Double flaring help needed

[4gotn1]

Is there some trick to double flaring if you have the tools. I am not haveing much luck.

[Stevie G]

Leave at least twice as much above the clamp as you would for single flare. The double flare "Die" should form a bulge that you will then compress to form the double flare.
Takes a little practice

[brewsir]

Make sure you are filing the outside edge of the tubing at about a 45 degree bevel before doing the flare. Also I usually clamp the clamp too in my vise so I know it is nice and tight. Another thing is use a good quality tool.

[40Tudor]

Be REALLY anal about cutting the tube straight and deburring it well. Other than that, all I can say is practice. They never come out looking as good as factory flares, but I can get them good enough to seal.

[Hackerbilt]

Cut the tube with a proper tube cutter...not a hacksaw.

Clean out the burrs from the end of the tube. Blow out the tube with compressed air...tape the other end if there is a chance it will scrape the floor. (it will!)

Place the tube in the proper hole on the flanger and leave the end sticking out exactly the width of the FIRST step on the correct double flare (DF)adapter. Place the DF adapter pin side up next to the tube as you measure and then lock the tube. Tighten FIRMLY.

Mount the flanger into a bench vise by clamping the end that sticks out past BTW...makes it much easier.

Place the DF adapter into the tube and then use the flaring tool to compress the DF adapter until it bottoms on the flanger.

Loosen the flaring tool.

Remove the DF adapter and complete the flare by using the Flaring tool to fully seat the flare. Don't compress it to death! Firm is good.

Remove from the flanger and admire your work.

There ya go! Your very first double flare using a TRADITIONAL Flaring tool!

Now...Cut the flare off with the tube cutter...install the FLARE FITTING you forgot, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif and make your SECOND Double Flare with a traditional flaring tool!

Don't feel bad...we've ALL done it! LOL

Bill

[Randy D]

Shoot me an email. If you need some instruction, i can show you how its done. Easy stuff. -Randy

[roadstar]

[ QUOTE ]
Now...Cut the flare off with the tube cutter...install the FLARE FITTING you forgot, http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif and make your SECOND Double Flare with a traditional flaring tool!

Don't feel bad...we've ALL done it! LOL

Bill


[/ QUOTE ]

Bill I commend you on you honesty. Anyone who has done alot of invrted flare fitting has done this more than once, I know I have.

As far as tricks....I like to use a drop of oil on the adapter,it just makes things turn easier. Also I like to debur the line after it has been cut with a drill bit to clean it up inside and then take a file to the end to flaten the tube alittle on the end.
One very important piece of advice is to have a quality tool. The clamp must hold the tube good and tight. If it slips just slightly you will not be able to make a usable flare.

[Satinblack]

Yes its been said, you can never clean/deburr the tubing to much. That is the key and practice

[Barn Yard Chevy]

Sounds Stupid or Hard to do but, Make sure the little double flair piece gets added to the tube & compressed straight or the guide pin on the tip will break off inside the tube! Seen it happen, had it happen...Both Suck because nobody wants to sell you just that little piece with out the rest of the flairing kit...

BYC

[Paul2748]

As was said, get a good flaring tool = not one of those that have the two bars that clamp together - snap on should have them or parts stores usually have them.

[Ryan]

If you do have a cheap flare tool and can't afford a nice one, try wrapping the clamped part of the tubing just once around with duct tape. It keeps the tubing from slipping out of your shitty tool.

[Leadsled51]

Do you guys have the same trouble with the 3/16 die always breaking? I bet I have went through 3 of these stupid things. I even bought a good set from NAPA, and still have problems. What am I doing wrong?

[praisethelowered]

I quote myself from a year ago-

I finally can earn my keep at the HAMB with this one- it's payback time for all the good advice that I have recieved! Here is the answer straight from the son-of-a-plumber himself.

Anneal the end of the tube by heating it red hot with a torch and wrapping it with an insulator to let it s l o w l y cool. Apparently the stuff gets work hardenerd a bit when they manufacture it and this makes it a little more flexible. Enjoy brothers! Go try it now and let me know how it works for you.

Now don't you all wish you came from the elite class that I do and had Dad's that were plumbers?

