View Full Version : Features Ford Thunderbolts Photos Wanted


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WICKEDJOHN
05-20-2011, 04:53 AM
Some 'glass door T-bolt pics! :)

64Cyclone
05-21-2011, 01:40 PM
Some 'glass door T-bolt pics! :)

I wish that middle pic was in color. That yellow really stood out.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/2BobFordLenRichterT-Bolt13.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/2BobFordLenRichterT-Bolt11.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/2BobFordLenRichterT-Bolt7.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/2BobFordLenRichterT-Bolt.jpg

MD1320guy
05-23-2011, 10:14 AM
Seen at "Cruzin Ocean City MD" this weekend.

rlsteel
05-23-2011, 11:37 AM
does anybody know the wheel size and offset they are running on theses cars?the 5 spokes would have to have a great deal of offset even if they are 7 inch wide thanks RLS

64Cyclone
05-23-2011, 07:54 PM
Seen at "Cruzin Ocean City MD" this weekend.

That wagon is kewl!

ford_george
05-26-2011, 09:00 PM
If you want to know the true story about "The Country Boy" and Pat Gray's "Whuppet" I can tell you the truth, as I am the one who bought both of them. I bought Pat Gray's thunderbolt, which had been converted to be a funny car for $200.00. We took it home (Nashville) and started converting it back to run Super Stock. It was a whole lot of work. While I was trying to find a set of headers for the car, I got a phone call from a guy in Selma Al. who had a set. When I got there I bought the headers from him and was about to leave when he asked me if I needed any other parts. He took me outside and there was the "Country Boy". I paid him $400 for the car and took it to Nashville. This car need less work and we stripped the fiberglass doors off of Pat Gray's car and put it on the Country Boy. Since Pat Gray's car needed so much work and you couldn't find a fiberglass hood, fenders or an aluminum bumper we scrapped the car. We raced it for a couple of years and sold it to a fireman out of Houston Tx. I have regretted it ever since.

Want more info on the cars? Just ask...

WICKEDJOHN
05-27-2011, 12:02 AM
MAYFAIR AUTO PARTS "The Mover" C/MODIFIED PRODUCTION '64 FAIRLANE! Non T-bolt...but very nice! :)

From Taylor, Michigan. Driver/Owner is Al Szwed.

WICKEDJOHN
05-27-2011, 12:12 AM
Would like to see more pics of this '65 Fairlane? Super nice car! :)

dlshady
05-27-2011, 09:46 AM
If you want to know the true story about "The Country Boy" and Pat Gray's "Whuppet" I can tell you the truth, as I am the one who bought both of them. I bought Pat Gray's thunderbolt, which had been converted to be a funny car for $200.00. We took it home (Nashville) and started converting it back to run Super Stock. It was a whole lot of work. While I was trying to find a set of headers for the car, I got a phone call from a guy in Selma Al. who had a set. When I got there I bought the headers from him and was about to leave when he asked me if I needed any other parts. He took me outside and there was the "Country Boy". I paid him $400 for the car and took it to Nashville. This car need less work and we stripped the fiberglass doors off of Pat Gray's car and put it on the Country Boy. Since Pat Gray's car needed so much work and you couldn't find a fiberglass hood, fenders or an aluminum bumper we scrapped the car. We raced it for a couple of years and sold it to a fireman out of Houston Tx. I have regretted it ever since.

Want more info on the cars? Just ask...

Thanks for the info Ford George! I've asked Pat several times over the years who bought his car but all he could remember was that it was "some boys from up around Nashville".... I'd love to see some photos of the car as it was when you drug it home if you have any. I'm particularly interested to know what colors were used in the lettering and stripes on the car because everybody around here has a different opinion.


Thanks,
Deron

Tom S. in Tn.
05-30-2011, 07:18 PM
If you want to know the true story about "The Country Boy" and Pat Gray's "Whuppet" I can tell you the truth, as I am the one who bought both of them. I bought Pat Gray's thunderbolt, which had been converted to be a funny car for $200.00. We took it home (Nashville) and started converting it back to run Super Stock. It was a whole lot of work. While I was trying to find a set of headers for the car, I got a phone call from a guy in Selma Al. who had a set. When I got there I bought the headers from him and was about to leave when he asked me if I needed any other parts. He took me outside and there was the "Country Boy". I paid him $400 for the car and took it to Nashville. This car need less work and we stripped the fiberglass doors off of Pat Gray's car and put it on the Country Boy. Since Pat Gray's car needed so much work and you couldn't find a fiberglass hood, fenders or an aluminum bumper we scrapped the car. We raced it for a couple of years and sold it to a fireman out of Houston Tx. I have regretted it ever since.

Want more info on the cars? Just ask...

Ok,....... I'd like a little more info.
What years did you run the Coffey car. What did you use for a motor? Where did you race mainly?
Tom S. in Tn.

6t5frlane
05-31-2011, 10:30 AM
Would like to see more pics of this '65 Fairlane? Super nice car! :)

There's a bunch in this thread/ The Car was Darrell Drokes car first before Jerry got her. There is footage on You Tube of when Jerry drove her.

jestang
05-31-2011, 02:09 PM
Thanks for the info Ford George! I've asked Pat several times over the years who bought his car but all he could remember was that it was "some boys from up around Nashville".... I'd love to see some photos of the car as it was when you drug it home if you have any. I'm particularly interested to know what colors were used in the lettering and stripes on the car because everybody around here has a different opinion.


Thanks,
Deron

x2 .... would like to see what the country boy car looked like when you brought it home

64Cyclone
05-31-2011, 09:17 PM
If you want to know the true story about "The Country Boy" and Pat Gray's "Whuppet" I can tell you the truth....
Want more info on the cars? Just ask...

Looks like I was getting the stories confused. Ya'll brought the Country Boy car to Nashville (the Mohumpus car pictured), built a S/S car from parts of both T-Bolts and the Whuppett ended up being scrapped over at Steiner-Liff. Then the car was sold to the fireman in Tx. Correct?

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/25WoodyAndersonFordPatGrayT-Bolt9.jpg

Do you have any info or pics of the Hippodrome Ford Thunderbolt driven by Clyde Felts??

Or this one:

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/Falcons/196426.jpg

MD1320guy
05-31-2011, 10:20 PM
Mercuryjunkey...I was reminded of your post #2360 on page 118 recently when I met Gary Mathews of Chambersburg, PA. He has complete 64 T-Bolt body molds for fiberglass bodies like the car in your post.

WICKEDJOHN
05-31-2011, 11:54 PM
Great photo....Can anyone identify this one?:)

http://dragnut.smugmug.com/Private-Albums/63-Z-11/11511909_EadaT#810187588_vdGcQ-L-LB

64Cyclone
06-01-2011, 05:23 AM
Great photo....Can anyone identify this one?:)

http://dragnut.smugmug.com/Private-Albums/63-Z-11/11511909_EadaT#810187588_vdGcQ-L-LB


Seems that series of pics is from North Carolina. I'd think that might be an early shot of the Atwater Ford Thunderbolt driven by Jake King (prior to it being painted lt blue and lettered). That car had chrome wheels all the way around, not many did. The Mooresville Ford Kenny Warren T-Bolt (Virginia Twister) was also from that area and ran chrome wheels, Howards wheels in the frt and chrome steel wheels on the rear.

There were a couple other NC T-Bolts but I don't have pics of them.

Tom S. in Tn.
06-01-2011, 06:52 AM
#2513;
Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border:1px inset"> Originally Posted by ford_george http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/hamb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6591841#post6591841)
If you want to know the true story about "The Country Boy" and Pat Gray's "Whuppet" I can tell you the truth....
Want more info on the cars? Just ask...
</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Looks like I was getting the stories confused. Ya'll brought the Country Boy car to Nashville (the Mohumpus car pictured), built a S/S car from parts of both T-Bolts and the Whuppett ended up being scrapped over at Steiner-Liff. Then the car was sold to the fireman in Tx. Correct?

.......... and it's presently in a collection in Massachusetts ?
Tom S. in Tn.

jestang
06-01-2011, 11:41 AM
I still don't believe the country boy car and the mohumpus car are the same car .... hopefully ford_george can clarify this for us

WICKEDJOHN
06-07-2011, 11:47 AM
Thunderbolt car #35 in the Thunderbolt Registry. It was Sponsored by South Carolina Ford dealer Pulliam Motors. Lookin' for more pics...black & white or in color! :) Thanks!

agtw31
06-08-2011, 09:05 PM
MAYFAIR AUTO PARTS "The Mover" C/MODIFIED PRODUCTION '64 FAIRLANE! Non T-bolt...but very nice! :)

From Taylor, Michigan. Driver/Owner is Al Szwed.

is this the same car?i was told this car is a T bolt

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7741/skinny64winternationals.jpg

same car now
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3162/img2038b.jpg

FAM4WILLYS
06-09-2011, 04:43 AM
Thunderbolt battles

Peter Mc Mahon
06-09-2011, 04:53 AM
What kind of times and speeds would these cars have been running?

Dzuari
06-09-2011, 07:46 AM
i went down to the 2011 mecum auction indy a few weekends ago and saw these.

the comet is a 427 sohc "cammer" and not sure about the second one

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/DiamondPIndustries/Mecum%20Indy%202011/0017004.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/DiamondPIndustries/Mecum%20Indy%202011/0017063.jpg

Tom S. in Tn.
06-09-2011, 07:57 AM
OK Fam4willys, give us some more info on this one. Where and about when was this shot taken?
I could be incorrect, but this is one of the very first T'Bolts experimented with.
Tom S.
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Tom S. in Tn.
06-09-2011, 07:59 AM
Darn. Image didn't make it. I'll try again.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1341899&d=1307612545

Troublemaker427
06-09-2011, 09:20 AM
Well, neither one of these are even close to being a Thunderbolt... The first one is a 1965 Mercury Comet....The second one is a 1966 or 1967 Chevrolet Chevy II!!!:eek:

Lets try to keep this thread 1964 Ford 427 Fairlane "Thunderbolt" related, please....:rolleyes:

i went down to the 2011 mecum auction indy a few weekends ago and saw these.

the comet is a 427 sohc "cammer" and not sure about the second one

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/DiamondPIndustries/Mecum%20Indy%202011/0017004.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j393/DiamondPIndustries/Mecum%20Indy%202011/0017063.jpg

Troublemaker427
06-09-2011, 09:23 AM
My guess is it's Kingdon Dragway according to the photo address. Les Ritchey and Gas Ronda, vintage burgandy with the cloverleaf hood on Ritchey's!!!

OK Fam4willys, give us some more info on this one. Where and about when was this shot taken?
I could be incorrect, but this is one of the very first T'Bolts experimented with.
Tom S.
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Tom S. in Tn.
06-09-2011, 01:57 PM
aahhh....... I see it now Troublemaker.
I don't get any photo description opening in another frame as a larger pic.
Wasn't that cloverleaf hooded car one of the very first?
I am unable to find it back in this thread right now, but I know I've seen it either here or somewhere.
Tom S.

Falconred
06-09-2011, 02:26 PM
This is off topic a little bit but I figured the learned folks here could help me.

I recently found an old Hot Rod Mag., Oct. 1967, that had an article about the '67 AHRA nationals at New York National Speedway. I am looking for any information about the funny car field. There was a notation about the Stripteaser beating the Ramchargers in the second round. I would like further info on the races or any photos available. I am a contributor on the Double H Drag Strip forum. The Double H was the Stripteaser's home track. Before I get any feedback, I know the Ramchargers had transmission troubles but would like to know how the Stripteaser did in later rounds. This would have been the Fliptop Comet that later became the "Holeshot", I'm not sure if it was still owned by Bob Thomas and driven by Howard Neal at this time or if it had already been sold to Jerry Caminito and not re-lettered yet.

WICKEDJOHN
06-09-2011, 09:27 PM
One of my favorite T-bolts! Super clean and very fast! Dobbs Ferry... complete with single exhaust and wipers.....:)

<dl class="file"><dt class="attach-image">http://www.doverdragstrip.com/phpBB3/download/file.php?id=476</dt></dl>

Falconred
06-11-2011, 04:13 PM
I wish I could make my fingers behave, no matter how many times you put it in search you can't get here with "thunderBLOTS".

Everyone keep up the good work, there is a wealth of information on here.

Bucksnort
06-11-2011, 06:46 PM
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/Bucksnort57/Bucksnort/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net%202/2473138840082607023Vjbwcd_ph1.jpg

Bucksnort
06-11-2011, 06:47 PM
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/Bucksnort57/Bucksnort/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net%202/2402108390082607023wdWJaR_ph1.jpg

agtw31
06-11-2011, 07:31 PM
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9281/2urs084.jpg

cobrajet2
06-11-2011, 09:29 PM
Sorry if this has been posted before, its not my pic. It was sent to me by a FCA member.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANWALKERFORDCARGOINRACIN15.jpg

cobrajet2
06-11-2011, 10:04 PM
Another!

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANBILLCURRIETBOLTVALKARIA9.jpg

MD1320guy
06-11-2011, 10:54 PM
Never know what you'll stumble across on a road trip.

FAM4WILLYS
06-12-2011, 04:16 AM
Hello again

More T-Bolt Battles. Les Ritchies clover hood. Photos I took at Kingdon.

Take care...............TOM

Tom S. in Tn.
06-12-2011, 08:43 AM
2 very rare early cars looks like at the same event. Wonder if they ran each other? Great pics and thanx for sharing!
Tom S. in Tn.

havi
06-12-2011, 08:53 AM
Well, that makes 3 Tasca Fords pre '64
http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9281/2urs084.jpg

Race Artist
06-12-2011, 07:56 PM
Well, that makes 3 Tasca Fords pre '64

Only two, the '63 car had two different lettering schemes and early on it didn't have the bulge in the hood.
Joel

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9281/2urs084.jpg

2dr_sedan
06-12-2011, 08:28 PM
Marked - Love the pics!

Troublemaker427
06-13-2011, 06:20 AM
He already posted these in this thread on the prior page but thanks...
"Borrowed" these from FAM4WILLYS post in the Stock S/S FX 1959-1966 post. Nice shots of the cloverleaf hood and bumper.

