I'm GOING to take some HEAT for this.... BILLETPROOF???

[Germ]

JOHNNY ROTTEN was RIGHT...

When he SAID what he SAID at the WINTERLAND in SAN FRANCISCO....
Anyone REMEMBER that?????


IT
Looks like BILLETPROOF has become a BUSINESSMANS CIRCUS..
And it seems to have SIDE STEPPED away FROM its original MEANING.....
It's contradicting.....

With that said and with us
Having attended since NUMBER 2, (we broke down on the way to number one).......I feel that I have to say this......

It's SAD to see OUR LITTLE BABY grow UP...
But even SADDER to see it's ONCE STAUNCH MORALE for the LOW BUCK builder go down the TUBES like a CHEAP PAWN.....

it's sacredness is now tainted.
regardless of the happiness I felt when I saw some cars and some friends......

It seems that.
Our goal with supporting this show was the exact opposite of what the finish line has become!!!

I guess at 25 bucks a car,
Moral goes down the toilet like a crackhead jonesing for a toke...

BILLETPROOF,,
is OFFICIALLY A PARADOX of what it once was....
It Placates itself with Self promoting personal TREASON.......
SODOMIZED and left bleeding by
it's OWN GIMMICKS...

Nor-cal's VERSION of BLESSING of the CARS, without the CRAMPS playing..???

GOOD LUCK to you
and whatever else you are trying to drum up and conquer.....

I had a wonderful time, but I left with a weird feeling..
SOMETHING AIN"T RIGHT......

You can't MAKE COMPROMISES, or EXCEPTIONS with your AIM.....
Or you wind up shooting crooked,,,

Have fun

[**DONOTDELETE**]

"ever get the feeling that you've been cheated?"

[Big Dirty]

What, not "Punk Rock" enough?

[Tman]

Yeah, it happens dude. That event you went to from day one, you live for it, you build it up in your mind...................one day it will not live up to your expectations or your memories of its past.

[zonkola]

1) Underground band with good songs hits the small clubs
2) People hear band and dig it. College radio happens.
3) Band plays same songs, but starts making money and gets more exposure, no longer have to sleep in van
4) Original fans declare band a sellout

The same or different?

[Germ]

[ QUOTE ]
1) Underground band with good songs hits the small clubs
2) People hear band and dig it. College radio happens.
3) Band plays same songs, but starts making money and gets more exposure, no longer have to sleep in van
4) Original fans declare band a sellout

The same or different?

[/ QUOTE ]

Alot different, and I never said SELLING out...
reread what I wrote..

[zonkola]

What would you have done differently?

[roadstar]

I have found when certin shows loose there innocence and charm for the reasonse you so eloquently express you just start over.

[slazzen]

I had a great time but Germ is right. The show is huge now and very over welming. The music was fine but I would apt for more varity more like La La polooza side stage acts. I saw you leave in a daze Germ? I had much more fun than any Greedy Guys show. But there were also people and elements that were not there that should have been? But as stated change is going to happen thats the secret to life!!!

[Glen]

Hey Germ....Get with c9 and av8 and right a damn book, many your deep sometimes. I would buy one.

[delaware george]

we have a similar thing happening to my favorite show out east....the more people that jump on the wagon, the easier it crashes....it has to be hard to run an event and keep everything sane for a long time

[Travis]

I had a good time... but Germ is right. BilletProof is too big and it's gotten away from the original meaning.

How long before we have an Anti-BilletProof?

But... in all fairness, people should talk to Kirk and express their concerns to him? He put his heart and soul into this and I think he needs a chance to listen to the concerns and address them before we start bashing the show. But yeah... Germ's right.

Kudos to Kirk for a well planned show. I'm still going next year and maybe it will be 'smaller'?

