TOOLS, Just got my compressor, wwoohhooo, need piping advice

[53choptop]

Its a home depot 400 dollar 60 gal, 7 peak....

Anyhow, now I need to set it up. Any advice, piping layout, what filters should I get, hose size? I am looking to use it mainly for painting (using HVLP-on my way to harbor freight) and some sanders. That ol' Ford needs some new skin...Thanks

[Crease]

Set a syatem up for my dad about 10 years ago and it has worked out real nice. We're running high pressure PVC (think it's about 1-1/2 inch?), dont use the cheap stuff. It runs from the back of the garage into a binks dryer. Unlike some dryers, the Binks actually dries. What a crazy concept! The system works really well.

Crease
Barons So Tex

[DrDano]

53, if anything be sure to put on a good moisture and particulate filter. Nothing like crap spewing out your gun onto your nice paint job. I didn't run pipes because my shop is just larger than the average phone booth and sticking the particualte filter on the tank, then running 3/8 hose worked fine for me.

[Hackerbilt]

I got some advice here about a year and a half ago.
Worked KILLER!
Don't use the PVC...can explode when under pressure and gets impacted by something. Also it doesn't efficiently condense the water vapor from the warm air the compressor pumps out.

My setup...with a similar compressor to yours and humid conditions, has yet to give out ONE DROP of condensation!
I ran 1/2 inch copper hard line vertical to the ceiling and 1/2 ways across the garage, then down into another 60 gal receiver tank hidden under my workbench. The outlet from the second receiver tank is equipped with a water separator and from that the line goes vertical and continues onward to the wall opposite the compressor. It drops straight down to a bleed valve at floor level to drain any residual condensation. This vertical drop has a "T" fitting 4 feet from the floor that redirects the HP air along the wall to two more outlets...the last one in the line having an additional drop bleed valve.
The quick disconnects themselves are mounted to short vertical branch lines with a 90* fitting at the top. Thats so any liquid water condensed in the line will flow freely along the pipe but clean air will be able to reach the quick connects.
The extra tank makes an incredible difference in moisture content. The tank is cool and the moist air can "hang around" long enough for all the water to condense befor it even gets to the lines.
Trade off: The compressor must run longer for both tanks to fill...but, it takes longer for the air pressure to drop to the point that the compressor cuts in so its liveable.

With this setup, I have yet to see a single water droplet from air tools or spray gun and I don't have a refrigerated water separator or anything!

I'll see can I draw a pic...

Bill

[Hackerbilt]

Heres a pic....I HOPE!

[TV]

Choptop, I sell systems among other things, PM me and I'll tell you how to set your system up.--TV

[CTFuzz]

I've used PVC for the past 15 years....NO problem, very easy to use......hell , when i used to teach, they installed it in the school shop, passed all the state requirements ......don't care what any one says..oh!, don't weld near it..duh!

CT

[Hotroddder]

I replaced the piping in my shop last spring. Had PVC, and went to 3/4" copper. The PVC was so brittle when i took it down, I'm surprised I did not have any blowouts.

Definately use copper, its easy to cut and solder.

One tip is to take the drops off horizontal runs off the top of the line. Use 2 90's out of a tee and then use 2 45's to get the drop back to the wall. This way liquid water does on run down the drop.

Also run the line down past where you want to take air off with a tee, and the put in a ball valve. Run another short 12" or so and put in another ball valve. Keep the top valve open until you want to drain the drop. Shut off the top valve and drain the bottom one. That way you dont blow the water all over with full line pressure.

[chromedRAT]

we used good PVC pipe and i must say i was surprised at just how loud such an explosion can be. we're experimented with various ways to do this in our bronze foundry, never used PVC again. everything is steel pipe now, no problems. we do have moisture issues, run tons of dryers on every outlet. that extra tank is a good idea though, i gotta tell my dad about that.

[286merc]

Right from Motor Guard Corp:

1. Use galvanized steel pipe. Mount main line as high as necessary to allow vertical work drops.

2. Mount main line regulator/filter at least 20' from compressor allowing air to cool.

3. Main line should slope down 1/8" per foot.

Also dont run painting equipment from the same drop line as air tools. Install oil and water filters as well as drains as needed.
Nice thing about threaded pipe is that it is easy to change as you needed. I included several extra T's in the main line and plugged off the drops, quick and easy expansion capability.