1345421
click to enlarge
1345422


If anybody wants a REAL LARGE copy go here and grab them

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=247089&page=111

Falconred
06-13-2011, 10:17 AM
This question may have been answered before. How many cars originally got the cloverleaf hoods?

cobrajet2
06-13-2011, 05:04 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/HUBERTPLATTTBOLTINFLA3.jpg

Troublemaker427
06-13-2011, 06:49 PM
Hey CJ2, great photos!!! Please post more if you have them. Are these from slides? They are pretty sharp.

sp1ke
06-13-2011, 06:51 PM
There is the number 58 thunderbolt that was built for sale in Fort Myers,Florida if anyone is interested.

havi
06-13-2011, 07:01 PM
Only two, the '63 car had two different lettering schemes and early on it didn't have the bulge in the hood.
Joel

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9281/2urs084.jpg
Thanks, that make's sense.... I thought there was only two, one from each year '62, '63

wombat barf
06-13-2011, 08:25 PM
is this the same car?i was told this car is a T bolt

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7741/skinny64winternationals.jpg

same car now
http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/3162/img2038b.jpg

well, the car in the black and white pic has base (cheapie chrome strip) Fairlane trim while the car in the lower pic has the more expensive Fairlane 500 trim (two chrome strips with a painted center). It could be the same car but I thought all '64 T-bolts were '500' trimmed cars.

Hemiman 426
06-13-2011, 09:26 PM
Mercuryjunkey...I was reminded of your post #2360 on page 118 recently when I met Gary Mathews of Chambersburg, PA. He has complete 64 T-Bolt body molds for fiberglass bodies like the car in your post.

MD..

Do you have any contact info for Mattews??


Bill

Troublemaker427
06-14-2011, 06:17 AM
well, the car in the black and white pic has base (cheapie chrome strip) Fairlane trim while the car in the lower pic has the more expensive Fairlane 500 trim (two chrome strips with a painted center). It could be the same car but I thought all '64 T-bolts were '500' trimmed cars.
It's the same car.

MD1320guy
06-14-2011, 08:01 AM
Hemiman...

Gary Matthews
227 W Commerce St
Chambersburg, PA
717-504-9933

butch70462
06-14-2011, 02:24 PM
anybody have a picture of Sidney Fosters Thunderbolt/ from Lousianna
Talked to him last week he built a Falcon good lookin car

Hemiman 426
06-14-2011, 02:46 PM
Hemiman...

Gary Matthews
227 W Commerce St
Chambersburg, PA
717-504-9933


Thanks Much!

FAM4WILLYS
06-14-2011, 09:50 PM
Hello again,

This is sort of an evolution of RONDA's T-BOLT.
Late '63', Mid-'64' Late '64'. Some one asked the question. If Les Ritchey and Gas Ronda faced each other at the big Kingdon meet. According to my records. The answer is no.

Take care.........TOM

Dennis K.
06-15-2011, 10:17 AM
This question may have been answered before. How many cars originally got the cloverleaf hoods?

10 or less.

Verified cars with cloverleaf hoods:
Brannan
Bob Ford
Bonner
Ritchey
Ronda
Tasca
Bob Ford Automatic

In the test track presentation photo, the #3 Ed Martin car has a teardrop hood. Don't recall seeing any photos of the two M/T cars or Wickersham car with a cloverleaf. Allegedly the #7 M/T car had the cloverleaf hood switched to a teardrop from another burgundy car, possibly the #3 Ed Martin car, in the hotel parking lot. More than one story about this.

Never saw a white car with a cloverleaf.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
06-15-2011, 10:32 AM
Hello again,

This is sort of an evolution of RONDA's T-BOLT.
Late '63', Mid-'64' Late '64'. Some one asked the question. If Les Ritchey and Gas Ronda faced each other at the big Kingdon meet. According to my records. The answer is no.

Take care.........TOM

Note the long bars on the Poppy Red Russ Davis car. The long bars and shocks behind the axle was developed by Ernie Mac Ewen of the X Garage and the Bob Ford Team. Earliest application was on the 1963 289 HiPo Bob Ford Inc D/S Fairlane 500 HT of Doug Nash and Ernie MacEwen. The first T-Bolt was the Bob Ford S/S car in April 1964.

Also seen long bars on Brannan's, Ed Martin, M/T-Leal, Wickersham, Milo Coleman, Jerry Alderman, Bob Ford A/MP, Jenkins-Wynne, Koelle-Greenwood, Brondes Ford, Allan Bros. and others.

Regards,
Dennis

cobrajet2
06-15-2011, 10:47 PM
Hey CJ2, great photos!!! Please post more if you have them. Are these from slides? They are pretty sharp.

They are not my pics, but the were sent to me by Art Goodsel from the FCA. Art got these photos from Milo and he currently owns Milo's T-bolt. I am happy to post them.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/PHILBONNERALMEANSTBOLT10.jpg

dlshady
06-15-2011, 10:49 PM
I just stumbled across this photo of Hazel on another website, and I don't recall seeing it posted here yet.


Deron

cobrajet2
06-15-2011, 10:49 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANWALKERFORDTBOLT25.jpg

cobrajet2
06-15-2011, 10:51 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANANDHISTBOLT12.jpg

cobrajet2
06-15-2011, 10:53 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANBILLCURRIECARATVALKARIA6.jpg

Tom S. in Tn.
06-16-2011, 07:07 AM
10 or less.

Verified cars with cloverleaf hoods:
Brannan
Bob Ford
Bonner
Ritchey
Ronda
Tasca
Bob Ford Automatic

In the test track presentation photo, the #3 Ed Martin car has a teardrop hood. Don't recall seeing any photos of the two M/T cars or Wickersham car with a cloverleaf. Allegedly the #7 M/T car had the cloverleaf hood switched to a teardrop from another burgundy car, possibly the #3 Ed Martin car, in the hotel parking lot. More than one story about this.

Never saw a white car with a cloverleaf.

Regards,
Dennis


How many cloverleaf cars are known to still exist today ?
Tom S.

64Cyclone
06-16-2011, 09:20 AM
How many cloverleaf cars are known to still exist today ?
Tom S.

From post #936

"The closest thing to an original cloverleaf hood was on Brannan's T-Bolt when it had the 65 Mopar style scoop on it. That scoop was installed on the remains of that hood. The hood survived until the car went through one of its "restorations" and dissapeared. I believe all the fiberglass on that car was replaced during one of its restorations or fluffings.

Regards,
Dennis "

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=255222&d=1166617645

Last I heard no known original hoods remain but someone reproduced one but it didn't look right....a little too square if I remember correctly.





Amazing pics CJ2!

Tom S. in Tn.
06-16-2011, 12:01 PM
I never even knew such a thing as a cloverleaf hood lump ever existed until this history discussion here.
I desperately wish I could have had even a part of the knowledge I have presently gained, back in the day even as late as the 70's as these cars and parts were being obsoleted and found in broken pieces. I could put a kid through Vanderbilt with what has escaped me alone.
Tom S. in Tn.

Falconred
06-16-2011, 03:29 PM
"Allegedly the #7 M/T car had the cloverleaf hood switched to a teardrop from another burgundy car,"

Dennis the story I got from Leal was that they switched the hoods the night before show day. Not sure of the other car but they were t'ed off about it.

I've told this story several times but I'm not sure I have put it on here. I was working in Camden, AL in '75 or '76 and saw a burgundy '64 Fairlane going through a light at an intersection ahead. I then noticed that it had a cloverleaf hood. I chased it around the bypass, two lane, until I got blocked in traffic and lost him. I am sure this was a cloverleaf hood and not a bubble as I was/am familiar with both. Whether this was a real T-bolt or not I don't know. He might have gotten the hood when someone else changed to a bubble or something. I would love any information about this anyone might have.

Dennis K.
06-16-2011, 05:59 PM
"Allegedly the #7 M/T car had the cloverleaf hood switched to a teardrop from another burgundy car,"

Dennis the story I got from Leal was that they switched the hoods the night before show day. Not sure of the other car but they were t'ed off about it.

I've told this story several times but I'm not sure I have put it on here. I was working in Camden, AL in '75 or '76 and saw a burgundy '64 Fairlane going through a light at an intersection ahead. I then noticed that it had a cloverleaf hood. I chased it around the bypass, two lane, until I got blocked in traffic and lost him. I am sure this was a cloverleaf hood and not a bubble as I was/am familiar with both. Whether this was a real T-bolt or not I don't know. He might have gotten the hood when someone else changed to a bubble or something. I would love any information about this anyone might have.

Years ago, "Larry" told me he/they switched the hood in the hotel parking lot.
I think the only way to find out which story is correct would be to find photos of the other cars to see if the #7 or any any other cars had a teardrop hood or if the #3 Ed Martin car wound up with a cloverleaf hood. It really doesn't matter. Regardless, the cloverleaf hood had an extremely short life span. The driver to change to the teardrop was to add the vents and I'd imagine somewhat improved aerodynamics.

Probably the hood you saw was from Bonner's car.

Regards,
Dennis

Race Artist
06-16-2011, 07:30 PM
Great pictures ... thanks for sharing them. Joel

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/GoodselArt/MILOCOLEMANWALKERFORDTBOLT25.jpg

Race Artist
06-16-2011, 07:32 PM
Thanks for sharing all these great pictures. Joel

Hello again,

This is sort of an evolution of RONDA's T-BOLT.
Late '63', Mid-'64' Late '64'. Some one asked the question. If Les Ritchey and Gas Ronda faced each other at the big Kingdon meet. According to my records. The answer is no.

Take care.........TOM
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/jal_attachments/1/4/1/1/9/3/1347307.thumb?d=1308106123 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1347307&d=1308106123) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/jal_attachments/1/4/1/1/9/3/1347308.thumb?d=1308106123 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1347308&d=1308106123) http://www.jalopyjournal.com/jal_attachments/1/4/1/1/9/3/1347309.thumb?d=1308106123 (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1347309&d=1308106123)

Falconred
06-17-2011, 08:12 AM
Years ago, "Larry" told me he/they switched the hood in the hotel parking lot.
I think the only way to find out which story is correct would be to find photos of the other cars to see if the #7 or any any other cars had a teardrop hood or if the #3 Ed Martin car wound up with a cloverleaf hood. It really doesn't matter. Regardless, the cloverleaf hood had an extremely short life span. The driver to change to the teardrop was to add the vents and I'd imagine somewhat improved aerodynamics.

Probably the hood you saw was from Bonner's car.

Regards,
Dennis

The car I was talking about seeing was being driven on the street at the time and I guess the closest one around that area would have been Bonners. Yep, I remember that Bonner's car had the cloverleaf hood on it in the beginning but is was changed to a bubble before the wreck.

Sorry I don't know whose photos these are except for the wreck and it was taken by Ronnie Evans.

Falconred
06-17-2011, 08:34 AM
I'm sure you probably have more but the only photos I have of cars with the cloverleaf hood are:

Brannon, Bonner, Ritchey and Ronda. I looked at the show day photo (I believe that you posted it before) but you can only tell they first three cars and the third in line had the bubble. The first two had the cloverleaf. Is your copy clear enough to tell anymore??

Take care. I hate I had to miss Bowling Green hope you all had a good time.

Deuces
06-17-2011, 08:35 AM
A couple of days ago, I seen a semi on Greenfield Rd. with the Dearborn Steel Tubing logo on the side of the trailor.. Guess they're still in business after all these years.. :) I wonder what the driver was hauling????

Tom S. in Tn.
06-17-2011, 10:10 AM
A couple of days ago, I seen a semi on Greenfield Rd. with the Dearborn Steel Tubing logo on the side of the trailor.. Guess they're still in business after all these years.. :) I wonder what the driver was hauling????


It wasn't anything to do with motor sports or racing I can guarantee you.
Tom S.

Tom S. in Tn.
06-17-2011, 10:18 AM
addendum:
Looks easy enough to make a cloverleaf, however the exact measured dimensions might be ever so little off, but who would actually know. I'm wondering why someone hasn't tried to clone a cloverleaf. They have everything else. Are they too rare to be artificially fabricated with a story as some kind of ultra rare find?
Tom S.

Falconred
06-17-2011, 03:04 PM
addendum:
Looks easy enough to make a cloverleaf, however the exact measured dimensions might be ever so little off, but who would actually know. I'm wondering why someone hasn't tried to clone a cloverleaf. They have everything else. Are they too rare to be artificially fabricated with a story as some kind of ultra rare find?
Tom S.


At this time none are known to still exist from what I understand. Dennis can bring more light to this than I can.

dlshady
06-17-2011, 09:51 PM
addendum:
I'm wondering why someone hasn't tried to clone a cloverleaf.

Probably because they're butt ugly... :D


Deron

Tom S. in Tn.
06-18-2011, 04:39 PM
It wasn't anything to do with motor sports or racing I can guarantee you.
Tom S.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/jal_attachments/1/4/3/6/2/0/1349759.thumb?d=1308345798
Genuine Jack just posted this current advertisement he saw recently in a very popular magazine, over on the Holman Moody history discussion.
I think I may have to take back my previous statement about DST and stand corrected. Detroit sure is undergoing some changes at the present time, but who knows what DST might have going on let alone what could have been in that truck.
Tom S. in Tn.

Tom S. in Tn.
06-18-2011, 04:44 PM
Probably because they're butt ugly... :D


Deron

Doesn't mean one couldn't let you retire young.
Tom

dlshady
06-18-2011, 06:44 PM
Doesn't mean one couldn't let you retire young.
Tom


Very true Tom, very true! On a smaller scale I've always wondered why one of the resin caster guys hasn't done a 1/24 scale version so some of us modelers could do a scale replica of some of the earliest cars.


Deron

Pops1532
06-19-2011, 11:29 AM
There's a maroon Thunderbolt on the Indianapolis Craigs List. Real or clone I don't know. Seller wants 50K

tommyd
06-19-2011, 12:41 PM
There's a maroon Thunderbolt on the Indianapolis Craigs List. Real or clone I don't know. Seller wants 50K
Not even close! that car has been for sale for a long time.

64Cyclone
06-19-2011, 04:18 PM
Not even close! that car has been for sale for a long time.

Yeah I was a little confused over the cruise control buttons on the stg wheel! ;)

Pops1532
06-19-2011, 06:11 PM
Yeah I was a little confused over the cruise control buttons on the stg wheel! ;)
I guess I should have scrolled down and looked at the bottom 2 pix.

havi
06-24-2011, 07:12 PM
Can anybody share pics of Larry Moran's, or Carl Murphy's Tasca Ford prototype clones? Thanks.

havi
06-25-2011, 10:08 AM
Those are the ones, thanks! (I saw them in the latest Fairlaner mag)

Hoosier Hurricane
06-26-2011, 05:42 AM
Yesterday at my wife's 50th high school reunion, I was talking cars with one of her classmates. He said he was at one time a partner in a speed shop in South Carolina, and they sponsored a Thunderbolt. It was red, with "Louie's Speed Shop" lettered on the sides. He said he could only remember the driver's first name, Jerry. Ran it in the SC, GA, TN, and FLA area. Is this car already known and documented? He didn't know the production number. It was originally a stick, they converted it to automatic.