Travis

[Chuck R]

I liked the 2 bowling alley venues, Albany and Hayward , but you can't go back. Everything changes , in fact if if did not grow it would probably die. Let's think about the day.
Great people -Yes
Great selection of cars- Yes
Great Location- Yes
Great Music- ***** (five Stars)Yes

I have been to every one except #1 and I had a great time again. Is it as intimate? No... Do I feel like I am part of a special sub culture happening? Not so much any more. But at the end of the day I was able to spend time with people I care about, saw some cool rides, heard some good music, and got my 40 out of the garage. I would say that I had a successful day.
Thanks to all that put it together.
Chuck

[mrrocket]

[ QUOTE ]
we have a similar thing happening to my favorite show out east....the more people that jump on the wagon, the easier it crashes....it has to be hard to run an event and keep everything sane for a long time

[/ QUOTE ]

Havent been, dont know, but I'll attest to Delaware George's statement. The bigger it gets, the harder it is/will be to keep it what it was. Even with the Heavy Rebel (and we are only at about 1300 people thus far in 2003), it grows harder and harder to keep it what it was. However, 70 percent of that is the people that come, the exposure the shows get from the internet and, in the case of Billetproof, the mags that cover it. At that point all the promoters can do is stand back and try to keep the feel the same. We got e-mails and comments this year about people having attitude that wasnt there the past 2 years....but what can we do except keep it as fun as possible. We still dont allow Billet, or Muscle cars, or trialer queens, but the attitude still seems to creep in. And it looses part of its "personal touch" that makes it different.

[Unkl Ian]

The more things change,the more they will never be the same.Unfortunately,some good ideas become a victim of their own success.I'm just sorry I missed it.

[Roothawg]

We used to put on a local show for about 5 years and you would be amazed at how much people come to expect. We used to give out T shirts, free food for everyone in the car that registers, a free Garage Art poster, and people would complain about a 10 dollar entry.

Most guys have no idea what it takes to put on a show. The bigger it gets, the more people get involved, the more ideas come into the mix.

So we just quit having it. They can have their own show.

[hemi]

I pitched this same question in CKD#8. How long will it be before they eat themselves?

Here's some food for thought though.....

It was a success, and is successful. The baby has grown up, but has grown to be what it is supposed to be.
Do you guys think, at the first Billet Proof of a handfull of misfit friends trying to have a good time, at an event where they were not shunned for having a certain style of car, a style that was on the fringe of automobiles, do you think they could even imagine it would blossom into something this big?

I think the "magic" of being small with an attitude has been lost in the shuffle, but they have suceeded in creating a large show, that still feels low key. The attitude isn't so much the tone, because the point has been made, is understood, and goes without saying. It may not be as "fun", but it is the end product of the preparation of other shows. There were no mega buck, semi-trailer vendors, there were no crafts section, just the usual small assortment guys chucking their wares. It may be a business man's circus, but that's how a show like this has to stay afloat. They can't hand choose 30 cars, stick them in a parking lot and limit spectators....what fun would that be? The time has come for what they were unconsciously trying to prove to be proven. People want to have fun, and be a part of something geared more towards home built cars, built in the old school fashion.
You wanna be a hardcore outcast now, I guess you gotta fix up a chevette and hang with the "nerd car"
crowd. They are the fringe. They are the punk. They have the romance, and the struggle. They haven't been exploited or blossomed into their full potential yet....like this "scene" was a few years back.


The cars were great to look at. There were a few hasty converts, but for the most part, everyone seemed to have a clue. And not a fluffy billet buggy in sight. The event has grown to where it is just known that the guys they were against in the beginning, with the pastel colored, trailer fluffers, do not rule the roost. If these guys did show up, it was in their personal vehicles. Their kind of cars are not welcome, not what the show is about.....and it is now a large event that they might even want to be a part of. It has come 180 degrees. It may be a paradox of the original meaning, but I think it has just matured. I saw plenty of homebuilt, low budget cars, and saw some of the previous "low buck" cars have evolved and had refining. They are growing also as the money and time allow. That's how hot rods work. They are in progress, with a goal in mind, and sometimes they get there.

It would be much easier to say "keep it like it was" than it would be to do. Like we've discussed in the past, how can you say "Let me in, and then shut the door", and keep it "hard core". You can't.

Compared to last year, the venue was cool, large, and less dirty. I admit the dirt was half the fun of lasy year, but we killed it for ourselves and some folks ruined it. This left the guys searching for a new venue, and with that comes the financial obligations asscociated with that. Insurance and what not. I did not mind paying $5 to get in. I'm not sure how much it was to show a car, but if it was $25...that seems a tad steep. Still, for the size, and quality of the show, the gate fee was nominal.

