Indy Open Record Book?

[GMC BUBBA]

Well i guess we will have a "open" record book for Indy ?
The new record will be in the HA/GR non automatic class ???

HA/GR-NA

Hiney has the record locked up for the automatic cars ( there seems to be only one) and one record.

Who has the fastest non automatic car?? Is that you Mr Mac ??? What is that record.??

If anyone thinks this is stirring it up, you are right we are! I would love to have a glide in mine.
But the rules say no automatics.

I still love ya Hiney, its just time to join the crowd.....???:) :)

[Mr. Mac]

Well Now! I think we would be the fastest non automatic car Bubba at 12.43. I'm sure the competion will be stiff this summer.Guess we better get off our ass and tune that Flathead.:D :D

[Ron Golden]

Bubba,

I agree 100% about running a glide. I know Godzilla feels the same and I'm sure others do too. Running a manual tranny and slipping the clutch didn't work for Don Garlits and I don't think it's best for us.

NHRA nostalgia cars may look old but I know their not running the old equipment. Their running the latest technology available. Two speed manual trannys and slipping clutches had their time but, there are better ways to do it today.

Rules should be subject to change for the betterment of the class. Maybe after this season automatics could be optional.

Now, I'm not trying to start another pissing contest, I'm just thinking out loud and looking for suggestions.

Ron

[GMC BUBBA]

Bubba,

I agree 100% about running a glide. I know Godzilla feels the same and I'm sure others do too. Running a manual tranny and slipping the clutch didn't work for Don Garlits and I don't think it's best for us.

NHRA nostalgia cars may look old but I know their not running the old equipment. Their running the latest technology available. Two speed manual trannys and slipping clutches had their time but, there are better ways to do it today.

Rules should be subject to change for the betterment of the class. Maybe after this season automatics could be optional.

Now, I'm not trying to start another pissing contest, I'm just thinking out loud and looking for suggestions.

Ron

Ron,
I agree . I think that Ryan set up the class on the primise that the car owners would regulate the class etc. Own a car=one vote in the process.
I have never stated anything until i got my car done, now i feel as if i have one vote in the process.
All the cars right now built ( except one) and being built followed the rules that said no automatics.
My vote at this time would be for "no automatics".

However if they were allowed mine would have a glide in it overnight.:) :)

[Mr. Mac]

Ron,
I agree . I think that Ryan set up the class on the primise that the car owners would regulate the class etc. Own a car=one vote in the process.
I have never stated anything until i got my car done, now i feel as if i have one vote in the process.
All the cars right now built ( except one) and being built followed the rules that said no automatics.
My vote at this time would be for "no automatics".

However if they were allowed mine would have a glide in it overnight.:) :)

Uh Yeah! What Bubba said.

[2b-banjo]

My vote is also for "no automatics".
Build by the rules!!!
I built mine to these rules, now you want to change it.
So the money I spent on transmission, clutch, pressure plate, scattershield, etc. is wasted. Plus the cost of new items needed.
If you build to the pressent rules, we are all in the same boat!!!
2b-banjo

[Old6rodder]

Gentlemen,

Slush pumps don't miss shifts and converter slippage forgives an insensitive pedal foot. Anything else you want to do to remove the driver from it? :rolleyes: OK, sarcasm intended lightly, so try not to bust a vein over it :p . But seriously, folks ..............

To be forthright, one of the stronger things that led me to start my build on a "Hambster" was indeed rule 19. That and #20 put the race mostly in the drivers lap, something it's been missing (for me at least) for rather awhile.
Hell, one of the things that made it so much fun then was exactly that, drag racing was more than just cutting a good light and hanging on for the ride. I'm really looking forward to having to feel out the bite with my butt and nail my shifts just to get the chance to win again.

So I guess you'll have to put my vote in the lever throwing column.

God, I hope I haven't forgotten too much of it to re-learn.
And that I'm still CAPABLE of (re) learning. :D

[Godzilla]

HA/GR = HAMB drags once a year

HAMB drags = run whatever you want to bring

I don't get it...what are the rules for...that one race? There are no rules at the HAMB drags...just have fun and race your ass off...and see who pukes first.

From a competition standpoint the trophy is meaningless...it is a popularity contest...the fastest/quickest car does not necessarily win. If anyone could give me one GOOD reason why I, as a true competitor, would want to change my car to a manual transmission I would listen.

Then again, if you want to compete week to week (and make it in to the second round) at your local track, I suggest you rethink your manual shift deal...you are going to get your doors blown off running in the brackets.