John

Bucksnort
06-26-2011, 09:14 AM
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/Bucksnort57/Bucksnort/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net%202/2833567750082607023ZKLsaX_ph1.jpg

FEDER
06-26-2011, 10:33 AM
Had an FE party last week . How cool is it to have this in yer shop. This is one Beautifully restored T BOLT. Owner said it lived a real tough racing career. It had an altered wheelbase and straight axle at one time. Really a stunning car,with a NASTY 427.
FEDER

Falconred
06-28-2011, 02:51 PM
Can anybody share pics of Larry Moran's, or Carl Murphy's Tasca Ford prototype clones? Thanks.

Here's a couple of odd shots from several years ago. The last shot is from the white car.

Bucksnort
06-29-2011, 08:09 PM
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/Bucksnort57/Bucksnort/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net/Copied%20Drags%20From%20Net%202/2976848860082607023ajwXBa_ph1.jpg

Kentuckian
06-30-2011, 10:08 PM
We've seen the clones...now for pictures of the real '62 and '63 Tasca T-Bolts. Even though these pics are black/white, the '63 was Peacock Blue which actually has a green look.

'62 powered by 406
http://i53.tinypic.com/r753q1.jpg

'63 powered by 427
http://i51.tinypic.com/2lufh9k.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/103hmpg.jpg

Tom S. in Tn.
07-01-2011, 07:58 AM
Where these Tasca cars T-10's ? Too early to be C-6's weren't they ?

How many horsepower were 2X4 406's ?

The hoods look different than any others also. These look like med-risers with stock underhood bracing and no opening for air.
Why were the hi-beams blacked out on the 63' ?

These 2 were /FX prototypes where the idea for the DST Thunderbolt program to compete as stockers originally came from ? Am I understanding correctly?
Tom S.

Kentuckian
07-01-2011, 09:06 AM
Where these Tasca cars T-10's ? Too early to be C-6's weren't they ?

How many horsepower were 2X4 406's ?

The hoods look different than any others also. These look like med-risers with stock underhood bracing and no opening for air.
Why were the hi-beams blacked out on the 63' ?

These 2 were /FX prototypes where the idea for the DST Thunderbolt program to compete as stockers originally came from ? Am I understanding correctly?
Tom S.


Answers......

4-spd would have been a T-10 since the Top loader was not introduced until 1964. C-6 came out in 1966. Not sure if these cars were 4-spd or automatic. Anyone?

2X4 406 was used in the 10 A/FX Galaxies built in late '62. No horsepower rating given for A/FX since they were classed cubic inch to weight.

The '62 Tasca T-Bolt had a Thunderbird scoop grafted to the stock hood. Med-risers did not come out till 1965. The hood on the '63 Tasca T-Bolt was made to clear the hi-riser 427 installed in the car.

The original '63 did not have the headlights blacked out as seen in the picture taken at the 1963 Indy Nationals.

The 1964 DST Thunderbolt program came about from the prototype Tasca cars.

Dennis K.
07-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Answers......

4-spd would have been a T-10 since the Top loader was not introduced until 1964. C-6 came out in 1966. Not sure if these cars were 4-spd or automatic. Anyone?

2X4 406 was used in the 11 A/FX Galaxies built in late '62. No horsepower rating given for A/FX since they were classed cubic inch to weight.

The '62 Tasca T-Bolt had a Thunderbird scoop grafted to the stock hood. Med-risers did not come out till 1965. The hood on the '63 Tasca T-Bolt was made to clear the hi-riser 427 installed in the car.

The original '63 did not have the headlights blacked out as seen in the picture taken at the 1963 Indy Nationals.

The 1964 DST Thunderbolt program came about from the prototype Tasca cars.


There is a good article on the DST built 62 Fairlane in Mar 63 Custom Rodder. Both of these cars were built at Andy Hotton's Dearborn Steel Tubing Co by Jim Hammer Mason and his crew. The Bopper was connected with Frank Zimmerman Jr., Iacocca, et al ... and wound up with the cars. If you ever asked the late Hammer about BT, he would of given you an earful in no "uncertain" terms.

Before the 62, DST built a 60 Comet with a 352 and alum T-10. There were also a 60 Falcon with a 312 and allegedly another with a 430. I asked Dean McCann, who worked at Ford and also moonlighted at DST with Hotton where the idea of the Thunderbolt came from, he said it goes back to the "Fordillac", that is the idea of transplanting a large displacement V8 into a standard sized car.

According to the article the 62 had an MX auto installed later on. On the 63 the ram air was through the grill. If you look at photos, you can see how the grill matrix was bent horizontally to improve air flow. In addition, the 63 car design and development credit goes to Project Engineer Vern Tinsler and Dan Jones. Vern told me he worked with John Hollowell of Hollowell Engineering and did layouts and detail drawings before constructing the 1963 prototype Fairlane. I suspect that is why the 1964 cars wound up with a glass front bumper based on a 1963 not 1964 Fairlane. Likewise, the fiberglass doors are based on 1963 not 1964 doors. Also the DSO Thunderbolt parts list all have 65 not 62 body code part numbers, even though the 1964 cars are model 62 (Sedan) not model 65 (Hardtop).

There are a couple stories why the 63 was a HT and the 64 Sedans. One was the order form was incorrectly filled out for the 1964's, and the other was the 2 Dr Sedan had better weight distribution. I guess the real answer has been lost to time.

Not all of the 62 Ltwts ran 8V induction, as two cars, the Bill Waters Ford-Ronda and the Ed Martin Ford-Ritchey cars ran SS/S class. They were all steel lightweights with bench seats. The other eight cars ran A or B/FX class.

The dark blue Stark Hickey car did not go to the Summer Nationals as it was way too illegal for class. Dan Jones indicated this to me. The frame top was all cut out and solid body mounts replaced the rubber ones. He didn't think that frame ever left Ford and he is right.

Regards,
Dennis

tommyd
07-01-2011, 06:58 PM
Dennis is like that old E.F. HUTTON commercial......When he speaks we all stop and listen! Thanks for the cool history lesson on these cars. Dennis, I've been hearing some SERIOUS talk of a certain T bolt from the Indy area getting restored! YES!

breezeway
07-03-2011, 12:57 PM
Hi, I had to rub my eye's. Your Fairlane looks exactly like mine. Color,patina,everything. I've been driving mine as T-bolt for a few years now. Can I have your e-mail address?
Greg.

tommyd
07-03-2011, 05:47 PM
Breezway, tommyd or Dennis K?

Tom S. in Tn.
07-04-2011, 09:29 PM
Let me make sure I understand correctly:
The 2X4 406 in the 62' pictured was a low riser and never a FMC option ? Medium risers did not come out until 65' ?
Was 63' the first year for high riser option ?

Also, I am amazed. T'Bolts were in the parts book ! ?
#2595; " Also the DSO Thunderbolt parts list all have 65 not 62 body code part numbers, even though the 1964 cars are model 62 (Sedan) not model 65 (Hardtop). "
Did long traction bar rear axle, carb plenum, glass and plexi body parts, ad infinitum etc.... all have FMC part #'s assigned to them ! ?
Tom S. in Tn.

Dennis K.
07-05-2011, 06:07 AM
Let me make sure I understand correctly:
The 2X4 406 in the 62' pictured was a low riser and never a FMC option ? Medium risers did not come out until 65' ?
Was 63' the first year for high riser option ?

Also, I am amazed. T'Bolts were in the parts book ! ?
#2595; " Also the DSO Thunderbolt parts list all have 65 not 62 body code part numbers, even though the 1964 cars are model 62 (Sedan) not model 65 (Hardtop). "
Did long traction bar rear axle, carb plenum, glass and plexi body parts, ad infinitum etc.... all have FMC part #'s assigned to them ! ?
Tom S. in Tn.

As on any Ford that was built on Domestic Special Order (DSO), a Special Parts List was supplied with every vehicle. Long bars were an afterthought, however the "as delivered" Housing Assy - Rear Axle with the track bars was C4OA-4010-A. The plenum? (airbox) was C4OA-9C651-A. Fender Assy - Front R/L C4OA-16005/6-A. Glass - Back Window C4OA-6542006-A, etc ... . Everything is there.

Regards,
Dennis

Tom S. in Tn.
07-05-2011, 07:54 AM
I'll be darned......... I would have never even guessed this !
Thanx Dennis; Tom S.

bubba22349
07-06-2011, 02:18 AM
"There is a good article on the DST built 62 Fairlane in Mar 63 Custom Rodder. Both of these cars were built at Andy Hotton's Dearborn Steel Tubing Co by Jim Hammer Mason and his crew. The Bopper was connected with Frank Zimmerman Jr., Iacocca, et al ... and wound up with the cars. If you ever asked the late Hammer about BT, he would of given you an earful in no "uncertain" terms.

Before the 62, DST built a 60 Comet with a 352 and alum T-10. There were also a 60 Falcon with a 312 and allegedly another with a 430. I asked Dean McCann, who worked at Ford and also moonlighted at DST with Hotton where the idea of the Thunderbolt came from, he said it goes back to the "Fordillac", that is the idea of transplanting a large displacement V8 into a standard sized car.

According to the article the 62 had an MX auto installed later on. On the 63 the ram air was through the grill. If you look at photos, you can see how the grill matrix was bent horizontally to improve air flow. In addition, the 63 car design and development credit goes to Project Engineer Vern Tinsler and Dan Jones. Vern told me he worked with John Hollowell of Hollowell Engineering and did layouts and detail drawings before constructing the 1963 prototype Fairlane. I suspect that is why the 1964 cars wound up with a glass front bumper based on a 1963 not 1964 Fairlane. Likewise, the fiberglass doors are based on 1963 not 1964 doors. Also the DSO Thunderbolt parts list all have 65 not 62 body code part numbers, even though the 1964 cars are model 62 (Sedan) not model 65 (Hardtop).

There are a couple stories why the 63 was a HT and the 64 Sedans. One was the order form was incorrectly filled out for the 1964's, and the other was the 2 Dr Sedan had better weight distribution. I guess the real answer has been lost to time.

Not all of the 62 Ltwts ran 8V induction, as two cars, the Bill Waters Ford-Ronda and the Ed Martin Ford-Ritchey cars ran SS/S class. They were all steel lightweights with bench seats. The other eight cars ran A or B/FX class.

The dark blue Stark Hickey car did not go to the Summer Nationals as it was way too illegal for class. Dan Jones indicated this to me. The frame top was all cut out and solid body mounts replaced the rubber ones. He didn't think that frame ever left Ford and he is right.

Regards,
Dennis "

Has any one found any Pictures of those above early cars? Have also been looking for that " Mar 63 Custom Rodder" art. so far no luck.

Thank you, Robert

Tom S. in Tn.
07-06-2011, 06:55 AM
I'd like a look at that article, or any others as well.
Thanx; Tom S. in Tn.

cobrajet2
07-08-2011, 09:31 PM
From Maple Grove this past weekend.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/geezers/geezers1.jpg

cobrajet2
07-08-2011, 09:32 PM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n49/toosupermc/geezers/geezers2.jpg

Kentuckian
07-12-2011, 10:32 PM
Here's a picture of the Doenges Ford Thunderbolt I found hanging on the wall of a friends garage.

http://i51.tinypic.com/33w1v8y.jpg

LennyFreebern
07-13-2011, 12:26 AM
The car is not an unrestored original car, it was restored by Randy DeLisio.

Only the first eleven had the driveshaft loop manufactured from rectangular tubing. The loop for the white cars were a combination of rectangular tubing and a radiused fabricated assembly.

My guess the loop was modified sometime during its history and for what ever reason it was decided to leave it alone.

Vehicle delivered to Collins Motor Sales, Ogdensburg NY
Morris Lee

Regards,
Dennis

I'm new here Dennis so bear with me please. I'm extremely interested in all info regarding the Collins Motor Sales car from Ogdensburg, NY owned by Morris Lee. You see, I was told by the guy I bought my T-Bolt from that he found the car disassembled in a farmers field in Ogdensburg. Collins Ford doesn't exist anymore but I might be able to track down Morris Lee. Any info on this car would be appreciated. My car was an automatic. I sold the car to a guy named George Lopez in Clay, NY back in 1974.

Dennis K.
07-17-2011, 10:50 AM
I'm new here Dennis so bear with me please. I'm extremely interested in all info regarding the Collins Motor Sales car from Ogdensburg, NY owned by Morris Lee. You see, I was told by the guy I bought my T-Bolt from that he found the car disassembled in a farmers field in Ogdensburg. Collins Ford doesn't exist anymore but I might be able to track down Morris Lee. Any info on this car would be appreciated. My car was an automatic. I sold the car to a guy named George Lopez in Clay, NY back in 1974.

This was the car that John Paradise from Super Ford Magazine owned and used to do the series of restoration articles back in the early 80's. It was pretty much put back to "as delivered" condition with an HX automatic, etc ... .

John eventually sold the car and it changed hands numerous times after that. The last I knew the car was on the East coast.

Regards,
Dennis

LennyFreebern
07-19-2011, 09:07 AM
This was the car that John Paradise from Super Ford Magazine owned and used to do the series of restoration articles back in the early 80's. It was pretty much put back to "as delivered" condition with an HX automatic, etc ... .

John eventually sold the car and it changed hands numerous times after that. The last I knew the car was on the East coast.

Regards,
Dennis

Thanks Dennis. Could you contact me directly about the history of my car? I've discovered most of the details but there are some that you may be able to help me with. My email is: sheppie@theriver.com

Thanks, Len

WICKEDJOHN
07-27-2011, 02:51 PM
Hey Lenny,

I am not sure, but this looks a lot like your car minus the wheel wells opened up?

WICKEDJOHN
07-27-2011, 02:57 PM
Hey guys, where can I get a few of these decals? :)

LennyFreebern
07-27-2011, 03:35 PM
Hey Lenny,

I am not sure, but this looks a lot like your car minus the wheel wells opened up?