If a group of people can do something they like, and put enough heart and soul into it to do it repeatedly, I hope they become successful.
As an analogy, It would be like saying that Cole's earlier cars, cars like the blue Chevy, and the "dirt dauber" Triumph, were cool only while he was younger and a little poorer, and now that he's a bigshot rockstar, his car's quality and soul suffer. Quite the contrary, now he has the resources to really do his best. I think Billetproof has the same situatution. Sure, it's not JimA's posuerproof, or a few hard core guys having a party, but, they have helped culture something, and as likeminded people finish their cars up, it will only grow. I was happy to see so many like minded folks in one place, having a good time, and it was a good time. Real relaxed, large enough to where I didn't get bored, I didn't hear any complaints, everything was priced like it was a small event, and the cars were spread all around the venue. You couldn't do a panoramic look around and see everything, you had to walk. So if you were standing somewhere, and looked around, it still had a small show feel.


Again, I wonder aloud where the show will go, and how big it will get, when it will reach critical mass, and how distorted it will become over time, but I also had a great time, got to see some really cool cars for the first time, got to see old friends I don't get to visit with often enough, and overall, I think it was successful. Large, yes, but still somehow balancing out to be successful in upholding the original intentions.

[KIRK!]

Hey Germ and nay sayers. I just this minute got home and this is the first thing I see. I am very into expressing one's opinion and I have to agree with some of what you have said. It is not the Albany Bowl show anymore. It has been a new show every year. The growth has been a concern for a couple of years now. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle. There has been a percentage of "non Billetproof" cars there since YEAR ONE. There will always be a percentage of them. This complaining and grand theorizing has been around since the second or third year. Billetproof will continue and will continue to be the best show I can put together. It can never be 24 cars in a bowling alley lot again. But, name one other show where you can see as many of the "right" cars in one place. There isn't one. If you are so jaded that you can't see through the small percentage of lame cars to vast majority of great ones then that's your problem. This whole "punk rock" high horse is such bullshit. I literally put HUNDREDS of hours into this show before hand and tons of people help the day of the show. So, a GIANT thanks to all of them, the paticipants and spectators. It's funny how the complainers are always the first and loudest to speak. They just want their little piece of attention. We made a TON of people happy yesterday and many of those drove for hours or days to get there. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[KIRK!]

Damn HEMI, well said and thank you.

[Stoner]

I've been reading this stuff and had to make a comment:

I was talking to a few old billet guys who said they had heard about the show and finally wanted to come out to bash it for themselves. They'd been bashing The Movement and all its Followers for as many years as we've been bashing them.

So they finally got off their lawnchairs and out from behind their color-matched Coleman stoves, pull up their white socks, tightened down the velcro on their Stride Rights, put on their best Panama Jack hats (the one with the flamed hat bands), donned "The Colors" (multi-colored abominations of gassers, street rods and customs screened from armpit to armpit across a XXL t-shirt) and laughed their way through the gates on Saturday and tried to clear the cobwebs to remember their best "cuts" on cars they don't approve of.

These guys fuckin' LOVED every minute of Billetproof '03. They couldn't believe their squinty little eyes when they saw the creativity, ingenuity and STYLE of the show. They also couldn't believe how "organized" we were. Their original opinion changed dramatically and they found some religion.

All this is not to say that we're turning into them--we never will. That's a whole different scene and approach. What this DOES say is that we're all getting a little older and more organized. We're a true movement that will always stay true to the same ideals that created this board.

BELIEVE it, Jack. Progress is good. Stagnation is not. If you can't handle a show like Billetproof getting bigger and better, than you're only insecure about your own talents and wanting to keep this scene all to yourself is gonna do nothing but get you left behind--sittin' in your garage fuming about it and trying to get your buds to agree with you.

[Skate Fink]

Two words.........JALOPY SHOWDOWN!

http://www.throttledevil.com/jalopy001.htm

[greaseball]

I had a good time kirk,
Thank you!
P.S. Nice bicycle!