DONT use PVC. If you want to use copper be sure it is type L along with the heavier cast fittings/couplings. Costs more than galvy tho.

[hatch]

Worked in a shop and experienced two pvc blowouts...don't know why it blew....and I don't really care why. I've never seen galvanized come apart.

[tootallrodder]

Copper is the easiest way to go for the non Pipe Fitter. Easy to cut and join excellent heat trasfer. I've had my garage plumbed this way for quite a few years. just remember to use drip legs with drain valves. and slope horizontal runs for condensation runoff.

[53choptop]

These are all great suggestions, I will take them all and apply them to the pipe layout. But 1st things 1st, I need to wire the compressor, got schooled in electrical this weekend. Need to wire for 220V 15amp, have to get into the attic to run the wire up and around, and into the garage, etc, etc....let the fun begin....

[286merc]

Copper is the easiest way to go for the non Pipe Fitter. Easy to cut and join excellent heat trasfer.

Easier? If someone cant screw together stock lengths of galvy from Home Depot (If odd lengths are needed they cut & thread them on the spot) he aint going to be able to put together a leak free copper system. Might burn the garage down or get molten solder all over his purty self too.

[El Caballo]

Do not use PVC, period. I happen to have an order for PVC fittings per AWWA C900 with a supplier. I asked him about this and he strongly discourages PVC for that kind of application. He is a car guy and he builds his own race cars for some SCCA racing.

He suggests you go ahead and get some galvanized 1/2" A53 grade B threaded pipe (schedule 40) and maleable 150# fittings and some teflon tape. He says the shock and vibration can cause explosions even to well insulated pipe.

If you won't believe an expert and a guy who sells PVC for a living, then nobody can reach you...

[TheDooWopKid13]

if you want your compressor to be quiete put it in a fridge and seal it up with some vents on it. or you can make a wooden box for it with insulation to keep it quiete. a buddy mine did it and you can barley hear it.

[Leon]

[ QUOTE ]
Need to wire for 220V 15amp, have to get into the attic to run the wire up and around, and into the garage, etc, etc....let the fun begin....

[/ QUOTE ]
Run conduit into the garage, run 10 ga wire to the outlet. It's overkill for that size compressor but you'll have less trouble whenever it first starts (less voltage drop) and if you ever get a welder that needs more power you already have a heavier wire in place. 10 ga. is good for 30 amps.

[TV]

Do not put that compressor in a box or any closed up area.That baby needs to be in the fresh air to cool and operate correctly,You can put it in a two sided box with a roof, anything else and your asking for trouble--TV On second thought go ahead and box it,it will be quiet soon enough.

[Shiva69]

Here is another way to box it it...
make a 3 sided box w/ no top it will direct the sound upward and still alow for some air travel around the compressor

Garth

[chopolds]

Tricks to help keep out moisture. Run all your lines downhill, as suggested, and put a valve at the end of the run to drain off water. At each "T" where you come off with an air fitting, face the take-off UP. then put a street ell off it to go OUT, with your quick connect. Keeps stray water from going into your hose. Water don't like to go up. I also use a secondary filter, far from the main one, where I do my spraying. Doesn't hurt, to be safe. It does collect some water, too.

[53choptop]

Doesn't galvanize pipe corrode? not that it matters I suppose, its relatively cheap if I am not mistaken, besides I am not running water through them and if I drain daily the air should dry out the pipe while draining? Home depot does cut and thread galvy pipe on the spot, looks like we have a winner......

FYI look what I found....

[53choptop]

Some more samples...

[53choptop]

Last one....

Now I can picture what you guys are saying.....thanks

http://www.oldsmobility.com/images/ACpipinglayout1.jpg

[bigdog]

That's exacttly the way my compressor is set up, did it about 8 years ago, it was a commercial shop up till three years ago, never had any water problems. I suppose eventually the steel pipe could rust, but I've never heard of anyone having problems with it.

[Digger_Dave]

Excellent drawings.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't galvanize pipe corrode?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, galvanized pipe and fittings don't corrode. However when galvanized pipe is cut it opens a spot for some corrosion.