It sure does, but its not. The dash and steering column on my former car were painted blue up until the time Randy restored it.

tommyd
07-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Hey guys, where can I get a few of these decals? :)
Got one on my back window and I have an extra.:)

Tom S. in Tn.
07-28-2011, 11:18 AM
Why is the 427 flag/bird emblem in front of the front wheel openings on the blue car pictured here?
I thought on Fairlanes they were always behind the wheel opening.
Tom S. in Tn.

6t5frlane
07-28-2011, 12:46 PM
Hey guys, where can I get a few of these decals? :)

http://kmason.homestead.com/LINKPAGE.html
or google Dearborn Steel Tubing. I ordered 2 hats from him and got 2 stickers

LennyFreebern
07-29-2011, 06:32 PM
This was the car that John Paradise from Super Ford Magazine owned and used to do the series of restoration articles back in the early 80's. It was pretty much put back to "as delivered" condition with an HX automatic, etc ... .

John eventually sold the car and it changed hands numerous times after that. The last I knew the car was on the East coast.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis,

The car was restored by Randy Delisio as you know. Randy then bought it and eventually sold it to Boyd Coddington in CA, then to Ed Burdon in NY, then to a Jim Light, and finally to James Sartori in MA who still owns it.

Lenny

John Brown
07-30-2011, 10:08 PM
Why is the 427 flag/bird emblem in front of the front wheel openings on the blue car pictured here?
I thought on Fairlanes they were always behind the wheel opening.
Tom S. in Tn.

There are lots of differences between early and later cars.

Tom S. in Tn.
07-31-2011, 07:35 AM
Was the side molding on these cars always accented in black?
Tom S. in Tn.

64 Thunderbolt
07-31-2011, 09:14 AM
Was the side molding on these cars always accented in black?
Tom S. in Tn.

Tom, in researching this & looking at old photo's the white cars had black accented moldings & the burgundy cars had white accented moldings. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here!

Thomas.S
08-08-2011, 01:02 PM
This is the engine that sat in Carmel Thunderbolten, it will be installed in my T-Bolt clone.

Thomas

Thomas.S
08-11-2011, 11:56 AM
A picture from Sweden 1978

Motorhead Extraordinaire
08-11-2011, 05:58 PM
I came across some interesting Tasca Ford SOHC motor trivia today while at R&R Machine in Londonderry, NH.

Ray at R&R used to work at Miller Machine who did most of Tasca's SOHC motor work way back in the day. Phil Miller built my SOHC motor in the Wild Child a few years ago and I remember Phil telling me about the load upon load of SOHC ALUMINUM heads he and Ray were always building for TASCA. I've been around a few SOHC motors but never one with aluminum heads. Rumors always talked of some of these heads still being around locally.

Well low and behold Ray was in the midst of building a SOHC motor for a guys nostalgia funny car and sitting in the shop today at R&R were a set of ALUMINUM SOHC heads, which as most folks know are extremely rare to say the least. Ray could not confirm if these were from the Tasca lot. Other than Tasca's aluminum SOHC heads, he was not aware of anyone else who was using the aluminum heads back in the 60's.

It's always great talking to these old timers who actually lived what most of us just dream of. These old timers are still the go-to guys for this ultra rare stuff.

Al Kitts
08-13-2011, 05:11 AM
Looking for more info. on the Willis Ford out of Waterbury, VT... T-Bolt was driven by Al Willis! His T-bolt was tough to beat and campaigned in Northern New England/Canada! Any more pics...and where is it now??? Thanks, John :)

Hi John:

Al Kitts here. Driver of the Willis Fords. Would like to talk to you. Ask and i will answer. akitts82@mchsi.com.

www.thunderbolt.cc
08-14-2011, 02:40 PM
I always thought that this was one of the best looking lettering jobs from '64. Haven't talked to Mike in a while - hope he's doing ok.

Craig

Troublemaker427
08-15-2011, 05:38 PM
Is anyone interested in an informal get together of FE powered vehicles at Cecil County Dragway on 10/29/11? They are running a RAM series race that day and always offer a test & tune option as part of the day. The last couple of years I've attended this event and gotten as many passes as I've wanted. The track is always prepped very well for this event and the air is usually killer at Cecil that time of year. I'd almost guarantee you will run your best pass ever there during this event.

I've talked to the promoter of the RAM racing series and we can have our own section of the pits too. We could do a little grudge racing and some serious bench racing too. Very informal, just a chance to get together before the weather turns.

The only cost would be the normal test & tune entry fee. Cecil County is in Maryland near I-95 for those that have never been there. Very easy to get to with lots of drag racing history there.

I'm not looking to make a dime on this. Just trying to get a group of FE powered vehicled together for a good time. You don't have to race to be part of the event. Just show up with a FE powered car or truck and park with the group in the pits. It doesn't matter if you have real Thunderbolt or a Edsel. If it's FE powered show up and meet others with the same interests in engines.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Dennis K.
08-16-2011, 11:10 AM
I always thought that this was one of the best looking lettering jobs from '64. Haven't talked to Mike in a while - hope he's doing ok.

Craig

Guten Morgen

What's up?

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
08-16-2011, 11:27 AM
Is anyone interested in an informal get together of FE powered vehicles at Cecil County Dragway on 10/29/11? They are running a RAM series race that day and always offer a test & tune option as part of the day. The last couple of years I've attended this event and gotten as many passes as I've wanted. The track is always prepped very well for this event and the air is usually killer at Cecil that time of year. I'd almost guarantee you will run your best pass ever there during this event.

I've talked to the promoter of the RAM racing series and we can have our own section of the pits too. We could do a little grudge racing and some serious bench racing too. Very informal, just a chance to get together before the weather turns.

The only cost would be the normal test & tune entry fee. Cecil County is in Maryland near I-95 for those that have never been there. Very easy to get to with lots of drag racing history there.

I'm not looking to make a dime on this. Just trying to get a group of FE powered vehicled together for a good time. You don't have to race to be part of the event. Just show up with a FE powered car or truck and park with the group in the pits. It doesn't matter if you have real Thunderbolt or a Edsel. If it's FE powered show up and meet others with the same interests in engines.
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->


Jody,
Wish that I lived closer, sounds like fun. With the cool "mineshaft" air you ought to see some good numbers.

Regards,
Dennis

Troublemaker427
08-16-2011, 08:02 PM
Dennis it sure would be nice to see any of your FE cars there!!

Kentuckian
08-24-2011, 05:37 PM
Btt

bkhpah
08-24-2011, 07:27 PM
Good to see you found the HAMB Craig..BKH

bubba22349
08-29-2011, 08:51 PM
"Ray could not confirm if these were from the Tasca lot. Other than Tasca's aluminum SOHC heads, he was not aware of anyone else who was using the aluminum heads back in the 60's."

There were a few funny car teams here on the West Coast running the aluminum heads like Dyno Don, Don Prudhomme, and Gas Ronda. I bought the parts to build my SOHC from a funny car racer near my house in summer of 1969. He was switching over to a Boss 429. There were some other lightweight parts they made for them also like Magnesium valve covers etc. There were some new SOHC crate motors back than too went to ED Pinks to buy a set of cams and other parts he had 10 to 15 sitting in his shop that he said he bought cheap When Ford started going with the Boss 9 program.

Dave Lyall
08-30-2011, 07:46 PM
I came across some interesting Tasca Ford SOHC motor trivia today while at R&R Machine in Londonderry, NH.

Ray at R&R used to work at Miller Machine who did most of Tasca's SOHC motor work way back in the day. Phil Miller built my SOHC motor in the Wild Child a few years ago and I remember Phil telling me about the load upon load of SOHC ALUMINUM heads he and Ray were always building for TASCA. I've been around a few SOHC motors but never one with aluminum heads. Rumors always talked of some of these heads still being around locally.

Well low and behold Ray was in the midst of building a SOHC motor for a guys nostalgia funny car and sitting in the shop today at R&R were a set of ALUMINUM SOHC heads, which as most folks know are extremely rare to say the least. Ray could not confirm if these were from the Tasca lot. Other than Tasca's aluminum SOHC heads, he was not aware of anyone else who was using the aluminum heads back in the 60's.

It's always great talking to these old timers who actually lived what most of us just dream of. These old timers are still the go-to guys for this ultra rare stuff.

Aluminum SHOC cylinder heads had been distributed to all Drag Council Members by mid 1966. When NASCAR rules became very unfavorable for the SHOC, Charlie Gray's Ford Division Drag Race Group funded development under Engineer Joe Eastman and began developing and producing drag race hardware, starting with the 8V intake manifold, resolving high RPM problems like oiling issues, valve train resonance and then developed and produced lightweight aluminum cylinder heads. Dave Lyall

2002indian
08-31-2011, 04:38 AM
galpin ford thunderbolt
driver tom ferris
raced at san fernando drag strip san fernando california

Troublemaker427
08-31-2011, 06:35 AM
galpin ford thunderbolt
driver tom ferris
raced at san fernando drag strip san fernando california
Great shot. I've never seen a shot of this car.. Thanks for posting it!!

mercuryjunky
09-01-2011, 10:35 PM
T-Bolt on the loose. Neet to see it driving.

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/swKMPHaXJHo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

64Cyclone
09-02-2011, 09:26 AM
My old eye's couldn't see Tom.s's pic of the Carmel Ford Thunderbolt from when it was in Sweden so I enlarged it.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/carmelford.jpg

fordflashback
09-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Originally Posted by Dave Lyall
The first 10 Purple Thunderbolts were issued as follows:
Dick Brannan-1, Phil Bonner-1, Bob Tasca-1, Bob Ford-1, Les Ritchey-1, Gas Rhonda-1, Mickey Tomson-2, Ford Engineering-1, Ford Livonia Transmission-1. (For automatic transmission development)
The Ford Engineering Thunderbolt was eventually painted like Len Richters Bob Ford car, and was sometimes run locally driven either by Paul Harvey or Bill Humphrey.
Dave Lyall

The 623 Bob Ford Automatic car had the "9" decal on the windshield, see attached. This photo was taken at the 1964 Winternationals, for some reason the passenger side of the car was not lettered, however the driver's side was.

Wickersham Ford in Orange TX received the other car you were asking about. However it to may of been referred to as the number 9 car as that is where it falls in the delivery list and is also the ninth car in the Drag Council presentation photo taken at the test track in Oct 1963.

Also, on the Mickey Thompson/Jess Tyree Thunderbolt, it was originally assigned to Bob Ford Inc then reassigned to Mickey Thompson.

Regards,
Dennis

http://dearbornflashback.com/images/tbolts/bobford623tbolt01a.JPG



It seems Paul Harvey is connected to two Tbolts. I did a forum search and didn't find much more about the Bob Ford #623 car than these two quotes above. The Thunderbolt website (http://www.angelfire.com/hi/427fairlane/bobford.html) has a fuzzy photo of it and says someone died at the wheel in 1965, who was that? Any other history or photos on this car?



Also, the Hot Rod article features the yellow Jerry Alderman Ford Tbolt, claiming Paul Harvey was the GM at Alderman in 1964. My understanding is Harvey was working at Bob Ford from 1961 to 1966 (per Dave Lyall post#970). If that is the case, what is Harveys connection to this car?............

Don't be fooled by the immaculate Tucson Yellow paint. Originally painted white, this early-build Thunderbolt was delivered to Alderman Ford, where General Manager Paul Harvey had it resprayed the more cheerful hue. During the restoration, Ed Strzelecki waffled on what color to shoot it, eventually assigning the day-two yellow paint scheme to Dan Groth's capable hands. The body is totally rust free and has never been cut.

Read more: http://www.hotrod.com/featuredvehicles/hrdp_0911_ford_thunderbolt_reunion/viewall.html#ixzz1X6tlTxk1


http://dearbornflashback.com/images/tbolts/fcayellowbolt01c.JPG

Troublemaker427
09-05-2011, 07:10 PM
http://www.fairlanet.com/images/FE/feflyer.pdf

Above is the link for a flyer for the FE Get Together at Cecil County Dragway scheduled for 10-29-11. The flyer was developed by Doug Bender from the Fairlane Club of America and I really appreciate his help. Please feel free to print out the flyer and give them out if you get a chance. Also spread the word about the event. Word of mouth is the best advertisement!!! It will be a great day of FE fun!!!

Could we see a "real" T-bolt show up?

Troublemaker427
09-05-2011, 07:17 PM
Here is Brannan running the Ramchargers at Cecil.

mercuryjunky
09-05-2011, 09:42 PM
Jody
Wish I could go to your get together at Cecil, For sure next year. I want to run at as many of the original tracks as possible and that one is at the top of the list.

Heres a great shot of me racing my friends Thunderbolt At Julesburg. I wasnt able to see the real deal back in 64 So for me this is as good as it gets, I could race like this all day, everyday.

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4682193/scan0001_detail.jpg

65COMET
09-06-2011, 12:15 AM
Ken;lose the easy-up and it looks like 1964!!!GREAT PICTURE!!! I agree with you,not enough pure nostalgia type meets out West . ROY.

Dennis K.
09-08-2011, 07:59 PM
It seems Paul Harvey is connected to two Tbolts. I did a forum search and didn't find much more about the Bob Ford #623 car than these two quotes above. The Thunderbolt website (http://www.angelfire.com/hi/427fairlane/bobford.html) has a fuzzy photo of it and says someone died at the wheel in 1965, who was that? Any other history or photos on this car?



Also, the Hot Rod article features the yellow Jerry Alderman Ford Tbolt, claiming Paul Harvey was the GM at Alderman in 1964. My understanding is Harvey was working at Bob Ford from 1961 to 1966 (per Dave Lyall post#970). If that is the case, what is Harveys connection to this car?............



http://dearbornflashback.com/images/tbolts/fcayellowbolt01c.JPG


Paul Harvey was connected to at least four T-Bolts. The 622 S/S car, 623 S/SA car, and a third Burgundy car that was assigned to Bob Ford Inc., then went to Mickey Thompson to build the Hemi car. There also was the #624 A/MP car T-Bolt Too driven by Jerry Harvey. It was sold to Sunset Fireworks owner Tony Cicerella (sp) in Toledo.

The 623 Automatic car went to Harold Turner Ford in Center Line MI and was converted to a four speed. Bill Molby crashed in it at Motor City and lost his life. Kenny Vogt told me years ago he almost got the automatic car from Paul Harvey, but received the 622 Richter car to campaign in 1965 because the suspension was already set up with the long bars. Ken said he wondered if that would of been him had he got the automatic car.