[yorgatron]

where's your show? put up or shut up.

[Tiny]

If all of those who think the show has gotten to big stayed at home it would have been smaller right? But since you couldn't stay away why not just enjoy it for what it is. I guess Kirk could limit it to 24 cars only but that would suck! Which 24 would you pick to come in. I know you couldn't just pick 24, so unless people stop building cool cars trucks and bikes I think we have a big fucking cool show once a year called Billetproof
thats my dos pesos
Tiny

[zonkola]

Personally, I'd go to Billetproof and Germ's show. Whaddaya think?

[oddrod]

i don't understand what you're all complaining about? i got in for free, got free donuts, got all kinds of cool schwag free, got to go to the races for free and got half off my suite (sweeeeeet) at the ramada. i got to watch some guys hack up cars in the shade, saw a lot of friends and got to kick them all out at 4:30. what more could you ask for? stevo

[SamIyam]

I had a great time yesterday.
The wife had a great time... and all the people I talked to were having a great time.

I think the problem is that people get caught up in theorizing about the whole movement... shit, it's about the cars man... judt focus on the cars, and the people who build them... and you'll know you found your mecca.

But for those of us who have been there since the early years or have known Kirk or Jay personally for more than a few years know that their views on what the show is about have changed... if you "choose sides", you end up alianating yourself from the true meaning of the early events AND the newer, bigger event... that is... it's about the hot rods and customs...

FWIW, this scenario was played out with the Blessing of the CArs show down south and the Fuck the Blessing show that was born out of it... there was another show yesterday.... a small gathering of friends, meeting to chat about cars and have fun on a smaller scale... next year it may be a bit bigger... and then the year after that it'll be bigger than that... and then bigger, and bigger, and bigger...
but you can only hang on to that intimate setting for so long.... then, in order to keep it on the small... you'd have to shut it down and start all over... sounds fun.

More about Billetproof... I would have to say this year was a HUGE success for Kirk... he's on his way to making a living promoting shows... but with the comercialization of it all, and the success, and the money, will come ridicule. There will also be people that will spit in your face (verbally), stab your back, call the event "GreedyProof"... but that is the price you have to pay for success... seems kind of harsh... but there are always people who want to see you fall... it's in their nature. Look at Gary Meadors... the guy still has to stand in line (this is the truth, I've seen it) at his events to get a cold soda and a burger... yet there are people who will still bad mouth him about his events and criticize how he charges $10 for a burger and a coke... I also have to say that germ isn't the type of guy that wants to see you fail... he has insight into the beginning, things have changed and now that he voices his opinion, he gets blasted? I can't say that a bit of what he said was bull shit. The event is a money maker now... big deal. If you (Kirk) try to make excuses about it, people will talk behind your back and say bad things about ya'... if you have no bones about it and say "I'm trying to make a living doing something I love"... I think people will be able to respect that... I'd love to make a living doing something I truly love... and people are fools if they don't... so, don't make excuses, just shoot straight, and enjoy the ride.
Sam.

[Missouri_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
It's SAD to see OUR LITTLE BABY grow UP...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey germ, did I miss something here? From what I can tell, all you've ever done is attend the event, and yet you try to claim some kind of ownership? There's your problem. Until you've busted your ass helping organize it, there ain't none of it that's "yours". Don't like the way the show is going? It's simple...don't fucking go. End of story.

As for Kirk's motivations, I'll say this much. A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine contacted Kirk about some advice...she's trying to put together a show in the St. Louis area for next summer sometime. Despite the fact that he was eyeballs deep in getting Billetproff set up, he immediately and VERY enthusiastically responded to her. Did he ask for compensation of any sort? Nope. Did he tell her he'd only help if it became a Billetproof-East kind of show, and he got something from it? Nope. He just offered to help her however he could, because he thought the idea of someone wanting to put together a show was cool. That says all I need to know about Kirk and his reasons for doing this. I guess some folks just have to make a bad guy out of anyone that achieves something.

[Germ]

Justification will never truely deplete the REAL reasoning behind your madness....

[KIRK!]

Thanks for the support. Sam it was awesome to see the digger in person. It's a full on pro job. Way to go.

