Help, car just quit on me....

[SwitchBlade327]

rode down to the store to put some gas in the car for the cruise in tomorrow, and right when I was abotu to pull in the lights went out and the engine died...got it pulled home but it's too dark to piddle aroudn in the wiring so I'm trying to figure out exactly what I need to check (god i hate wiring). I'm not getting power to anything, no lights, starters not turning, not a damn thing. So where do I need to start? I was looking forward to taking this boat out for awhile and this shit happens...

[Fat Hack]

You should have a main feed wire...often it will piggyback on your starter solenoid with the large battery cable. Other applications feed it through a relay or something.

(When I laid out the wiring for my car, I drew main power from two different sources to eliminate possible problems down the road).

Check the wire(s) coming off of the stud on the starter or solenoid that the battery cable connects to.

[choprods]

check cables both over then start at the solenoid where positive cable hooks up...then check solenoid itself....then next try the main harness plug-in at the firewall-under hood......... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif and check to see if you have a ground strap from engine to body/frame!

[jdubbya]

First thing I would check, would be the battery terminals and connections. Check the ground cable, where it bolts to the engine etc. Sounds to me that it is a bad connection somewhere. Just my 3 cents -Joe

[TheRev]

dead cell in the battery?main fuse?

[SwitchBlade327]

I checked those to make sure they were still tight on the solenoid when I was sitting at the store, but I couldnt' really keep following the wires to check em since I didn't have a good light source. I gotta figure thi sout though since I dont' live in the greatest neighborhood, and I can't roll my window up since theres no power, I won't be able to sleep tonight if I have to leave it next to the street(already took the hubcaps off of it...).

This is a sloppily installed EZ wire harness FYI, the battery is brand new and reading fine along witht he connections to it, it's ground is good as well.

[Fat Hack]

You got an alternator or generator?

Check the thick (battery) wire going to it. It could be disconnected, dirty, loose or shorted.

Just another idea!

[SwitchBlade327]

it's got an alternator, it had had a wire going from the battery to it across the motor when i got the car, I just left it there, but I rerouted it the other day so it wouldn't be layin' across the engine, I'll check the connections and make sure something didnt' come loose.

[Fat Hack]

Sounds like a good bet, that being the last wire you messed with! Check it over carefully from end to end and I bet you'll find your problem!

[SwitchBlade327]

well I just went abck out there to try to look around, but it's too damn dark to see anything and my pos flashlight aint' cuttin' it...it's probaly going to have to wait until in the morning....

[HOTRODPRIMER]

If everthing was working and it just quit ,,,,,It sounds like you lost your ground,,,,,,,,,,are they new cables? if they are old take both of them loose and scrape the terminals with your pocket knife and clean the post,,,check your ground bolt to the block and your ground strap.

Check your fuses,,,,,,,HRP


Good luck!

[kitkat]

My chevy (Fleetline) did something similar. Turned out to be the old as hell chewed up wire to the ignition. No circuit, no nothin. It was intermittent and a pain to track down. Motivated me to rewire though!

[RileyRacing]

Actually the same thing happened to me with my (now) wife, on one of our first dates...

I took her to Wiards Orchards for a "haunted house" they had. It used to be kinda out in the sticks, and I know my way round the back roads real good. So we leave the haunted house (in my 93 Chevy truck, this was October 96). I figgered I'd have some fun with her, so we came up to a 4 way stop and I stopped, then slipped the clutch so the truck stalled. I gave her that "uh oh" look and said, "oh darn, my truck has died, right here in the middle of nowhere. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" in my best pimp daddy voice. She looked at me and said "ha ha, get us out of here, like NOW!". Kinda felt like Falfa when he picked up Laurie. So I pushed in the clutch and hit the starter and NOTHING. For real this time. She is getting less and less amused with my shenanigans... the "gonna get some" meter sunk below zero. So, of course, I don't have a flashlight, but I smoked. So I get out, pop the hood and look around with my zippo. Smart, huh. I can't see a damn thing. So I start rolling up newspaper and torching it. Still nothing. Round about this time, a dude rolls up that Vanessa swears is the dude from "adventures in babysitting", a one eyed, scary, built truck driver dude, who has a flash light. He offers to jump the truck to see if it'll go. So we hook up, I hit the key and it starts. That side of Ypsilanti about 20 miles from where I grew up, and I didn't stop my truck once coming home! Got up the next morning, and looked and the battery cable (ground side) was GONE!!! As in "not there at all"!!! I never saw one fall off before, but it wasn't there...