Regards,
Dennis

Dave Lyall
09-13-2011, 06:44 PM
Paul Harvey, a tough & savy ex-Navy guy, was a Indiana Native, and was the Sales Manager at Jerry Alderman Ford prior to coming to Bob Ford in late 1961. After he came to Bob Ford, he was the General Manager with an ownership position in the company as his enticement to come. He stayed for 5 years, returning to Indy in late '66 to open his own store, Paul Harvey Ford. Paul was a skilled, consummate businessman, as well as a huge drag race fan. While at Bob Ford, he shared some of his street racing exploits with me racing as far back as 1953. I may have the following part of my story wrong, but as I remember it, he also said he was the Sales Manager at Bob Ford in 1956, (before Jerry Alderman) and as a favor to his Ford Executive friends OK'd having the dealer completely re-skin and repaint Troy Ruttman's badly damaged '56 Ford USAC stock car in exchange for having Bob Ford lettered on the car at the Detroit Fairgrounds labor day Stock Car race, which Troy Won. Troy defeated 2nd place finisher Iggy Katona in a '56 Ford supported by DST, in a sprited race that had everybody standing. I was at that race and thought the car brand new, only to find out it was a well-used veteran with a good make-over.

Dave Lyall
09-13-2011, 07:01 PM
The yellow and black paint scheme was a Paul Harvey favorite, our Bob Ford '62 406 was yellow and black, (originally Paul Harvey's demonstrator) and he had the 63 lightweight painted that color as soon as we got it back from Les Ritchey. Paul also told me all his demonstrators were yellow and black all the way back to 1953. Although yellow was Paul’s color before the Champaign Color deal, he was not at Jerry Alderman in 1964. However, they may have kept the color scheme Paul had started there, to keep their identity.

tbolt64804
09-13-2011, 09:01 PM
A big thank you,thank you,thank you to Jody Aberts for this thread, what a godsend for us Thunderbolt lovers. Question? Why is it so darn hard to post photos of T-Bolts from the 60's.?? Help!! I've tried and tried.?? Also, someone please help me find out more info on the Farnham Ford driven by Bob Balderson. It was sold to Donati-Glassco in 1965. I've posted info before and only got reply from Dennis K. Come on people. Jim

Falconred
09-14-2011, 04:07 PM
Any body coming down to Panama City, FL, Sept. 23-24, for the Old Drag Racers Reunion?

mercuryjunky
09-15-2011, 09:01 PM
Looking for some Prayers for Mine and Fast Eddies Friend Dale Schroeder. Dale has the 64 T-Bolt Tribute Race car . Dale was involved in a wreck in his T-Bolt this last weekend out at Julesburg Dragway. Something happened to his car at the end of the track after winning his race, It took a hard right turn and rolled 6 times. I just found out tonight his wife Sandy called asking for Prayers. A couple of compresion fractures in his back, three broke ribs, and a punctured lung. I guess he has been in and out of critical condition. Dale, Eddie and myself were going to race Julesburg this next weekend and then get ready to Caravan out to Cal. Hot Rod reunion. I dont want to lose another friend this year, You better make it Dale.

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4699377/100_0190_detail.JPG

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4699385/100_0195_detail.JPG

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4699393/IMG_5972_detail.jpg

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4699397/100_0194_detail.JPG

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4682193/scan0001_detail.jpg

http://hubgarage.s3.amazonaws.com/photos/4682185/scan0002_detail.jpg

DrDano
09-15-2011, 09:47 PM
Best wishes on his recovery, hope he pulls through a-ok. Did Dale by chance have a second '64, white tube-chassis car?

mercuryjunky
09-15-2011, 09:57 PM
Best wishes on his recovery, hope he pulls through a-ok. Did Dale by chance have a second '64, white tube-chassis car?

Thanks, One of the nicest guys Ive met out there racing. We just starting traveling together this last year. He watched me debut my Comet out at CHHR in 08 and caught the bug for Nostalgic racing. I'm not sure about the tube chassis car. I know he had bought up 4 or 5 T-bolt projects. He said he really wanted to do a 2 door T-Bolt Wagon.

DrDano
09-15-2011, 10:17 PM
I'm pretty sure I met him at Bandimere a few weeks ago at test-n-tune Wednesday night. After the night was done he was loading the other car in the trailer and noticed me taking a picture of it. Was super nice, invited me into his hauler to talk Thunderbolts and showed me pictures of the car above despite the weather coming in and a complete stranger bothering him.

Ray C's son
09-18-2011, 09:25 PM
Here's a couple pics posted over at the Stock-S/S-F/X thread by FAM4WILLYS that I don't remember seeing here. Note the cloverleaf hood.

Kevin

WICKEDJOHN
09-21-2011, 08:34 PM
Calling all Thunderbolt guru's...I would love to know what happened to this very cool '32 Ford roadster? :)

jay7262
09-21-2011, 11:07 PM
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3347/028oo.jpg

jay7262
09-21-2011, 11:15 PM
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/3356/015fz.jpg

TomP64
09-21-2011, 11:40 PM
Is that 32 roadster supposed to have a 427 in it? Cool.

Best wishes to Dale, we don't need to lose any more Ford guys with taste.

I hope my 64 can make it's 9 second pass next weekend so i can retire it. It's going 134 mph and i'm using a j shaped hoop rollbar with one backbrace and one side. Bare minimum legal to 10.0. Once it's illegally fast i'll finish the 64 Comet which has a full chromemoly cage and use the Fairlane for the street.

ragnastyford
09-26-2011, 08:12 AM
Hmm the only drivers ive seen drive a Ford UniBody pickup is Stu Wilson, then later Jack Whitby. Which was the ''F100 xl''
the original Driver of the unibody pickup called f100xl with stuwilson on it wasJack(skinny)Fuche he worked for DST &drove there drag cars after 63 summer nationals truck was sold to jack Whitby then DST started building the t bolts Jack B Fuche!! :D

tommyd
09-27-2011, 07:18 PM
Calling all Thunderbolt guru's...I would love to know what happened to this very cool '32 Ford roadster? :)
Wickedjohn, I talked to my brother who is friends with Glidden and he said that he was pretty sure that 32 was Bobby Allen's of Glidden and Allen. Don't know what happened to it but it had a 427 of some kind he thought. Maybe a Cammer. He is going to make a call and see if he can find anything out about the car. Tom.

WICKEDJOHN
09-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Wickedjohn, I talked to my brother who is friends with Glidden and he said that he was pretty sure that 32 was Bobby Allen's of Glidden and Allen. Don't know what happened to it but it had a 427 of some kind he thought. Maybe a Cammer. He is going to make a call and see if he can find anything out about the car. Tom.


Keep me posted on the '32 Ford roadster! :)

jorswift
09-30-2011, 07:48 AM
My Father-In-Law and I jus became new owners of an "orginal" Thunderbolt! We actually bought 2, but one was a cheap version clone, which we resold and the other is the real deal! Check it out!

64 Thunderbolt
09-30-2011, 08:22 AM
My Father-In-Law and I jus became new owners of an "orginal" Thunderbolt! We actually bought 2, but one was a cheap version clone, which we resold and the other is the real deal! Check it out!

Do you have any pictures of the Real one?

jorswift
09-30-2011, 10:24 AM
Do you have any pictures of the Real one?

The real one is the white one and the clone is the purple one in the pics above. Thanks.

Falconred
09-30-2011, 11:25 AM
Sorry but the white one is also a clone. All the original cars were sedans (post) where yours is a hardtop. The only hardtop one that is even considered a close cousin is the one built for Bonner.

jorswift
09-30-2011, 12:36 PM
Sorry but the white one is also a clone. All the original cars were sedans (post) where yours is a hardtop. The only hardtop one that is even considered a close cousin is the one built for Bonner.

OH MAN. I didnt know to much about them before he went out and bought it. He was told it was an original. Can you tell me a bit more why it isnt and what an "original" is? thanks.

64 Thunderbolt
09-30-2011, 01:17 PM
OH MAN. I didnt know to much about them before he went out and bought it. He was told it was an original. Can you tell me a bit more why it isnt and what an "original" is? thanks.

Falconred has already said it. I needs to be a post car not a hardtop.
I hope he didn't pay to much for this car!

jorswift
09-30-2011, 02:59 PM
What are the VIN #'s? I was told that if it had a K in it, that is how Ford
distinguished it. It has a "K" in the vin #. What are some other factors? Thanks.

Kentuckian
09-30-2011, 09:39 PM
What are the VIN #'s? I was told that if it had a K in it, that is how Ford
distinguished it. It has a "K" in the vin #. What are some other factors? Thanks.

The K in the fifth spot of the VIN means the car was a hi-po 289. The K in the second spot of the VIN only means the car was built in Kansas City. Which is yours?

All of the original 100 1964 Thunderbolt Fairlane serial #'s start off with 4F41K.

Troublemaker427
09-30-2011, 10:38 PM
The purple one isn't even a Fairlane or built in 1964..... It's a 1963 Galaxie!!! No Thunderbolts in those photos.....

Algon
10-01-2011, 09:38 AM
Anyone have any record of the timeslips for the original ThunderBolt cars with a given version of the 427? Most of what I've found for the cars early on so far are mid 13s before major modifications.

6t5frlane
10-01-2011, 10:26 AM
Paul Harvey was connected to at least four T-Bolts. The 622 S/S car, 623 S/SA car, and a third Burgundy car that was assigned to Bob Ford Inc., then went to Mickey Thompson to build the Hemi car. There also was the #624 A/MP car T-Bolt Too driven by Jerry Harvey. It was sold to Sunset Fireworks owner Tony Cicerella (sp) in Toledo.

The 623 Automatic car went to Harold Turner Ford in Center Line MI and was converted to a four speed. Bill Molby crashed in it at Motor City and lost his life. Kenny Vogt told me years ago he almost got the automatic car from Paul Harvey, but received the 622 Richter car to campaign in 1965 because the suspension was already set up with the long bars. Ken said he wondered if that would of been him had he got the automatic car.

Regards,
Dennis


What about the 65 Thunderbolt Jerry Harvey had after Droke...??

Ray C's son
10-01-2011, 01:59 PM
The purple one isn't even a Fairlane or built in 1964..... It's a 1963 Galaxie!!! No Thunderbolts in those photos.....

I was wondering how long that was going to take. I really do hope he didn't pay too much for the Fairlane.

KRH

Dennis K.
10-01-2011, 05:26 PM
Anyone have any record of the timeslips for the original ThunderBolt cars with a given version of the 427? Most of what I've found for the cars early on so far are mid 13s before major modifications.


Yes, the factory burgandy cars when evaluated by Dan Jones before release ran a best 11.95 to 12.18 ET and 119.84 to 121.13 mph.

Even the DSO white cars with an automatic would turn low 12's, as delivered from DST. A stick car 11.90's. Blueprinting the engine, a Crane 300 Zip cam, and different tires in legal S/S trim would get a stick car in 11.70's or better.

This doesn't take into account long bars, 7,000 kit, and 4.86 gears. Granted, these are modifications.

Where did you read/hear mid 13's? Was that on seven cylinders?

Regards,
Dennis

wool1962
10-02-2011, 07:34 PM
regarding the white clone, it has a 429 thunderjet engine and a c4 in it. it was for sale on ebay recently out of mechanicsville va.

jorswift
10-03-2011, 09:16 AM
Not sure the whole VIN. Will have to look next time Im in town. Man, thanks all for clarifing the info.

64 Thunderbolt
10-03-2011, 10:20 AM
regarding the white clone, it has a 429 thunderjet engine and a c4 in it. it was for sale on ebay recently out of mechanicsville va.
I remember seeing this one now! I thought I had seen this one before!

I was wondering how long that was going to take. I really do hope he didn't pay too much for the Fairlane.

KRH

I agree with you! I just didn't have the heart to say it!

MD1320guy
10-03-2011, 01:34 PM
Headed to Henderson, NC for the weekend at the 10th Annual East Coast Drag News Hall of Fame & Car Show. Hope to see lots of Fords & Mercurys from the 60s & maybe meet a few HAMBers.

64 Thunderbolt
10-03-2011, 02:39 PM
Headed to Henderson, NC for the weekend at the 10th Annual East Coast Drag News Hall of Fame & Car Show. Hope to see lots of Fords & Mercurys from the 60s & maybe meet a few HAMBers.

I was really wanting to go but my boy has his State Tournament this weekend in Baseball & I won't be able to go. Get some pic & post them!
I've heard this is one AWESOME show!

Bomb
10-03-2011, 02:44 PM
Here's a real one that's going on the Mecum auction.
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963&utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DA1011_S141.1

Tom S. in Tn.
10-04-2011, 07:41 AM
Here's a real one that's going on the Mecum auction.
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963&utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DA1011_S141.1


Can you post a link so we can see what his car brings if it sells?
Thanks for this info; Tom S. in Tn.

Dennis K.
10-04-2011, 10:59 AM
Here's a real one that's going on the Mecum auction.
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963&utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DA1011_S141.1


Nice looking car. I recall selling a set of take apart race headers to one of the previous owners, had Brent Hajek deliver them for me at one of the Columbus Meets.

Car had a dash mounted tach in 1964. Someone must of filled the bracket holes in? Need to get the Apron Struts reinstalled, the shock towers will cave in if you don't. It certainly will be interesting what it will bring.

Regards,
Dennis

Ray C's son
10-04-2011, 04:08 PM
Nice looking car. I recall selling a set of take apart race headers to one of the previous owners, had Brent Hajek deliver them for me at one of the Columbus Meets.

Car had a dash mounted tach in 1964. Someone must of filled the bracket holes in? Need to get the Apron Struts reinstalled, the shock towers will cave in if you don't. It certainly will be interesting what it will bring.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis,
Were they all delivered with tachs mounted on the dashboards? Were they all Rotunda tachs?

Kevin

Dennis K.
10-04-2011, 05:16 PM
Dennis,
Were they all delivered with tachs mounted on the dashboards? Were they all Rotunda tachs?

Kevin

No, the burgundy cars had column mounted Sun 8,500 tachs. There may be at least one white car that did not have a dashboard mounted tach. Allegedly, there are no bracket holes, nor can the tach be seen in a circa 1964 picture.

There are a few anomilies similar to this, i.e. the quality disclaimer tag never being installed on the glove compartment door, etc ... .

Regards,
Dennis

Algon
10-04-2011, 08:14 PM
Yes, the factory burgandy cars when evaluated by Dan Jones before release ran a best 11.95 to 12.18 ET and 119.84 to 121.13 mph.