[Mr. Mac]

Gentlemen,

Slush pumps don't miss shifts and converter slippage forgives an insensitive pedal foot. Anything else you want to do to remove the driver from it? :rolleyes: OK, sarcasm intended lightly, so try not to bust a vein over it :p . But seriously, folks ..............

To be forthright, one of the stronger things that led me to start my build on a "Hambster" was indeed rule 19. That and #20 put the race mostly in the drivers lap, something it's been missing (for me at least) for rather awhile.
Hell, one of the things that made it so much fun then was exactly that, drag racing was more than just cutting a good light and hanging on for the ride. I'm really looking forward to having to feel out the bite with my butt and nail my shifts just to get the chance to win again.

So I guess you'll have to put my vote in the lever throwing column.

God, I hope I haven't forgotten too much of it to re-learn.
And that I'm still CAPABLE of (re) learning. :D

Old 6,I will guide you in the shifting process, hell its easy it will all come back to ya. It,s working the damn hand brake that will kill ya.:D

[Mr. Mac]

HA/GR = HAMB drags once a year

HAMB drags = run whatever you want to bring

I don't get it...what are the rules for...that one race? There are no rules at the HAMB drags...just have fun and race your ass off...and see who pukes first.

From a competition standpoint the trophy is meaningless...it is a popularity contest...the fastest/quickest car does not necessarily win. If anyone could give me one GOOD reason why I, as a true competitor, would want to change my car to a manual transmission I would listen.



Then again, if you want to compete week to week (and make it in to the second round) at your local track, I suggest you rethink your manual shift deal...you are going to get your doors blown off running in the brackets.

Zilla! As you know we built our car to resemble the old style dragsters of the 50s that was the intent of the Hamb rules.
Now, They did NOT have alum glides before 62.
Anyway,The Ram Rods did not build there car to bracket race with.

[Jim Marlett]

HA/GR = HAMB drags once a year

HAMB drags = run whatever you want to bring

I don't get it...what are the rules for...that one race? There are no rules at the HAMB drags...just have fun and race your ass off...and see who pukes first.

From a competition standpoint the trophy is meaningless...it is a popularity contest...the fastest/quickest car does not necessarily win.

Popularity? I think the only time the HAMB Drags didn't have a winner based on competition was last year when the power was knocked out and the race wasn't finished.

[Godzilla]

Check Ryan's post about the trophy for the HA/GR class prior to the HAMB drags last year. Could have been 200 HA/GRs making 800 runs...its was not going to be based on the quickest run....and its all good...it's the HAMB drags.

NO, my car is not a "PURE" HA/GR, because of the PG. I am a racer...I don't like to drive in parades. Except for the trans I was able to stay within the rules. I have built my car so that I can be competitive with it when I race, by being consistent, so that I can run in the local brackets every week.

I can not get my head around strapping into my car and not caring if I win or lose. To spend all this time and effort in my little garage building a car to only "look" like an old time drag car. That damn thing has gotta run...and run hard. If it doesn't I'll cut it up and rebuild it.

I'm a racer...I make no excuses for that. I have accepted that my car is not 100% by the rules. But then...aren't rules just suppose to be guidelines

[GMC BUBBA]

Check Ryan's post about the trophy for the HA/GR class prior to the HAMB drags last year. Could have been 200 HA/GRs making 800 runs...its was not going to be based on the quickest run....and its all good...it's the HAMB drags.

NO, my car is not a "PURE" HA/GR, because of the PG. I am a racer...I don't like to drive in parades. Except for the trans I was able to stay within the rules. I have built my car so that I can be competitive with it when I race, by being consistent, so that I can run in the local brackets every week.

I can not get my head around strapping into my car and not caring if I win or lose. To spend all this time and effort in my little garage building a car to only "look" like an old time drag car. That damn thing has gotta run...and run hard. If it doesn't I'll cut it up and rebuild it.

I'm a racer...I make no excuses for that. I have accepted that my car is not 100% by the rules. But then...aren't rules just suppose to be guidelines

I guess i just dont understand. The rules say " no automatics" yet you chose to build a car with a automatic transmission??.
Whats next , slicks, fuel injection , alcohol ? I guess they would all be ok as the rules are just "guidelines" right??

I just dont get it!:confused: :confused:

[Mr. Mac]

I guess we should start a class for the auto's and be done with it.
Then mabe we would all be back on an even playing field an quit bitching so much.

[Joe Hamby]

Well according to the rules for 2007, the Owasso car is the world record holder for HA/GR, 12.43, Thats a nice run for the Ram's and I don't even know which of the team was driving. I had the record for a 1000 foot track if you don't count the red light. 10.99 but when you consider the red light, then I guess it does not count.