Exact same symptoms. It started just fine, everything electrical worked, just not enuff power for the ignition. Wierd. You shoulda seen the little braided cable the next morning tho... kinda crisp. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Jay

[Rocky]

My winter beater 71 ElCamino did the same thing once. No power anywhere except the big battery cables. It was dark and raining like hell. I caught a ride home with a friend and returned the next morning to find the feed wire [10 gauge] for the entire car's body had finally burned in half. None of the electrical components were getting current except the starter and there was no current to it's solenoid, the fuse panel or the ignition switch. Replaced the wire and everything worked again.

[shoebox72]

My 51 Chevy did the same thing a few weeks ago at a traffic light. I was able to let it roll backwards & into a nearby parking lot. With the test light I always keep in the trunk found out the quick disconnect for the battery,the kind with a green knobs they sell at the cheap tool vendors at swapmeets, was shot. I took it off & hooked the battery up without it and I was back on the road in less than 10 minuites.

Not to break your balls but you should seriously get a test light & a volt/ohm meter, learn to use them & develope some basic troubleshooting skills. It's really not that difficult once you understand how different systems function.

Billy

[SwitchBlade327]

I actually have a multimeter that has stayed in the car for about 2 months now for situations such as this, it was just too damn dark to see anything with a flashlight that only works if you hold it at a certain angle. I check out the battery ground (to the block) and it seemed to be fine or at least secure, the cables and battery are only a little over a week old as well. Once I have some daylight hopefully it won't be that big of a deal, the cruise in isnt' until noon so I should have more than enough time to figure it out. I appreciate all the input.

[choprods]

sounds more like the "fuseable link" is burnt into-[small section of wire between 10 ga end and start solenoid battery cable connection.

[SwitchBlade327]

hmmm...didnt' think about that. I'm not even sure if theres one of those on there actually....I hope there is...

[SwitchBlade327]

ok I just went out and fucked with it for a minute, and I'm not getting any power the "batt" terminal on the ignition switch, and the hot wire going to the starter is reading ok in the engine compartment. The one wire I spoke of earlier going from the battery to the Alternator seems to be fine, but It's hard to tell with no juice going through it. Where does the juice for the ignition switch come from? maybe I just need to run a couple of new wires or something, I need this damn thing to work though, arg...

[Fat Hack]

Check for power at the battery wire on your alternator. That one should be hot all the time. If you don't have power there, follow the wire back to find out where the circuit is broken.

On my car, power to the ignition switch comes from a heavy wire piggybacked to the starter, and the battery wire off of the alternator will terminate there also.

You gotta start at one end of the circuit and methodically work your way to the other checking for breaks. If you start at the battery and work your way towards your other components using a test light or multimeter, you'll find out where juice ceases to flow, and can then isolate the cause.

[SwitchBlade327]

ok, i just ran a wire from teh battery to the ignition and everythign worked when i did that, all the wires from the starter appeared fine, I'll go check the alternator wires right now. I'm glad theres some people on here this early in the morning, never had questions this time of day before.

[Fat Hack]

Okay, then...you gotta figure out what happened to the original feed wire to your ignition switch to find out what caused this. I had a Chevelle do the same thing when the radio shorted out. Everything went dead!

I walked home, got my test light, a screwdriver, and a length of wire with alligator clips on each end. Went back to the car, confirmed that the battery was still good with the test light, then hook one clip to the positive battery cable, and the other end to the positive side of the coil. Used the screwdriver to jump the terminals on the starter and drove the car home!

(Later that day I traded it to a buddy for a tricked out Pinto! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

[SwitchBlade327]

the alternator power wire should be the hot one right? I traced it all the way back to the fuse panel and the multimeter just read 0.01 the whole way back...god I hate this stuff....

[Fat Hack]

The thick wire on the alternator should be hot all the time, yeah.

I can't tell without looking, but it sounds like the alternator is hooked directly into your fusebox to supply power to the car? I wouldn't do it that way, but that's just ME!

Since you recently reworked that alternator wire...where was it run before?

[SwitchBlade327]

that's not the wire I reworked, when i got the car none of the wiring worked, so the guy had ran a wire from the battery tot he alternator so it would charge. I just left the wire alone, just rerouted it so it wasn't laying across the intake. As far as hwo the alternator is wired up, we just did thing as instructions told us to do so, wiring is not my thing though so I'm not gonna say everything is right (cos I know as soon as I say that the whole car would burn down or something), but it's been working fine for the most part for the past few months... How should the alternator be hooked up? I need to get this taken car of in the next hour and a half if I'm gonna make it out to the cruise....Would it hurt anything to run the car by running the ignition power straight off the battery until I get the real problem worked out? or would that screw something else up...

[Fat Hack]

If you have points, running on a full 12 volts will cook the coil over an extended period of time, your lead to the positive side of the coil from the switch has resistence in it to step the voltage down some during normal running.