Even the DSO white cars with an automatic would turn low 12's, as delivered from DST. A stick car 11.90's. Blueprinting the engine, a Crane 300 Zip cam, and different tires in legal S/S trim would get a stick car in 11.70's or better.

This doesn't take into account long bars, 7,000 kit, and 4.86 gears. Granted, these are modifications.

Where did you read/hear mid 13's? Was that on seven cylinders?

Regards,
Dennis

Thanks, that's a bit more like it. Do have an example of such in print?

The mid 13's are examples printed in various vintage magazines where Thunderbolts were quoted for times. As such the September 64 HotRod (Big John-Willys cover) that provoked my question lists some low 13's from the white cars of Marv Yougman winning Stock Eliminator with a 13.23 and Clester Andrew winning S/S with a 13 flat at 115 but later losing in Stock Elimnator do to a foul (start?)....

My problem is that these cars awesome as they were are now more legend than reality. Every Ford guy with a half ass clone and hint of history talks about whipping Hemi Darts at half throttle. I'm more interested in real recorded performance as delivered or modified stating with a Low-Mid-High riser, Tunnel Port, M/T Hemi heads or SOHC 427,what trans and any possible details not lost to time.

Race Artist
10-04-2011, 09:56 PM
The Youngman car often ran in higher altitude, thin air where the cars usually ran slower than average times compared to the rest of the nation ... and not all class wins were full, on it, hard run wins ... some were bye runs or shut down early to save the car if the win was assured. One can't judge just by the listed results for a class win without knowing the circumstances.
Joel


Thanks, that's a bit more like it. Do have an example of such in print?

The mid 13's are examples printed in various vintage magazines where Thunderbolts were quoted for times. As such the September 64 HotRod (Big John-Willys cover) that provoked my question lists some low 13's from the white cars of Marv Yougman winning Stock Eliminator with a 13.23 and Clester Andrew winning S/S with a 13 flat at 115 but later losing in Stock Elimnator do to a foul (start?)....

My problem is that these cars awesome as they were are now more legend than reality. Every Ford guy with a half ass clone and hint of history talks about whipping Hemi Darts at half throttle. I'm more interested in real recorded performance as delivered or modified stating with a Low-Mid-High riser, Tunnel Port, M/T Hemi heads or SOHC 427,what trans and any possible details not lost to time.

Troublemaker427
10-05-2011, 07:28 AM
Many T-bolts were running into the 10's toward the end of 1964. Phil Bonner was the first door car to run into the 10's at Mason Dixon Dragway in his T-bolt.

The Hemi Darts you talk about were no ball of fires either when released from Hurst. There are many stories about how lousy the engines were when brand new. It took the racers working on the cars over time to make them fast. They were also built 4 years later then a T-bolt. I would hope they would be a bit faster with 4 more years of development time. After all it had a has a Hemi, right???:rolleyes:

Like Joel said don't believe everything you read in Hot Rod. There were lots of games played at the NHRA meets(kind of like it is now with the Drag Pac's and Cobra Jets). Pick up a copy of CARS Magazine and read the results from the 1964 Cecil County Factory Showdown or Eastern Drag News with the results of a match race at 75-80 Dragaway. There you will find out how fast these cars really went. Also remember when they ran SS they had 7" rock hard tires on non-preped tracks. These cars really shined on 10" tires in AFX or match race trim. Driving a 500+ horsepower car on 7" tires had to be interesting to say the least. Mr. Bonner said it was like driving on ice. Gas Ronda figured out the 7" tires though and won it all in NHRA in 1964.

I wouldn't question the reputation of these cars because of some guy who probably doesn't know what Dearborn Steel Tubing is or that a T-bolt had a FE engine (not a 460) says....




Thanks, that's a bit more like it. Do have an example of such in print?

The mid 13's are examples printed in various vintage magazines where Thunderbolts were quoted for times. As such the September 64 HotRod (Big John-Willys cover) that provoked my question lists some low 13's from the white cars of Marv Yougman winning Stock Eliminator with a 13.23 and Clester Andrew winning S/S with a 13 flat at 115 but later losing in Stock Elimnator do to a foul (start?)....

My problem is that these cars awesome as they were are now more legend than reality. Every Ford guy with a half ass clone and hint of history talks about whipping Hemi Darts at half throttle. I'm more interested in real recorded performance as delivered or modified stating with a Low-Mid-High riser, Tunnel Port, M/T Hemi heads or SOHC 427,what trans and any possible details not lost to time.

Dennis K.
10-05-2011, 09:29 AM
1448187

1448188

Thanks, that's a bit more like it. Do have an example of such in print?

The mid 13's are examples printed in various vintage magazines where Thunderbolts were quoted for times. As such the September 64 HotRod (Big John-Willys cover) that provoked my question lists some low 13's from the white cars of Marv Yougman winning Stock Eliminator with a 13.23 and Clester Andrew winning S/S with a 13 flat at 115 but later losing in Stock Elimnator do to a foul (start?)....

My problem is that these cars awesome as they were are now more legend than reality. Every Ford guy with a half ass clone and hint of history talks about whipping Hemi Darts at half throttle. I'm more interested in real recorded performance as delivered or modified stating with a Low-Mid-High riser, Tunnel Port, M/T Hemi heads or SOHC 427,what trans and any possible details not lost to time.


As Joel mentioned, that was at altitude. See attached. Times were quicker running in match race or FX trim, than legal S/S. Of course track conditions, location, altitude, and weather were also important factors.

Regards,
Dennis

64 Thunderbolt
10-05-2011, 02:32 PM
No, the burgundy cars had column mounted Sun 8,500 tachs. There may be at least one white car that did not have a dashboard mounted tach. Allegedly, there are no bracket holes, nor can the tach be seen in a circa 1964 picture.

There are a few anomilies similar to this, i.e. the quality disclaimer tag never being installed on the glove compartment door, etc ... .

Regards,
Dennis

Anybody have a picture they can post of what one of these tachs looked like & it mounted on the column?

Dennis K.
10-06-2011, 01:32 AM
Anybody have a picture they can post of what one of these tachs looked like & it mounted on the column?

Regards,
Dennis

64 Thunderbolt
10-06-2011, 09:34 AM
Regards,
Dennis

Dennis, thanks for the Picture.
When I got home last night I looked at an old Muscle car Magazine article that had an article about the Phil Bonner Thunderbolt & I saw that it had one mounted on the column. I'll have to compare photo's but I believe it is the same one. I do know that it's mounted on the column in that car as well.

Dennis, what were some of the other differences from the maroon cars & white cars?

apound
10-06-2011, 10:53 AM
Dennis,
I'm going to the auction Saturday just to see this car as well as the lightweight Galaxie.

Nice looking car. I recall selling a set of take apart race headers to one of the previous owners, had Brent Hajek deliver them for me at one of the Columbus Meets.

Car had a dash mounted tach in 1964. Someone must of filled the bracket holes in? Need to get the Apron Struts reinstalled, the shock towers will cave in if you don't. It certainly will be interesting what it will bring.

Regards,
Dennis

6t5frlane
10-06-2011, 11:42 AM
Dennis,
I'm going to the auction Saturday just to see this car as well as the lightweight Galaxie.

Alan, How goes the 65 restoration ?

apound
10-07-2011, 09:48 PM
Alan, How goes the 65 restoration ?
Geoff, About ready to put some color on it. I've been too long on this car so I'm ready to make some progress.

Dave Lyall
10-07-2011, 10:56 PM
Dennis:

While at Bob Ford I built a new '63 Ford 390 4brl for a customer who wanted to run it in the appropriate NHRA stock class, and it ran 13's on 7" tires. (It was fully blueprinted) That was at 3850 lbs. Your numbers on the production T-Bolts are accurate, and the as-delivered Hi-Riser engines were somewhat better than the assembly line 427's for tolerances, but nowhere near Les Ritchey level performance. Dave Lyall

Dennis K.
10-07-2011, 11:58 PM
Dennis,
I'm going to the auction Saturday just to see this car as well as the lightweight Galaxie.

Alan,

Hope that you will take some photos for us.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-08-2011, 12:50 AM
Dennis, thanks for the Picture.
When I got home last night I looked at an old Muscle car Magazine article that had an article about the Phil Bonner Thunderbolt & I saw that it had one mounted on the column. I'll have to compare photo's but I believe it is the same one. I do know that it's mounted on the column in that car as well.

Dennis, what were some of the other differences from the maroon cars & white cars?

Obviously the exterior color. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The burgundy cars were built from running production 289 HiPo cars, however the white cars were built from partially assembled vehicles with front bumper, hood, front fenders, radiator assy, engine assy, trans assy, driveshaft, fuel lines, exhaust sytem, interior, side windows, RH sun visor, RH windshield wiper, fresh air ducts, etc ... deleted. They were rollers and had brakes. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The burgandy cars had coat hooks, RH Sun Visor removed not deleted, column mounted 8,500 Sun tachs, Voltage Regulator mounted on LH Front Fender Apron instead of on the radiator support, exhaust header balance tube and mufflet inlet pipe connection fabricated differently, C3AE-6090-K High Riser Cyl Heads, rocker panel filler plates not deleted, no quality disclaimer plate installed on glove compartment door, no speedometer cable assy installed, Plexiglass front windshield (Brannan, Bob Ford, Tasca cars, possibly others), plexiglass back window with retaining clips, special RH Upper Control Arm Shaft to stagger front wheels (noted on Brannan, Bob Ford, Ed Martin, and Ronda cars, probably on the others), carpeting instead of rubber mat (Bob Ford, Ronda, Leal cars, possibly others), no 427 fender ornaments (Bob Ford car), Headlamp Assys modified differently for air duct clearance, Extended spindles (Bob Ford car), Greater center distance for mounting Apron Strut Supports to Cowl, 2x2 tubing for Transmission mount to rocker panel, Track Bar Crossmember and Driveshaft Loop fabricated differently, larger Battery Box, 1963 Fairlane Fiberglass Front Bumper with 1963 Fairlane Parking Lamp Assy (Brannan, Bob Ford, and Bob Ford Automatic car), Fuel Line routing slightly different. I'd imagine there are others. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Regards,<o:p></o:p>
Dennis<o:p></o:p>

apound
10-08-2011, 07:23 AM
Alan,

Hope that you will take some photos for us.

Regards,
Dennis

will do Dennis

Dennis K.
10-08-2011, 01:55 PM
Dennis:

While at Bob Ford I built a new '63 Ford 390 4brl for a customer who wanted to run it in the appropriate NHRA stock class, and it ran 13's on 7" tires. (It was fully blueprinted) That was at 3850 lbs. Your numbers on the production T-Bolts are accurate, and the as-delivered Hi-Riser engines were somewhat better than the assembly line 427's for tolerances, but nowhere near Les Ritchey level performance. Dave Lyall


Dave,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Was this a solid tappet 330 hp Police Interceptor or 300 hp hydraulic 390? I believe the hydraulic tappets ran out of steam at 4,500. I understand the 330 PI was a good combination for stock class.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The other thing I never understood were the 1964 427 T-Bolts and Ltwt Galaxies sold with an Lincoln HX automatic. Everyone I spoke to that bought one new were told by (a certain individual at) Ford they were the "hot ticket" and when they got the car they fell flat on their face. Complains I heard were either 1-2 shift tie up eventually burning the bands out, or they wouldn't shift into high under wide open throttle. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Most of the T-Bolts were quickly converted to a four speed. I think only a handful ran the automatic the whole season, i.e. - Bob Ford Automatic car, Dockery Ford and Friendly Ford on the East Coast , and Wendle Ford on the West. I believe, Les Ritchey also ran an automatic at times in his T-Bolt, perhaps he was tasked to do some development work for Ford? I realize high stall converters were in their infancy, I don't think a full manual main control existed back then, and of course the C6 was not yet released to production. Anybody ever figure out back in 1964 how to make an HX Cruise-O-Matic work?<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Regards,<o:p></o:p>
Dennis<o:p></o:p>

Algon
10-08-2011, 02:58 PM
Dennis K, Thanks for the attachments....... I also want to say thanks to all of those posting actual build facts about these cars.


While maybe not the historian on the subject some here claim to be I have a couple Fairlanes and I'd prefer a Thunderbolt to Hemi Dart. I also worked on a rather accurate replica about ten years ago.
In my experience over the years due to the similar size,purpose, and factory supported nature of these cars the two are commonly compaired. At times maybe a SuperDuty Tempest thrown in the conversation for good measure. This happens fequently, if the owner even has an actual 64 Fairlane it's normally a hardtop with modern wheels and of course it's a real Thunderbolt. If you were to talk Super Stock Galaxies, the Impalas and Catalinas regardless of the exact year tend to come up too now don't they.... Straining out the bull is what I'm getting at not bagging on one of my favorite cars of all time. The guy with the Galaxie and hardtop clone is a great example of what I'm talking about. Now maybe a guy like that can't tell an FE from a 460 or anything about DST but even my ten year old self had a jaded tale of Thunderbolts to tell not much unlike most of this thread.

The times I posted were from completely separate events from two different cars, in different parts of the country. You really think HotRod in 64 covered up the real times? Why because you think Chevy paid for more advertising or something ?:D While many contain errors and advertisements I've never seen the out and out bull in vintage print like we have today. Yes not every win is full on, shit happens, bad tracks, poor judgements in tuning, different drivers, maybe one driver got laid between rounds and the other didn't. Any run is still a reference to the range of what these cars did. Now with the high altitude that's on me for not paying attention to where the run was made.

If I was mistaken in thinking having some real unbiased numbers might be of interest to a thread on drag cars no big deal. I'm glad to continue digging this stuff up. I'm still the guy who asks "what's in it and what does it run" when everyone else is stuck on where the chalk marks are.

Dennis K.
10-09-2011, 08:50 AM
Here's a real one that's going on the Mecum auction.
http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963&utm_source=delivra&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=DA1011_S141.1


Checked the auction site and it sold.