[IBUILDM]

Use stainless steel tubing and you don't have to double flare. It single flares just fine without splitting. It costs about twice what steel tubing does but it lasts forever and you never have to worry about it rusting. You can brush it with a scotchbrite pad or get real fancy and polish it. It is all we use at my shop even on cars that don't deserve it.

[4gotn1]

Thanks for all your help. I have been practicing. My problem seems to be that the flare isn't straight. It looks good on half of the tubing but not the other. My tool is not a Snap-On or Mac but it doesn't allow the tube to slip. Could the insert be bent or I'm I just not cutting it straight enough?

[Antibilly]

all I can say is I need help with this as well.............man its a skill learned and earned at the same time

[JOECOOL]

The only thing I can add is like the other poster said ,I put some oil on mine and it seems to help.

[Ryan]

Yeah, I always heat the end up with a small torch I have. It does seem to help a ton...

I'd like to know where ya get the fancy tubing bender that allows you to do all those "curly cues" like in OEM brake lines - guess they help with vibration and air pockets...

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
My problem seems to be that the flare isn't straight.

[/ QUOTE ]

again the cut needs to be square, for deburring the inside of the tube I use a large countersink and work it by hand then a fine tooth file on the outside, the end should be consistantly rounded inside and out all the way around.

when you make the initial press if the insert tries to walk or tilt stop and reposition the press to compensate.

you shouldn't have to do that with a good tool.

Paul

[Upchuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I always heat the end up with a small torch I have. It does seem to help a ton...

I'd like to know where ya get the fancy tubing bender that allows you to do all those "curly cues" like in OEM brake lines - guess they help with vibration and air pockets...

[/ QUOTE ]

don't they just slip the tubing in a gadget that looks like a coil spring so it don't kink? I got one in my flaring kit but have never used it, matter of fact I never used anything in the kit but the pipe cutter for some plumbing I did for the wash machine to cut copper pipe http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Toqwik]

for curly q's, I wrap the brakeline around the can from my touch up gun. It also helps cause ya don't have to cut the line to shorten it http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Fatstang]

For curly-q's I wrap the tubing around a centering post of an old style tire machine (like they have around old gas stations) The ACME thread on the centering post gives a nice uniform spacing between the curls.

[tunglegubbin]

NEVER use a pipe cutter, those things work harden the material and will make the flaring work harder and increase the risk of cracking.

If you use a piping material that theoretically don't need a double flare, such as seamless stainless, a single flare is not thick enough for the brake fittings. There is a big risk that the fittings bottom out on their threads before they can compress the flare to seal.

If your pipe slips out of the clamp of the flaring tool, smear it lightly with valve grinding paste. It will add the friction needed and wipe off without leaving any marks.

[Paul]

another important part of the leak free connection is to use new brass fittings.

the brass is soft and will form to the flared steel tube, once the fitting is formed to the tube it can be difficult to get it to form to another tube, no matter how perfectly formed the new flare is it will always be slightly different.

Paul

[Dirk35]

I can add a little to this. Very little.

Practice, practice, practice, fail, get pissed, then go back to Napa (where you bought your $50 flare kit) and pay them the $1 each flare after you have cut and bent you lines to do them professionally on their machine. You typically have one end already flared (if you were smart and bought the lines that are already made as their close to the same price as the roll of line and all the compression fittings seperatly) and just cut one end off to make the fit. So It only cost like $8 to have all lines on my 35 flared because one end of each line was already done.

Oh yeah, Im sure everyone already knows this with just a little thought, but the curly-Qs are vibration absorbers for when you mount the M/C on the firewall, and their easily made by bending the tubing carefully around peice of thick wall 1 1/2" pipe (or whatever size you like the look of, with bigger being better shock absorbation for the most part). I used a full coca-cola can and they came out nicely. Their not needed at all when you mount the M/C on the frame, because there is negligible shock difference as opposed to the diference between the frame and the body.

I need to go practice some more, cause I could never get the first flare to mushroom correctly. The heating the tubing to anneal it is a great idea, I had never thought of that!!! THanks!

[4gotn1]

Thanks alot. I am getting closer. That annealing trick works wonders. I think I just need to work on my chamfering now.