[Oilcan Harry]

Tho I would like to, I don't have a dog in the fight. I just thought there should have been a separate auto class from the start. Run the sticks and the autos, then let the two winners run off bracket style handicapped by their best ETs of the day. For a "just for fun" champ.
I like the fact that there are no clutch explosions and less chance of blowing an old and likely expensive mill with the autos. My two cents worth discounted for inflation.

[Joe Hamby]

Last fall at the old time drags, in Mokan. I only saw one car scatter tranny parts, they went hi in the sky and all over the start of the track, and it was an automatic.

[Oilcan Harry]

I'd bet it wasn't a Flathead, or a 6 cylinder, or a car on a 6 inch wide bias ply tire.

[Godzilla]

Your right...as you say...you just don't get it. The rules for building a HA/GR are for HAMB drag racing events (lets count them together...one). However, at the HAMB drags you can run whatever you bring. Then...I can run at the HAMB drags...just not as a HA/GR.

The rules that get quoted are to create a class of cars that have a vintage sort of look to them and make a low budget deal so clubs can build one together and take them to the HAMB drags and have fun. Its all good...I support that 100%. But lets look at this string..."Indy Open Record Book?" Doesn't that say it all...do you get it yet.

Racing is racing...and males love competition. There is more going on here than a bunch of clubs building low-budget cars to go race at the HAMB drags once a year.

I still have all the stuff to make my car a manual shift...I started to build my car that way in 2005 when I started on it...but it just did not make sense since I plan to race more than once a year at the HAMB drags.

For me...an automatic is the smart way to go. It helps with consistency and on MY local track to race on Friday nights you better be deadly consistent.

I will race with the HA/GR cars when I am invited to do so. You guys can go and do your thing...and its all good. If you can get an automatic class I will be the first in line...till then I will take my car where I can race it as WHATEVER...and be just out there having fun.

[Rand Man]

HA/GR is a manual trans class. Anybody could win because shifting is a test of driver skill. My car, with Brad's engine has enough power to win. If I don't win, it's my fault. So what. It's not that I don't care. I'm just not going to beat myself up over it.

I'm sick of the bitchin. If you want to bracket race go someplace else. Don't quit the club then piss and moan until they let you back in. Automatics are not allowed and the only auto car aggreed (a long time ago) to switch over to a manual.

[Godzilla]

Rand Man what can I say...you are just the epitome of the HA/GR class. I just want to run out and start tearing all my shit out of my car so I can hang out with you.


By the by...the only tranny to blow up at MOKAN last fall was not a torqueflite in a full size car. I stood in the lanes for 55 minutes in the hot sun because a HA/GR blew its tranny on the line and greased the lane down....did I mention that is was a manual transmission.

Rand Man I KNOW you must have something that you want to interject here...................

[Drewfus]

This stupid auto argument is getting tiring, and the personal attacks are the icing on the cake.

There is no denying the benifits of the auto, but if you don't understand the reason for the long standing rule then you obviously have missed the point of what these cars represent.

If you want to race every week, and be 'racer' competitive, there are many existing classes, feel free to pursue your dreams, but I don't see why you want to change a 1 race event...

Cheers,

Drewfus

["Doc" Parsons]

Mr Mac
Since the rules are just guideline's I guess what that means is we can go ahead and put the injectors and mag on the flatty and tip the POP to it right LOL

[Godzilla]

Damn guys...you are smart enough to build one of these cars...can't you read. Your rules are great!!! Run ALL the HAMB drags you want with your rules....manual tranmissions only!!! As far as I am concerned I support that 100%. Go for it...have a ball...make all the exhibition runs you want!!!

YES..YES...YES...my car DOES NOT comform to your rules...my car is something OTHER THAN A HA/GR (do to the transmission rule). I will race with you when I am invited to...get it...when I am invited to!!!

Till then I am happy to race every week at my local track and promote other there to build a car LIKE MINE and race with me. I will have a ball doing so. I will wait anxiously every year to hear how you all have done with your cars at MOKAN.

Doc...I would love to see the rules change to allow FI, slicks and a little pop...and a mag too. Lets see if my little six can keep up with your flatty. Oh hell, that would screw the "spirit" deal again...since they would have never run FI, Slicks, a mag and a little pop back in the day. right!!!

So...the transmission issue all yours...I have nothing more to write about it...just don't oil down the track in front of me with your 50 year old transmissions shit....please!!!