<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Lot</st1:place> S141.1
1964 Ford Fairlane
427 CI, Automatic
<?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" /><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"><v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shapetype id=_x0000_t75 stroked="f" filled="f" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" o:preferrelative="t" o:spt="75" coordsize="21600,21600"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"></v:stroke><v:formulas><v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"></v:f><v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"></v:f><v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"></v:f></v:formulas><v:path o:connecttype="rect" gradientshapeok="t" o:extrusionok="f"></v:path><o:lock aspectratio="t" v:ext="edit"></o:lock></v:shapetype><v:shape style="WIDTH: 135pt; HEIGHT: 101.25pt" id=_x0000_i1025 alt="" href="http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963" o:button="t" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\Dennis\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip_ image001.jpg" o:href="http://www.mecum.com/auctions/DA1011/DA1011-117963/consign/DA1011-117963_consign.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape> (http://www.mecum.com/auctions/lot_detail.cfm?LOT_ID=DA1011-117963)
Sold Price: $245,000 <o:p></o:p>


Regards,
Dennis

apound
10-09-2011, 09:05 AM
The Thunderbolt at Mecum sold for $245,000.00 yesterday. Looked like a pretty nice car overall.

apound
10-09-2011, 09:11 AM
trouble attaching pictures.

apound
10-09-2011, 09:17 AM
more

Ray C's son
10-09-2011, 12:33 PM
Were the T-Bolts delivered with WAR cases? Did all the K code cars come with them?

Kevin

64 Thunderbolt
10-10-2011, 08:33 AM
Obviously the exterior color. ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The burgundy cars were built from running production 289 HiPo cars, however the white cars were built from partially assembled vehicles with front bumper, hood, front fenders, radiator assy, engine assy, trans assy, driveshaft, fuel lines, exhaust sytem, interior, side windows, RH sun visor, RH windshield wiper, fresh air ducts, etc ... deleted. They were rollers and had brakes. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
The burgandy cars had coat hooks, RH Sun Visor removed not deleted, column mounted 8,500 Sun tachs, Voltage Regulator mounted on LH Front Fender Apron instead of on the radiator support, exhaust header balance tube and mufflet inlet pipe connection fabricated differently, C3AE-6090-K High Riser Cyl Heads, rocker panel filler plates not deleted, no quality disclaimer plate installed on glove compartment door, no speedometer cable assy installed, Plexiglass front windshield (Brannan, Bob Ford, Tasca cars, possibly others), plexiglass back window with retaining clips, special RH Upper Control Arm Shaft to stagger front wheels (noted on Brannan, Bob Ford, Ed Martin, and Ronda cars, probably on the others), carpeting instead of rubber mat (Bob Ford, Ronda, Leal cars, possibly others), no 427 fender ornaments (Bob Ford car), Headlamp Assys modified differently for air duct clearance, Extended spindles (Bob Ford car), Greater center distance for mounting Apron Strut Supports to Cowl, 2x2 tubing for Transmission mount to rocker panel, Track Bar Crossmember and Driveshaft Loop fabricated differently, larger Battery Box, 1963 Fairlane Fiberglass Front Bumper with 1963 Fairlane Parking Lamp Assy (Brannan, Bob Ford, and Bob Ford Automatic car), Fuel Line routing slightly different. I'd imagine there are others. <O:p></O:p>
<O:p></O:p>
Regards,<O:p></O:p>
Dennis<O:p></O:p>

Dennis, Thanks for the help here.
So what your saying is some of the maroon cars had carpet instead of the rubber mat?

Dennis K.
10-10-2011, 09:16 AM
Were the T-Bolts delivered with WAR cases? Did all the K code cars come with them?

Kevin

The DSO parts lists shows C2AW-A, which I believe is correct. Back some time ago, I bought a Carrier Assy, 31T axles, and some other components from a second group car that the original owner pulled out shortly after he purchased the car and put away for years. It was a C2AW-A, which is a large bearing carrier, but I don't believe is Nodular Iron. I believe the C4AW-B is the first NI Carrier.

No idea what was used in the 289 HiPo cars. It was 28T axles, so it may not of used the large bearing carrier. Bob Mannel from the Fairlane Club should know.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-10-2011, 09:22 AM
Dennis, Thanks for the help here.
So what your saying is some of the maroon cars had carpet instead of the rubber mat?

There are some back in the day photos that show carpeting. The tunnel hump seam is clearly evident.

Regards,
Dennis

Tom S. in Tn.
10-10-2011, 09:42 AM
Dennis,
I'm going to the auction Saturday just to see this car as well as the lightweight Galaxie.

A couple questions; Was the Fairlane an authentic T'Bolt, and what did the light weight bring?
A $245K Thunderbolt is looking better than Bank of America right now.
Tom S. in Tn.

apound
10-10-2011, 04:05 PM
I thought the lightweight Galaxie bid to $170K and didn't sell but Mecum's website says it sold for 200K. That was late in the day and they had free beer so it's possible I was mistaken.

Ray C's son
10-10-2011, 04:28 PM
I thought the lightweight Galaxie bid to $170K and didn't sell but Mecum's website says it sold for 200K. That was late in the day and they had free beer so it's possible I was mistaken.

No, you're right. It was a "and the bid continues" car. They must have made a deal later on. So you were fine and could've had a few more, no problem.


I've never seen ram air like on that Galaxie, is that a Ford item? I've only ever seen them with flexible tubing.


Kevin

Dennis K.
10-10-2011, 06:43 PM
A couple questions; Was the Fairlane an authentic T'Bolt, and what did the light weight bring?
A $245K Thunderbolt is looking better than Bank of America right now.
Tom S. in Tn.

Yes, it's a real automatic car. I think it was originally from a dealer in TX.

Regards,
Dennis

tommyd
10-10-2011, 06:49 PM
Yes, it's a real automatic car. I think it was originally from a dealer in TX.

Regards,
Dennis
Dennis, is that the same car once owned by Ray Skillman? Thanks for all the solid info you post on here.Tom.

Dennis K.
10-10-2011, 06:50 PM
No, you're right. It was a "and the bid continues" car. They must have made a deal later on. So you were fine and could've had a few more, no problem.


I've never seen ram air like on that Galaxie, is that a Ford item? I've only ever seen them with flexible tubing.


Kevin

The fiberglass ducts were Ford. They are very rare. What happened were the original fiberglass ducts manufactured did not fit, for the interim Wiremold flex tube was substituted, and Ford was going to campaign the ducts at a later date. It appears they never did. Anyone I know that has an original set, they came from the Holman Moody warehouse.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-10-2011, 07:57 PM
Dennis, is that the same car once owned by Ray Skillman? Thanks for all the solid info you post on here.Tom.

Yes, former Don McMillian Ford, Houston TX car.

Regards,
Dennis

Ray C's son
10-10-2011, 08:03 PM
Thanks Dennis. I thought I had seen almost all of the rare Ford stuff that was out there at the PFCA meets in Columbus, but never knew those existed. We always set up early Friday morning so we could go look at everyone's stuff before it was gone. Even after all these years it seems the more I learn the less I know. Great stuff.

I knew the T-bolts came out before the NI cases and always assumed they used WAR cases in them. Did they put the same gear in all the cars, automatic and 4 speed, or did the customer get to spec it?

Kevin

Tom S. in Tn.
10-11-2011, 06:58 AM
I thought the lightweight Galaxie bid to $170K and didn't sell but Mecum's website says it sold for 200K. That was late in the day and they had free beer so it's possible I was mistaken.

Yes, it's a real automatic car. I think it was originally from a dealer in TX.

Regards,
Dennis

Yes, former Don McMillian Ford, Houston TX car.

Regards,
Dennis


Thank you kindly; Tom S.

Dennis K.
10-12-2011, 09:07 AM
Thanks Dennis. I thought I had seen almost all of the rare Ford stuff that was out there at the PFCA meets in Columbus, but never knew those existed. We always set up early Friday morning so we could go look at everyone's stuff before it was gone. Even after all these years it seems the more I learn the less I know. Great stuff.

I knew the T-bolts came out before the NI cases and always assumed they used WAR cases in them. Did they put the same gear in all the cars, automatic and 4 speed, or did the customer get to spec it?

Kevin

The white T-Bolts, 4.57 stick or automatic. The 1964 Ltwt Galaxies, 4.71 automatic and 4.57 stick. Many owners changed the ratios, depending on tires, 7,000 kit, etc ... , upgrading to a 4.86 ratio. I've run either a 5.14 or 4.86 in mine.

Regards,
Dennis

64 Thunderbolt
10-13-2011, 12:04 PM
Guys , I just lucked across some info I've been looking for.
I need to find out if the known where abouts of car #88 is?
This was the car my dad drove. It was out of Emrhae Ford & was owned & tuned by Maxey Gentry. The known delivery date was 4/27/64. The last known time it was seen was on EBay in 2004.
This would mean a LOT to me to locate this car!
Can anybody help me here?
I have a Vin if that helps.

vintagegasser
10-13-2011, 02:49 PM
Dennis, the real problem I have with some of these current day auctions is that the public is not getting the whole truth about some of these early factory lightweight cars. The 1964 Galaxie in question that just sold was 1 of 52, 1/2 were 4 speed the others automatics, when delivered only the hood was fiberglass not the doors, fenders or trunk lid as stated in the ad. Granted you could go out and buy those parts from the dealer and add them on but that's not what the car was originally set up to run as.

Dave Lyall
10-13-2011, 06:53 PM
Dennis & Kevin:

Bob Ford was issued the Fiberglass inlet air ducts about the time we recieved our first Hi-Riser Engine to test. (about Mid-season 1963) Eventually we had to send the Hi-Riser back, but we kept the ducts and ran them whenever we could. Even on the Low-Riser engine they were an instant 2 MPH, and more if you played with the jetting. They also reduced ET's about .1 - .15 or more. Dave

Kentuckian
10-13-2011, 07:11 PM
Anyone know any history on the '64 lightweight Galaxie that was auctioned off at Dallas?

Dennis K.
10-13-2011, 08:35 PM
Anyone know any history on the '64 lightweight Galaxie that was auctioned off at Dallas?

From looking at the auction photos and comparing them, I think this was originally a four speed car given to Phil Bonner, that recently was up in WA somewhere. I don't know if Phil actually raced it in the day, but he was given at least two of them, one stick and one automatic car, that he flipped for around $2500 ea. The automatic car he sold to Jr Quarles, no idea who bought the stick car.

It has those ultra rare fiberglass air ducts. I've seen maybe only six sets of those. They were suppose to install them on all 50 cars, but they didn't fit, so Wiremold tube was used instead. Anyone that I knew that had an orignal set of fiberglass ducts for a 1964 Ltwt Galaxie bought them out of the Holman Moody warehouse.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-13-2011, 08:55 PM
Dennis, the real problem I have with some of these current day auctions is that the public is not getting the whole truth about some of these early factory lightweight cars. The 1964 Galaxie in question that just sold was 1 of 52, 1/2 were 4 speed the others automatics, when delivered only the hood was fiberglass not the doors, fenders or trunk lid as stated in the ad. Granted you could go out and buy those parts from the dealer and add them on but that's not what the car was originally set up to run as.

Yes, I noted the same errors re fiberglass in the auction posting. However, there is an information disclaimer at the bottom of the posting. Whether it is a restored factory race car or some used parts at a swap meet. It is Buyer Beware! Anyone serious would of inspected the vehicle in advance and if not knowledgeable in the subject matter, had someone with them that is.

I attended a similar auction last year where a "Thunderbolt" was on the block. The only thing original was the door tag. The car was a rebody, and even had a reproduction aluminum front bumper. Matter of fact it did not even have the official VIN stamped on the drivers side fener apron flange. If I recall it sold for $275,000. For the average person, that is a lot of $. However, cost is relative. Say to a billionaire, $275,000 perhaps is only pocket change.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-13-2011, 10:10 PM
Dennis & Kevin:

Bob Ford was issued the Fiberglass inlet air ducts about the time we recieved our first Hi-Riser Engine to test. (about Mid-season 1963) Eventually we had to send the Hi-Riser back, but we kept the ducts and ran them whenever we could. Even on the Low-Riser engine they were an instant 2 MPH, and more if you played with the jetting. They also reduced ET's about .1 - .15 or more. Dave

Dave,

You have a good memory, see attached. What did they use for an airbox to connect the ducts to the carbs? Being the High Riser had a greater center distance between the carbs, the Low Riser and High Riser air boxes would be different. Did you have air tubes on both your yellow car and the black engineering Bob Ford 1963 Lightweight Galaxies? Were the air tubes legal for S/S or just A/FX and match race?

Regards,
Dennis

gnichols
10-14-2011, 09:30 PM
Gang,
I went to the Lake Mirror Classic show today in Lakeland, FL and saw this car. I have no history on this car, but thought some of you might enjoy seeing the pix. Sorry the car was in a lousy location for photos. If you are a fan, it will also be at the show Sat / Sun. I can't make it back those days, busy at the NSRA show in Tampa. Later, Gary

Troublemaker427
10-15-2011, 07:11 AM
The Falcon belongs to my friend Jim Cagle. It is a clone/tribute to the original Phil Bonner DST built "Frog". Jim bought the original car from Phil in 1965 but has been able to to find it after looking for it in recent years. This car is very close to the original car.
Jim will be bringing this car to the FE Get Together on 10/29/11 to be held at Cecil County Dragway. Phil Bonner raced the original car at Cecil Co. many times and Jim plans on recreating this in two weeks.

Not sure where you got "one of two Thunderbolt prototypes" from. The original Bonner Falcon was built after the Thunderbolts were released and being raced. I also know Jim does not represent the car as a prototype or as the original car....

There were two DST Falcons built in 1964, Brannan and Bonner's. Both were built after the T-bolts were released.

Thanks for the photos.

Kentuckian
10-15-2011, 08:17 AM
Phil Bonner's AFX Falcon

http://i51.tinypic.com/16kupmu.jpg

gnichols
10-15-2011, 01:04 PM
The Falcon belongs to my friend Jim Cagle. It is a clone/tribute to the original Phil Bonner DST built "Frog". Jim bought the original car from Phil in 1965 but has been able to to find it after looking for it in recent years. This car is very close to the original car.
Jim will be bringing this car to the FE Get Together on 10/29/11 to be held at Cecil County Dragway. Phil Bonner raced the original car at Cecil Co. many times and Jim plans on recreating this in two weeks.

Not sure where you got "one of two Thunderbolt prototypes" from. The original Bonner Falcon was built after the Thunderbolts were released and being raced. I also know Jim does not represent the car as a prototype or as the original car....

There were two DST Falcons built in 1964, Brannan and Bonner's. Both were built after the T-bolts were released.

Thanks for the photos.