As for blasting opinions, I don't. But I too have opinions. My opinion is that the whole idea of something few used to enjoy becoming something many enjoy is lame because of it's success is completely untrue. Whether you (not you Sam) want to call that selling out, not being true to an original vision that wasn't your doing in the first place or not being "punk rock" any more that's fine. Do your own thing like jay and I decided to do seven years ago. It was a response to the way we were treated at the big shows of the time. We wanted respect for what we built. Now we and thousands of others have that respect.

The thing is, my vision from the second year on was to become a successful show catering to as many as would have us. Showcasing imagination and the do-it yourself ethic. This vision still holds true. So what I call bullshit is anyone trying to say that we have lost sight of our vision. You obviosly have no idea what the real goal has always been. I have always said that there is no reason there can't be 1000 cool cars in one place at one time. That many easily exist within reach of the show. The people who show up who we might call the "wrong" ones are embarassingly impressed with the skill of those of us who do our own thing. IF we can inspire them to go home and build their own shit, right fucking on.

So don't tell me what my vision or the vision of the show is. If yours is different, great. If you want to know mine, ask.

BTW Hemi, pre-reg was $20 and at the door it was $25. It's insentive to get people to register early so we have at least a slight idea of what to expect. That's only a $5 increase over last year. As for $5 to walk in....we can talk about the cost of putting on the show all day. Again Hemi, thanks for being able to see the show as a whole pretty clearly.

[Iceberg]

Billetproofdude,
You can't make everyone happy, so don't worry about it. You did your best and made a lot of folks happy. I work in the catering industry & I can tell you that no matter how well you think you did, some asshole will be unhappy. I actually had someone complain about our shrimp being too large!!! Go figure! I sure wish my pickup was done in time for me to drive down. Next year....next year.

[nor cal nic]

my biggest complaint is not seeing KIRK naked... still owe you a birfday drink.
nic

[Germ]

My intentions with this post weren't what they have been taken as...
I guess I made an observation...
and wrote about it....

regardless,
Something weird is in the air..

And i feel like I have a right to SAY something, because i have been there year after year since it's creation..
I don't own it.
and have only just supported it...
And maybe I'm being selfish with it....

I just think it changed, and somehow I don't think that it getting BIGGER is ALWAYS BETTER,,,,,


carry on,,,

[Nads]

germ, bro' I've never been to BilletProof. We've got barely nothing in Florida so nothing's ever had the chance to jump the shark.
Shit I'd love to have something like BF here, but then again things like the DragLinks picnic in the dead of winter are pure fun for us.
It's sad when people catch on to a 'movement' but that's reality. I think anything that results in more shitboxes being on the road is a good thing.
The motives of the perpetrators can always be suspect, that's something that nobody can fathom. Who knows? Is it tattoos, is it some kind of unfathomable street cred?
Damn if I know, I love cars and every new one out there is a plus.

[Sam F.]

so,basically what your saying is, no donuts in the dirt this year??? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Peter Pan of Chicago]

No heat here. This post is multi-faceted. I think I understand Germ -- Something Kool just got Kooler and now it just won't be the same. Yeah, it won't but, I'm sure it's better.

Do all you guys, especially you guys that have been on this re-emergence of Traditional, run what ya brung Hot Rod scene since it started, realize how big this is getting across the country, How kool it is, how many more young and old guys are buying and building Rods'n Kustoms today. And not having to worry about chrome, rubbing out the kandy, finish this and that in order to make the cruise and still get respect.

This just natural progression, just like it did the first time around in the 40's and 50's. The cars are gonna get nicer, there will be a secondary market place for goods and services, and there's gonna be alot more big shows to accomodate the interest.

This is all good. Concentrate on the cars. Check out Ron's post and pics from the Rebel run in Ohio if ya wanna see where all this might go as to the quality of the cars and interest is concerned.

You guys that are leading this movement today by the websites and messageboards you run, the cars you build, the shows you promote will be the " Old Heads " of the future. Just like the Barris, Ballion, De Rosa, Watson, Alexander Bros., Nancy, Buttera, Coddington, Brizio, the list can go on and on, are today.