[mudflap261]

In 2005 when we start to build the hornet there were no other cars being built the ramrods quickly followed and both cars were done within days of each other AT THAT TIME THERE WERE NO RULES JUST GUIDELINES NOTHING WAS SAID ABOUT TRANSMISSIONS we used the auto because it cheaper The first run was a 16.79 the ramrods beat us they ran in the 15s the next week same result except cooked the 235 we found a 261 ringed it ground the valves milled the head and acomp cam best run 15.32 ramrods win again all we here is what dummies we are for useing a auto the next week is mokan what to do now we here there is another flathead to contend with speed merchants its plain to see the motor is dead rich WHY 2 carbs cam not enoughvacuumtohold powervalves closed fix valves go to test /tune bam 14.20 next day is mokan we make 4 runs in the13.90s now all of sudden we are cheating ryan contacted the teams about rules the other teams got rule 19 nobody gave a hoot about the auto until we started running good The transmission in the car is the same one we run the 16.70s with we have had only one failure with it lining came off band The ramrods have had two shift linkage failures two tranny failures two clucth failures Randman has broken 2 trannys both at mokan Crooked six broke apressure plate on the starting line we are doing this fun my biggest pleasure out of this deal is getting those one barrel carbs to work and wacthing MR MAC get lockjaw when we beat him Of all the drivers of the teams now running MR MAC is the best and has beat us on hole shots anumber of times LETs just race

[Mr. Mac]

Mudflaper! Will you repeat all of that.:D :D

[Mr. Mac]

You know flapper I got to thinking about what you said.
We have had only one trans break and that because it could not
withstand a 5000 rpm launch(driver error).We only lost one clutch
and thats because we tried a 8in clutch out of a ford tractor(light weight) and it burned(didnt come apart) up under the torque on the 2nd pass.
The linkage screwed up(was hitting a brace on the floor) on our first pass at the first Hamb drags we went to. So! your note book you keep is wrong. How's your's 12.40 engine.:D :D Sorry I just couldn't help it. Come on guys lets quit bitchin. The Ram Rods and Hornets have been at each other since day one.Because Its FUN.Either team would do anything for each other.

[mudflap261]

I thought you got one at ark city istand corrected

[lindross]

As a wrench turner on one of the new cars, I don't get all the argument. If you're building a car to represent the HA/GR class, then shouldn't you follow the guidelines laid our for the HA/GR class by Ryan and the other founding HA/GR guru's?

[dabirdguy]

We started our car here in Cincinnati because of the rules AS WRITTEN.
NO AUTOMATICS. 6" tires. No other crap added.
Put the DRIVER back in the car.
To take Godzillias arguments a step further...why not rev limiters and nitrous and 18" wide tires?
BECAUSE THEY ARE AGAINST THE CLASS RULES.
This isn't Pinks where you are negotiating over lengths or equipment.
(And Ryan does a MUCH BETTER job than the TV twit!)
Godzilla, you built a bracket racer.
So go bracket race.
See ya!
One vote for stick shifts only.
Glenn

[bob hindman]

The Hornet Has Been Aprovvvved For 2007 With A Glide

By Ryan...

Hiney...

[REJ]

One more vote for stick shifts.
I really built mine with an auto in mind, but when Ryan stated that we could not run one, I changed my mount and went and found a truck four speed.
I have to agree with the choice now. If all of our cars are built the"same", it will come down to who spun off the line, missed a shift or something along those lines. It puts the win or loss back in the hands of the driver, not all the electronics, stall converters and all the "modern" things you find in a newer race car. After all, this is supposed to be a "traditional" race car.:D :D

[Old6rodder]

To address the "one race per year" (completely valid) point ........

For myself alone, it poses no problem as it is now. My three primary hobbies are an all volunteer Rose Parade float (year long build for a three hour ride), a one of a kind model train club (20+ year build, shown twice a year) and now an HA/GR (as yet only four exhibition engagements in our state, three of'em at the other end).

All these are based on scratch building and show only once or twice a year so far. Obviously it's the build that I enjoy most, but one day that'll be pretty much done for Barn Job #18 and what then ?

The other members of Geezerspeed (and myself as well) are looking forward to the hoped for growth of the class and the increase in venues that would incur. We're more than willing to live with it for now to be in on the ground floor but do indeed expect it to become something larger. This sort of thinking is typically called "the dream", and we're dreaming it. It does include the understanding that it's "in the future" still.
Among us it's been questioned why this isn't understood by all the participants.

This is a new thing gentlemen, it'll take time.
And we're in it for that dream as much as the comraderie.