Sorry for the miss-info... I didn't mean to mislead anyone, I was just repeating what I thought I heard the MC say. I'll do a deletion on my first post. Gary

Troublemaker427
10-15-2011, 04:07 PM
Sorry for the miss-info... I didn't mean to misslead anyone, I was just repeating what I thought I heard the MC say. I'll do a deletion on my first post. Gary
No problem, sounds like another expert behind a microphone spreading misinformation....LOL It would be nice if the MC would have talked to Jim before he started talking...

spiertb
10-15-2011, 09:52 PM
Guys , I just lucked across some info I've been looking for.
I need to find out if the known where abouts of car #88 is?
This was the car my dad drove. It was out of Emrhae Ford & was owned & tuned by Maxey Gentry. The known delivery date was 4/27/64. The last known time it was seen was on EBay in 2004.
This would mean a LOT to me to locate this car!
Can anybody help me here?
I have a Vin if that helps.
David; Do you have any pictures from when your Dad drove it? Thanks. Syl

Dave Lyall
10-15-2011, 11:07 PM
I remember the fiberglass tubes better that the airbox. However, if I remember correctly, it was a oval-shaped structure that was captured between the production cast aluminum low riser air cleaner top and bottom, and which functioned the same as the T-Bolt airbox. I remember we did run the tubes on the Hi-Riser, but do not remember specifically how we attached them to the carburetors. Typically in such cases, either the needed parts to make a kit would come as a kit assembly, and in some cases where we needed something that did not come from the Engineering Garage Parts Crib, I would run up the street and see "Hammer" who would quickly gin-up something trick. Hammer was such an integral part of my super stock racing career, his contribution cannot be overstated. Godspeed Hammer. As a tickler, (for you old-timers) I attached a picture of some early such help. We only ran one fiber glass tube on the '63's and both of the Bob Ford cars ran them. The tubes were not legal in NHRA. On the yellow car, the tube was worth 2 mph and a good .1 of a second, maybe more, in back to back runs on the low riser, and without the grill opened up to un-shroud the tube inlet. We switched the yellow car back to a Low-Riser before Indy, and I did run the tubes a couple of times at Detroit Dragway with the Low-Riser in S/S eliminations. (But not at Indy) If I was cheating, I was the least of the cheaters, as in later years after running NOS in Pro 5.0 and recognizing the effects it had on tuning, exhaust smoke, header temperature and flame out the headers, I now know for sure in 1963 I ran against cars in S/S at Detroit who were using NOS. After Indy, the yellow car was sold, and I took over the black car, built new suspension and traction bars (they are still on the car today) a new Hi-Riser with a special prototype camshaft (the first actually blue-printed Hi-Riser we ran in ’63) and ran 11.70's at Detroit in Match Race trim. Jerry Harvey drove the car the next year. Dave Lyall

Dave Lyall
10-15-2011, 11:23 PM
Bonner's car pictured above was the inspiration for the '65 AFX Falcon I built. I approached Al Turner about a Comet, but as I was still a Ford employee at that time, he could not help me, and although Charlie Gray said basically the same thing, we either had enough relationship from the '63 - '64 season, or he recognized my determination and commitment, or both, that he did provide essential help on my Falcon project. After all, he was the one who got me so fired up constantly relating Bonner's newest achievement every Monday morning, I would not be denied. Dave Lyall

Dennis K.
10-16-2011, 09:58 AM
Phil Bonner's AFX Falcon

http://i51.tinypic.com/16kupmu.jpg


Here are photos of the Falcon when owned by Jim Cagle taken at NASCAR Winter drags Deland FL and then when owned by Joe Johnson. The Cagle photo is mine and the Johnson photo isn't mine.

The original car has never been located nor its disposition. I've heard different stories, one that it went to Chicago and was street raced, New York and eventually crashed street racing, and another that it was still in FL. It would be a neat car to have.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-16-2011, 10:45 AM
Guys , I just lucked across some info I've been looking for.
I need to find out if the known where abouts of car #88 is?
This was the car my dad drove. It was out of Emrhae Ford & was owned & tuned by Maxey Gentry. The known delivery date was 4/27/64. The last known time it was seen was on EBay in 2004.
This would mean a LOT to me to locate this car!
Can anybody help me here?
I have a Vin if that helps.

David,

I recall you posted on this thread back last Feb searching for a Thunderbolt, ref. post #2331. How was it determined this was the Emrhae Ford car? Is Maxey Gentry still around?

Re the AFX Comet in 1965 your dad drove, what's the history on this car? Was it a 64 or 65 car, dealership/sponsor? There's been a lot of interest on another thread of documenting the 64/65 FX Comets.

The crash at Richmond Dragway in 1965, what car was your dad driving? Was it the T-Bolt, AFX Comet or something else, and do you recall the date? I'd like to look through my Drag News's to see if it was mentioned. DN seemed to cover that area pretty well.

Regards,
Dennis

Dennis K.
10-16-2011, 11:11 AM
Dennis:
I remember the fiberglass tubes better that the airbox. However, if I remember correctly, it was a oval-shaped structure that was captured between the production cast aluminum low riser air cleaner top and bottom. I remember we did run the tubes on the Hi-Riser, but do not remember specifically how we attached them to the carburetors. Typically in such cases, either the needed parts to make a kit would come as a kit assembly, and in some cases where we needed something that did not come from the Engineering Garage Parts Crib, I would run up the street and see "Hammer" who would quickly gin-up something trick. Hammer was such an integral part of my super stock racing career, his contribution can not be overstated. Godspeed Hammer. <O:p

As a tickler, (for you old-timers) I attached a picture of some early such help.
<O:p
Dave Lyall


Just curious how the air boxes were configured. On my blue T-Bolt, with the 8V D intake I ran the Airbox, but rarely the hoses. I don't think it mattered if you ran the tubes or not, the air would get in there and I recall the car ET'd the same. Trevarrow's T-Bolt Too car was the same way, he seldom if ever ran his air box. When I changed intakes to a single plane Tunnel Wedge welded to a High Riser base, the carb center distance was less than the HR, and couldn't run the t-Bolt air box, so I tried two bonnets, then finally took them off too. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
There has been some discussion the cast aluminum air boxes created turbulance the way the two inlet ducts entered, then with the air having to make two 90 deg turns to go down the carb inlets. I've seen one box that had sheet metal deflectors installed, but I assume that was some racer's idea and not a Ford thing. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
On Brannan's S/S 824 63 Galaxie when found it had only one large fiberglass air duct and that is how the car was restored. I assume that is how Dick ran that car. The airbox was a production aluminum 8V top and bottom with a sheet metal fabrication to replace the air cleaner element and with only one inlet to connect the duct to.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Regards,<o:p></o:p>
Dennis <o:p></o:p>

Ray C's son
10-16-2011, 11:56 AM
Bonner's car pictured above was the inspiration for the '65 AFX Falcon I built. I approached Al Turner about a Comet, but as I was still a Ford employee at that time, he could not help me, and although Charlie Gray said basically the same thing, we either had enough relationship from the '63 - '64 season, or he recognized my determination and commitment, or both, that he did provide essential help on my Falcon project. After all, he was the one who got me so fired up constantly relating Bonner's newest achievement every Monday morning, I would not be denied. Dave Lyall

Dave,
Care to expand on Charlie Gray's motivational tactics? I'm sure it's a good story.

Kevin

64 Thunderbolt
10-16-2011, 04:27 PM
David,

I recall you posted on this thread back last Feb searching for a Thunderbolt, ref. post #2331. How was it determined this was the Emrhae Ford car? Is Maxey Gentry still around?

Re the AFX Comet in 1965 your dad drove, what's the history on this car? Was it a 64 or 65 car, dealership/sponsor? There's been a lot of interest on another thread of documenting the 64/65 FX Comets.

The crash at Richmond Dragway in 1965, what car was your dad driving? Was it the T-Bolt, AFX Comet or something else, and do you recall the date? I'd like to look through my Drag News's to see if it was mentioned. DN seemed to cover that area pretty well.

Regards,
Dennis

Yes, Maxey is still around & that's one of the factors of figuring out which car it was.
As far as the AFX Comet he drove, it was totaled in 65 in that wreck at Richmond Dragway. He was driving it & it almost killed him. He never really drove again after that. That's what he was driving in the wreck. As far as a date ,no, with Dad's memory since the stroke it's been hard to get certain things out of him.
I'm also trying to find out when he got rid of the Thunderbolt & where it went & when he got the Comet.
He went through a divorce after he stopped racing & his ex wife threw everything away. We used to have some pictures but they got lost in a move.
I have made some contacts that might have some pictures from tracks he raced in that area & hope soon to have some.

David; Do you have any pictures from when your Dad drove it? Thanks. Syl

Dave Lyall
10-16-2011, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=Ray C's son;7052006]Dave,
Care to expand on Charlie Gray's motivational tactics? I'm sure it's a good story.

Kevin

Kevin:

The short version is that Charley Gray was a great leader and a good motivator. He talked just enough to let you know what results he expected, and yet enough to get you to think thoroughly about what you were doing, and look at things in new ways. He wanted you to see the trees and not just the forest. He made it sound like what Bonner was doing was nothing special, and anybody could do it if they would just make the effort. The rest is history. Dave Lyall

Dennis K.
10-17-2011, 10:58 AM
Yes, Maxey is still around & that's one of the factors of figuring out which car it was.
As far as the AFX Comet he drove, it was totaled in 65 in that wreck at Richmond Dragway. He was driving it & it almost killed him. He never really drove again after that. That's what he was driving in the wreck. As far as a date ,no, with Dad's memory since the stroke it's been hard to get certain things out of him.
I'm also trying to find out when he got rid of the Thunderbolt & where it went & when he got the Comet.
He went through a divorce after he stopped racing & his ex wife threw everything away. We used to have some pictures but they got lost in a move.
I have made some contacts that might have some pictures from tracks he raced in that area & hope soon to have some.

Re AFX Comet, what year of Comet was it, and any other details, such as dealer, sponsor, owner, color, etc ... ? What does Maxey Gentry recall about the Comet and/or the T-Bolt. Does Maxey have any photos, documentation, recall dates, etc ... on either of the cars? Searching through copies of Eastern Drag News and Drag News, any dates would be helpful.

Anyone else recall this wreck at Richmond Dragway?

Regards,
Dennis

64 Thunderbolt
10-17-2011, 12:02 PM
Re AFX Comet, what year of Comet was it, and any other details, such as dealer, sponsor, owner, color, etc ... ? What does Maxey Gentry recall about the Comet and/or the T-Bolt. Does Maxey have any photos, documentation, recall dates, etc ... on either of the cars? Searching through copies of Eastern Drag News and Drag News, any dates would be helpful.

Anyone else recall this wreck at Richmond Dragway?

Regards,
Dennis

The wreck with the Comet was in mid 65 or so. Dad had went out on his own & bought the car, at the time him & Maxey had split ways. The car had no sponsorship & was just plain white.
He drive the Thunderbolt from about April 64 through early 65 until he got his own ride.
Maxey wasn't much on pictures so he doesn't have anything either.

Dennis K.
10-18-2011, 08:46 AM
The wreck with the Comet was in mid 65 or so. Dad had went out on his own & bought the car, at the time him & Maxey had split ways. The car had no sponsorship & was just plain white.
He drive the Thunderbolt from about April 64 through early 65 until he got his own ride.
Maxey wasn't much on pictures so he doesn't have anything either.


Trying to understand this. What year and exterior color was the AFX Comet?

Regards,
Dennis

64 Thunderbolt
10-18-2011, 09:01 AM
Trying to understand this. What year and exterior color was the AFX Comet?

Regards,
Dennis

The Comet was a 65 & was all white with nothing on it.

LennyFreebern
10-18-2011, 09:26 PM
Bender Ford T-Bolt Gigi

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m58/predfan2001/scan00012-1.jpg
Here's a much better pic of 'GIGI'- the Bender Ford Tbolt from Syracuse, NY. The original driver was Kenny Essex.

LennyFreebern
10-18-2011, 09:38 PM
The Mike Gray Mr. Nasty III car or was there another Reynolds car?

And speaking of the Mike Gray car, is this the same Mr. Nasty III? The rear wheelwell configuration looks to be about the same as the red/white/blue car.
http://bamaplates.com/images/racing/unknown/tbolt002c.jpg


Thanks,
Deron
Here's a better pic of the Reynolds Ford Tbolt from Syracuse, Ny driven by Mike Gray. Original pic as raced.

LennyFreebern
10-18-2011, 09:47 PM
This was the car that John Paradise from Super Ford Magazine owned and used to do the series of restoration articles back in the early 80's. It was pretty much put back to "as delivered" condition with an HX automatic, etc ... .

John eventually sold the car and it changed hands numerous times after that. The last I knew the car was on the East coast.

Regards,
Dennis

Here's an original as raced pic of the Collins Motor Sales tbolt driven by Morris Lee.

LennyFreebern
10-19-2011, 02:52 PM
Here's a much better pic of 'GIGI'- the Bender Ford Tbolt from Syracuse, NY. The original driver was Kenny Essex.

Here's another pic of the Willis, Reynolds, and Bender Ford Tbolts together in the staging lane at E.S.T.A. (Eastern Strip & Track Association) Safety Park in Cicero, NY.

Len

tommyd
10-19-2011, 03:17 PM
Lenny, really nice pics and thanks for posting them. Got any more?

Troublemaker427
10-19-2011, 05:36 PM
Here's another pic of the Willis, Reynolds, and Bender Ford Tbolts together in the staging lane at E.S.T.A. (Eastern Strip & Track Association) Safety Park in Cicero, NY.

Len
Len,
Great shots, thanks very much for posting them. There appears to be a third T-bolt at the front of the line in this shot. Any idea who it may be?

Thanks again for injecting some life back into this thread with the awesome photos!!

tommyd
10-19-2011, 05:42 PM
I thought he was saying it was the Willis Ford car?

tommyd
10-19-2011, 05:52 PM
Here's an original as raced pic of the Collins Motor Sales tbolt driven by Morris Lee.
That is a BAD pic. Like stepping back in time!

LennyFreebern
10-19-2011, 06:07 PM
Len,
Great shots, thanks very much for posting them. There appears to be a third T-bolt at the front of the line in this shot. Any idea who it may be?

Thanks again for injecting some life back into this thread with the awesome photos!!
As I said, the Willis car, the Reynolds car, and the Bender Ford GIGI car all in a row.

Len

Troublemaker427
10-20-2011, 06:09 AM
As I said, the Willis car, the Reynolds car, and the Bender Ford GIGI car all in a row.

Len
Oops, sorry. Reading comprehension was not great there on my part...:rolleyes:

Kentuckian
10-20-2011, 09:45 AM
Great pictures Len! Please continue posting more. It's good to see Thunderbolts in their natural habitat.