Let's enjoy this!

[Missouri_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
And i feel like I have a right to SAY something, because i have been there year after year since it's creation..
I don't own it.
and have only just supported it...
And maybe I'm being selfish with it....


[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I can understand a little better. And to tell you where my thoughts came from, I spent a number of years organizing a (non-hot rod) car event that went from being a small, casual get-together to a full-blown national event for the club in three years, and I listened to a lot of guys who bemoaned the loss of "their" event. Funny thing was, none of the same said guys lifted a finger to help, just showed up and took advantage of my hard work. Obviously, I didn't mind doing the work, or I would have never started. I could just never fathom the guys that showed up, seemed to have a good time, and then went home and bitched online. Had any of them pulled me aside and asked if they could help with the next one, they would have gotten a "yes" faster than they would have believed. But no, they just wanted to bitch.

From my recollection of reading his posts, Kirk's always been upfront about wanting to make Billetprook bigger and better, and possibly even branch it out. If he can continue to provide events for those of us that can't stand street rod kind of shows AND make a living at it, then more power to him in my book. Of course, that's just this man's opinion...

[slazzen]

I just want to make it perfectly clear I am not and never did bash billetproof I had a great time and it was a awsome show I just agree with Germ that it is not the same and that it was awsome before too I belive that Kirk is doing great thing and that the magazine idea and networking billetproof`s all over is cool !!! intmate shows are always way better and there will be alot more really great ones because of billetproof so my post speaks for it self Thanks Kirk

[Germ]

I wasn't bashing it EITHER.
I was just RAMBLING and thinking......... some folks GOT, it, and SOME DIDN'T...

Maybe I'm just not use to CHANGE, that comes about SO DRASTIC...
It doesn't mean I "HATE IT"..
I just question it before I accept it.....

I was thinking about WHAT it HAS become...
Maybe GROWING is OK..
The FUTURE will TELL....

It JUST SEEMED DIFFERENT this YEAR....
I had a fun time.....

It seemed like a DUDE took a SIMPLE GATHERING like car show,,

and ALL THE SUDDEN decided to MAKE it HIS GROWING BUSINESS...
And if that is wrong for me to say then so BE it,,,,

I have NOTHING against KIRK!.....

MAYBE BILLET PROOF,, should have DIED back at the BOWLING alley, And you should have started another adventure.......

Germ

[donovandagger]

it was a good show.....people are going to catch on to anything that is sub culture to begin with... kirk...rawk on bro!!!!

[The Wolf]

i thought for a brief second when i started reading this thread, i might actually agree a little bit with germ for once. I WAS WRONG!!!!!!! i didn't hear ads on live 105, or on bus stops for billetproof. i've been there from #2 as well. i told people how great it was, they came and told people, they told people, etc. etc. etc. does that mean kirk or anyone sold out? i don't think so. should they have judges at the gate and turn cars away? it costs to put on good shows, and as far as i'm concerned $20 is chump change for a good time!
YA, I'M PISSED I DIDN'T WIN A TROPHY! but really. ya, i was a little bummed at the size at first. but i met a lot of cool people, got some great ideas for my projects, and saw some bad ass cars! WHAT THE FUCK ELSE DO YOU WANT!!! HAT'S OFF TO KIRK AND ALL WHO HELP WITH BILLET PROOF!!!!!!!!

[hatch]

Wish I could made it, but my horse threw a shoe(non billet, it's cast) in Illinois...no problem..I'll make it next year. Hope I can get the air conditioning working by then.

[tragic59]

I think I saw a little of what GERM is talking about at the show... I wondered some of the same things...

BUT, I don't think growth is a bad thing.

It may well have been a super cool, intimate gathering for the few fortunate and cool enough to make it to the first(or second, or third) "shows"... but the fact of the matter is the Billetproof guys have taken their concept of a car show, or what a car show could be or should be and actually turned it into a CAR SHOW! I'm not knocking the bowling alley parking lots. They were great shows. Cool cars. Cool people. Cool vibe. But they were more of a gathering than a car show. Facts is facts: those first few shows weren't really shows... Almost more of a cruise-in with cool trophies for like-minded people.