And yes, it may even fail. Thus leaving us with an orphan car. But hell, that's part of it too. We can at that point consider converting it to a bracket racer, dune buggy, street outlaw or whatever turns our crank then (though just kidding about the dune buggy, I hate sand in my shorts). 'Til that time we'll give it our best shot, in the form it was intended to take.

OK, soapbox stowed for another time. :o Guess I just needed to get that (and that one-haired mole) off my chest.

[64 DODGE 440]

Amen to sticks, half the fun is sawing through the gears and my feeling about this class is that the cars should be built with fun in mind and run as more of an old style "run what ya brung" match race type thing. If you want to go for records and such fine, but to me the spirit of the HA/GR class is to show the world how it was in "the day" before all the high tech crap added expense to the sport and took away the little guy, weekend racers who were into drag racing just to have a good time and see how quick they could make their cars go.

Hell, I can remember when guys would help their competition repair their cars just so they could race them in the next round, and it wasn't that uncommon to loan parts if somebody broke something just to keep them going.

That is what we are in this for or we should be getting big buck sponsors and running in the money first ranks of the NHRA Circus.

AMEN Old6, it's not a worry if we only get to race once a year, it's that we get to race the way it began.

[Godzilla]

These threads where we all talk about the transmission rule are really very entertaining...its like the debate over the bias ply/radial tires. I think the only real good argument against the auto is that it has been made a rule....and that is cool.
As far as the rules go...I would like to have seen the rules go all the way, one way or the other. Make all the parts on the car pre-1962 (front end, engine, trans, steering gear box and rear axle) or pick a later cutoff date that would have allowed the 300 Fords and a few other engines to compete with the 302 GMCs.
I have read here about cars being built with aftermarket tube axles, S-10 rear axles and late model manual transmissions. It just seems like a contradiction to the "spirit" to have a late model rear axle or transmission...since neither of these parts are being used as "safety equipment." I guess the "spirit" applies in some situations and not in others.
Well...that is just the way it seems to me.

[Ron Golden]

Guys,
I think all of our cars will look period correct to 99% of the people and generate a lot of interest in the "50's spirit" of the HA/GR's. I'm sure we're the only ones that will know if the car is 100% HA/GR to the letter of the rules, and I bet we're the only ones that care. When you think about it, the important thing is building the car the way YOU want it to be....and having fun. If your car is faster than my car, no big deal.

I play golf whenever I can and if I ever got to golf with Tiger Woods I wouldn't be thinking about winning, I'd just enjoy the experience. Remember, this doesn't have to be about winning or losing, but it does have to do with being there and enjoying the moment.

I hope my car is fast only because I've wanted to build a strong inline 6 cylinder for 20 years and this is my chance. I'd have just as much fun building a strong running Model A 4 banger.

Why don't we all do what we think is best for ourselfes and support each other.

Ron

[64 DODGE 440]

Guys,
I think all of our cars will look period correct to 99% of the people and generate a lot of interest in the "50's spirit" of the HA/GR's. I'm sure we're the only ones that will know if the car is 100% HA/GR to the letter of the rules, and I bet we're the only ones that care. When you think about it, the important thing is building the car the way YOU want it to be....and having fun. If your car is faster than my car, no big deal.

I play golf whenever I can and if I ever got to golf with Tiger Woods I wouldn't be thinking about winning, I'd just enjoy the experience. Remember, this doesn't have to be about winning or losing, but it does have to do with being there and enjoying the moment.

I hope my car is fast only because I've wanted to build a strong inline 6 cylinder for 20 years and this is my chance. I'd have just as much fun building a strong running Model A 4 banger.

Why don't we all do what we think is best for ourselfes and support each other.

Ron

Thank you Ron, you have summed up the whole matter quite well. What this thing is about is doing it for fun, the way it was done in the '50s, and building in the same style and technology.
It's not the winning, it's being there and having fun. We're not buildlng cars that could ever beat a Don Garlits, but wouldn't it be a ball to have him in the other lane next to you, running one of these cars?

[Ron Golden]

Tom (64 Dodge),
Thank you. If Don Garlits was in the lane next to me I'm sure I'd do everything wrong, but it would be great. Just think about my braging rights IF I did beat him.

Seriously guys, whenever our cars run lets hope the public likes them and the 50's idea grows. It was a great time to have grown up and hopefully the public will enjoy what we're doing.

Now for a disclaimer; at some time in the future I'm sure I'll mount a set of slicks, a nitrous system, etc just to see how fast this ugly beast will really run. That will be part of the fun too.

Now if I can just get it built soon.

See you on the starting line,

Ron