Blowing out the system every once and a while (I blow my system out every week) will keep the system fairly free of moisture.

Of course it depends on how hummid the air is where you live.

[river1]

at my work (newpaper plant,200,000 sqft) they used copper type L. the airline are run all over that plant and we have had no failures in ten+ years. some of the lines even have dents in them where a forklift or something has hit it still NO failures. copper i can cut in MY shop without repeated (like you trust the homedepot guy to cut it exactly the right length the first time) trips to homedepot. good enough for me i plan on using copper at my place.

later jim

[286merc]

Galvy will outlast most users, Ive seen some 40+ year installs still in good shape. Copper is illegal in some areas for commercial use.

The nice thing about galvy is that it is self sacrificing. So when you cut and thread it will cold flow over any exposed area and keep it from rusting.

[53choptop]

Got an update...

Set up the piping this weekend, went with black ¾ inch pipe, it was cheaper than galvanized at Home Depot. Ran 3 drops with all long pipe in a slight downward angle, the pic is pretty bad, but that is the overall routing. That 1st drop really catches the water. The second has almost no water, 3rd has no water at all and the filter finishes it off. The filter is a harbor freight one, I was able to get it at half off, it is the big blue canister one.

I bought PVC, but took it back, I just didn't feel comfortable with it. Everything turned out better than I expected, had no leaks the first time through, I used pipe thread caulk stick all the way. Anyhow, I just wanted to thank you for your help guys.

[Roothawg]

Tech-o-matic please.......

[El Caballo]

I'm with Roothawg... you shore do have a purty mouth.

I mean, tech-o-matic please.

[John Copeland]

It's done now and I'm sure it will work fine, I'd never be caught without a compressor again. I have a suggestion for others that might view this post. Man, there is no reason to be afraid of using PVC pipe in lieu of black iron or anything else. I went to a decent plumbing supply house and bought some schedule 40, I think its gray in color, at least mine was, and twice as thick as the crap that they sell at Lowes and Home Depot. I have had this system in my basement and plumbed up to the garage for eight years, never having as much as a small leak. It's an old Kellogg 2 cylinder, 2 stage compressor, setting on a 80 horizontal tank. I have a Sharpe dryer and all is well, never have moisture in the gun or tools. Drain the air tank often, don't wait till you loose half your volume and realise the tank is full of water, depending the air quality conditions in your garage, they can make huge volumns of water. Just another suggestion, don't go out and buy every air tool on the market like I did........you need a good spray gun and a junker, a good 3/4 drive impact and I like a 3/8 drive air ratchet, the rest of the shit I rarely use. For those seldom used items, you can shop at the roadside tool sale and use through aways. I bought a 1/4" air ratchet 20 years ago and it still works excellent, it ought to, I never use it! Chicago Neumatic, Portor Cable, good stuff and the MAC tools folks sell a good product as well. Very expensive but will last forever. Just my 2 cents worth..............


Shoe

[53choptop]

Your right, the gray pipe is a higher schedule specifically for high pressure, they carry schedule 40 at HD and Lowes..but it was not gray.... thicker PVC HD and Lowes doesn't carry it, or would have to special order it. I am not dogging on PVC, I haven't used it, after reading and asking several people, it was 50/50 on the pros and cons of using both pvc and metal, I just went with my gut feeling.

As far as tools go thats the 1st thing I bought an air ratchet, I love it, I started diassembling everything is sight.....then had to put it back together

[fordiac]

toolwise...

3" cut off wheels are awesome, I use mine all the time...

I use the air wratchet when I remember I have it...

Blow guns are sweet too...

[river1]

a maker of PVC has this to say on compressed air in PVC

http://www.lascofittings.com/supportcenter/CompressedAir.asp

if the maker says don't use it i sure wouldn't.

copper or black pipe seems to be a regional choice, in az i have never seen black pipe used but doesn't make it wrong tho.

later jim

[53choptop]

Just a suggestion.

After reading the post and actually working on it I also feel this is Tech
O'Matic material. It gives the pro's and cons of different pipe, gives several setup suggestions, diagrams and overall opinions.

I learned alot, there alot of HAMB'ers out there that will be in the same boat as I was.

I know this isn't traditional, but a compressor is almost a necessity in the garage.