To tell the truth, I would be more bummed if it hadn't grown and I was stuck looking at the exact same 24 cars year after year. This is one show that's more about the cars than it is about the "show" and it's promoters and it's SPONSORS and it's MONEY... And that's why I go. THE CARS. And the more the merrier as far as I'm concerned. Give me the choice of walking around looking at 24 cool cars with 2 or 3 gay cars thrown in, or walking around looking at 240 cool cars with 2 or 3 gay cars thrown in and I'm gonna take the 240 every time...

I don't need BILLETPROOF to prove that I'm cool, because I'm hip enough to be clued in on the super-top-secret gathering of non-billet rods and customs... I don't need to feel superior because I've got my finger on the pulse of what's edgey and cool and dangerous while the rest of the world is stuck with the GOODGUYS...

I'm glad Kirk and crew have achieved some success with the show. I'm glad I got to go look at afew hundred cool cars and bullshit with afew hundred guys who own cool cars. I hope the show is putting some green in Kirk's pocket. God knows I wouldn't put as much time and HEART and SOUL into this(or any) show as Kirk has year after year. I appreciate the sacrifice. I hope it turns into less sacrifice for him. Of all the shows I've ever been to BILLETPROOF is the one that actually DESERVES to succeed.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The first two Albany shows sucked.
Especially if you were lucky enough to attend the
Pre-BilletProof shows that Kirk and the
origanal PoorBoys used to throw in
Frisco - Mariposa/Florida street.

This was the best show yet!!

[KIRK!]

Hey Dann, I can't take credit for those old school Mariposa hang outs. The Last Originals started those. But again guys thanks for the support. I'll keep busting my ass to keep the shows integrity intact.

[justinm]

as a veterano from the second year(98) i don't think the real basics of the show has changed. i enjoyed myself saturday- brought my dad this year, ran into a few good freinds that i only run into at the show, and had to ignore some idiots. par for the course.
and i was one of the individuals that was afraid it would take a turn for the worse. personally, i don't think music and cars should go together, and i think the customizing comp was a little to TLC network...... but as an individual you can choose what you want to see at the show- especially this year cause it was hudge!!!
and there were a lot of nice rides- real tastefull well built cars. and i'm glad the past winners were showcased.
i just brought the PMA and chose to ingonre the stuff that would bother me. so i think Kirk and the Swanks put on a good show. and i'm sure they'd be the first to credit all the participants, so i'll do the same.

con safos boys.

[cleatus]

I think anyone who attended any of the early "bowling alley" versions of Billetproof will have a certain sadness at their passing - they had that certain something, but does that make the new and much bigger Billetproof a bad thing? HELL NO!

The day started with the wife and I motoring in our custom along the delta waterways with the cool moring air blowing through the car, surrounded by back-to-the-basic roadsters and other cool rides and with big stupid-ass grins on our faces. Then when we arrive at the venue - right on! - grass, trees and ALL THE SAME KINDA STUFF WE WERE USED TO SEEING AT PREVIOUS Billetproof shows JUST MORE OF IT.

We parked and jumped out just in time to see the Hokey Ass Digger rumble into the show. Soon we were talking to old friends and meeting new ones. HAMBers introduced themselves - I scored more parts for the car.

The wife found lots of cool stuff from the vendors.

And met tons more great people, all of them smiling and having fun - it still had a great vibe.

And no stupid 50s sock-hop music blaring over loudspeakers.

The car ran great all day.

And so many other great things we saw.

Any one of the above things would have made for a great day, BUT ALL OF THEM TOGETHER made for an outstanding day!

Then, to top it all off as if it wans't already THE BEST show I have ever been to.... as I'm standing there listening to the award presentations, I just about fell over when I realized it was my name they had just announced - and I scored one of those seriously awesome hand-made Billetproof sculpture-trophies - I still can't get the stupid-ass grin off my face.

Kirk....awesome job dude. Just because it has suddenly grown to rival Paso as the greatest show on the west coast doesn't mean it is going down hill. You did an outstanding job in locating a great new venue, keeping it real and maintining the vibe and everyone I saw seemed to feel the same way.

