. i traveled all over the U.S. and attended every major street rod event.
rod accessory companies were selling moon logo patches,stickers,shirts,hats,etc and as long as these people changed the logo at least 30% there was nothing anyone could legally do.
things may have changed over the years....i dont know.

[Dago Red]

[ QUOTE ]
...he tried to make a funny joke and they told him to stop. They have the right.


[/ QUOTE ]

No, they don't have the right to tell him to stop. The Supreme Court case Campbell v. Acuff-Rose Music, Inc.(1994) firmly established parody as within the scope of the fair-use exception in the Copyright Act.

[D Picasso]

I've got your Potrezebie right here. I'll raise you a Furschluginner.

Will Elder is my life's blood.

[Unkl Ian]

[ QUOTE ]
parody as within the scope of the fair-use exception in the Copyright Act.

[/ QUOTE ]


"Fair Use" does not include making money in the same market place.

Making the artwork could be considered Fair Use,selling copies would not.

[Dago Red]

[ QUOTE ]
I've got your Potrezebie right here. I'll raise you a Furschluginner.

Will Elder is my life's blood.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny, last night I was rereading 'Starchie' for about the millionth time, and thinking "Damn, Bill Elder was good."

So as not to completely derail this thread, I'll tack on the splash panel from 'Superduperman' (Wally Wood was no slouch either), which as I recall, caused a little legal spat between DC and EC. It was decided that, since it was an obvious parody, EC was in the clear. It's fifty years later, and Mad is still doing exactly the same thing as So-Cheap.

[Big A]

Dago, feel free to derail this thread. Please do.

Is this horse dead yet? Or shall we beat it some more?

[Unkl Ian]

Dead Horse Beating has replaced the popular feature,Drama Week.

[so-cheap]

<font color="blue">
"Hey man, this is Alex from So-Cal. I saw your
website... Those shirts are pretty funny, but
we're a little concerned that people might get
your company confused with ours. Can I get you
to change the design?"

</font>

"Hey Alex, how's life in So-Cal? So you don't
like my design? You know you laughed when you
saw it, huh? Yeah, I could change it.


So when are you going to come over for a ride
in my 54 Coronet with a 440 Big Block? That
bitch screams like a sack-o-whores!!! So what
color do you think I should paint it? .....
...Red and white huh? Nah..."