LONG LIVE BILLETPROOF!

[OGNC]

To quote Travis

[ QUOTE ]
How long before we have an Anti-BilletProof?

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean like just about every show out there...

[brutus t maximus]

hey germ:

funny how the worm turns huh???


actually i wanted to respond to your post right after you made it, but i thought nah.... "i will let this one hang on its own merit..."

i think you are getting far to "old fart" for your years!!!

got an alternative? i dont mind a bitch, if you bring a fix to the table too.

but then again, i am a bit unclear as to what exactly you find wrong or doesnt feel right to you about billet proof.

perhaps if you would write in american english, and not use so much calitalk. As for a "feeling", hell germ feelings are best expressed to your significant other (whatever gender you prefer), put it in words man!

Going out on a limb here and trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, and see if you can explain what exactly bothers you about it, and once having done that tell us what you would do to fix it.

hmmmmmm?

oh and btw,, how about i buy you a strawberry cone???

bob

[Germ]

Hey BRUTUS T ANUS...

your looking for ENGLISH???

MNaybe next year at BILLET PROOF,,
you can BLOW ME..
and I will have more fun...

germ

[Travis]

OGNC- I hope that doesn't happen... the Anti-BilletProof thing.

I guess I do have my own opinions about BilletProof and the cars/people that attend. More cars had me on my hands and knees taking pictures and exclaiming "Holy SHIT!" than did the ones that made me shake my head and say "What the hell is THAT thing doing here?"

That "undercarbed" 348 (Yes... it's a 348, not a 409) had me scratching my head and wondering if all those webers were actually hooked up?? I sure as hell got pictures of THAT!!

In my own small little mind... I am... yes... biased. I guess the impressions of the earlier BP's had me feeling a certain way and then I went to BP this year and it's HUGE... and I was like "Whoa this is almost too much!"

I loved hearing the Schithead Brothers 409 coupe run with open headers in the parking garage underneath the bowling alley in '00. Shit... I'm DEAF and I heard that thing and I wasn't even in there. I was outside about 50 feet away going "What the fuck?!"

Anyway I ramble. I have to give way to the inevitable progress of growth and do a little growing up myself. As I said, I'll be there next year. Maybe driving something different this time? I think I am getting tired of my '59 Impala. BP makes me want to get something different and unique that nobody else has. This must be what Kirk was talking about.

Anyway... here's a couple pix that created a stir in my loins for things made out of metal, rubber, and glass.

Travis

[Travis]

gennie Impala.

Travis

[Travis]

One more... I loved this truck...

Travis

[brutus t maximus]

hey germ:


i will bring my pepper skaker, mag glass, and a pair of tweezers......hahahaha


are all guys in california preoccupied with all that is "gay"??


smile germ,,, we all love ya!!!


bob

[rickyracer1962]

why are there jeeps and a late 60's corvair in the background of that truck pic?

[=mike=]

the jeeps probably made the cut off year , I dont know about the corvair . . . no pre 64 vehicles maybe ? I dont know much about corvairs .

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
hey germ:


i will bring my pepper skaker, mag glass, and a pair of tweezers......hahahaha


are all guys in california preoccupied with all that is "gay"??


smile germ,,, we all love ya!!!


bob

[/ QUOTE ]

some are apparently

[slazzen]

the jeep is owned by a 18 yr old kid he has a bad ass wide bed A pickup he started in highschool when he was 16 it has a hopped up banger in the A. The jeep is his daily driver has a banger in it too I think its a 46. The truck is his dads his little brother is 12 and is looking for a sedan to build and has 2 coupe bodys too trade the dad has a 34 roadster that is gonna be really sweet too and drives a really nice triumph scooter so belive me they belong

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[ QUOTE ]
I Sure, it's not JimA's posuerproof, or a few hard core guys having a party, but, they have helped culture something, and as likeminded people finish their cars up, it will only grow.

[/ QUOTE ]


DUDE! I made it in both BOLD and ITALICS- I'm such a ROCKSTAR- viva la POSEURPROOF!!!

[burndup]

"Punk is dead."


What do I win?

The only way to fix things is to bring back the "Fad T." Lets do it...