(However, there is usually also a 'hot' lead run to the coil from the starter solenoid to provide full power WHILE CRANKING ONLY to insure quick, easy starts.)

If you run a hot wire from the battery to the battery terminal on your ignition switch and the car will start and run that way, you should be okay as far as the coil goes...because you'll be using the car's resistance wire.

Is your alternator internally or externally regulated?

[SwitchBlade327]

uh. I think it's internal but I'm not positive, how do i tell?

[Fat Hack]

Internally regulated factory GM alternators have the one thick wire that goes to the back of the alternator, then a plug with two smaller wires going into the case on the outside.

One of those two smaller wires is your "exciter" wire, run to keyed power, and the other is for your charge light, if so equipped.

An externally regulated alternator has a regulator somehwere under the hood...it'll look like a small rectangular metal box with a few wires going to it...just don't confuse it with your horn relay!

[SwitchBlade327]

i guess it has to be internal since there no box any of the wires go to. I'm lost.

[Fat Hack]

Aggghcck! Wish I could see what ya got there...I actually LIKE wiring and electrical work...but it's SO hard to do from several states away!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

(You'll have to seek help elsewhere on that stereo thing...beyond self-contained in-dash units, I don't mess with 'em myself...but it sounds like you have it hooked up right!)

You have to find out why there's no power going to your alternator...a wire came off, broke internally (those are always fun!), something shorted to ground, or a fuseable link or something blew.

(This stuff is easy to DO, but hard to explain! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif)

My brain hurts now!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Think 'stupid' when working on electrical glitches...think "What is the dumbest thing that could've possibly happened?" often that will lead you right to the problem!

What wire did you re-route exactly? What two points does it connect?

[SwitchBlade327]

it just goes from the alternator to the battery, that's it. IT's just somethign the guy put on so the battery would charge even though the rest of the wiring was shot. I followed the alternator wire all teh way to the panel and didnt' find juice anywhere, so I dunno what the hell the deal is...I wish I knew someone local like you who kenw wiring and actually liked it! Last night I had every odl wino that hangs out behind the gas station tryign to help "HEY! I can start that thing for ya! HOw much money ya got!?"

[Fat Hack]

The wire he's got runnin' from the alternator to the battery is the thick one, I'm sure, That's fine. It should be 'hot' then if your battery is good.

The wire that goes from the alternator to your fusebox (?) is likely the 'exciter' wire run to keyed power...it won't be hot unless the key is on.

(I'd run the 'exciter' wire to the accessory terminal on the key)

You said earlier that the car will start and everything worked when you ran a wire from the battery to the ignition switch. I suspect a problem with the wire that is SUPPOSED to feed your ignition switch...check every inch of that wire and see what you find.

[SwitchBlade327]

ok I'm gonna go back out and fuck around with it and see what i can figure out...I think I almost went through the whole wire earlier, everywhere I check it it just barely read any power (like 1 volt) so I'm guessing a bad connection or maybe mu multimeter is a little wore out...I'll let ya know....

[nomobux]

Maybe as much as you hate too, ya might wanna bag the cruise till you get things sorted out. You don't want to get stranded OR have a melt down. It ain't worth it for the sake of a lousy cruise. Hate to say that but !!

[Rocky]

Ok, I've been following this thread and have come to several conclusions.
1...you've got some "temporary" wiring in place just as a band-aid fix. One fix appears to be a wire going from the alternator to the fuse panel instead of going through an ampmeter and to the battery. It'll still work that way if that circuit is complete. Your circuit is not complete. If ya gotta go the hawg rassle, I'd run a jumper wire from the positive battery post to the ignition switch, to feed it.Hook the wire to the "Batt" post of the ign switch. That will send current to the fuse panel, allowing a complete circuit and your car will run and your alternator will charge. Why the old wire burnt in half, I dunno. Maybe you'll find out. Follow the smoke.

[SwitchBlade327]

that's exactly what I did rocky, Drove all over today with no problems besides me doing something completly retarded (somehow the radiator car didn't get locked into place...engine bath anyone?) When I get it back in teh shop on monday I'll try to track down the problem....

[tommy]

Does the Easy wire kit have a main fuse, circuit breaker or fusable link? Did you check the fuses? It usually comes back to the simple things. You should be able to find the interuption in the wire with a test light easily. You'll need to disconnect the jumper wire to test the original wires.

[hatch]

Learn the basics about cars....old cars are really quite simple, but you need to know where to start when you have a problem....especially if you are on the road and don't have a computer and online help to get you going. I always carry a test light and a jumper wire when out on the road. Add a screwdriver to the kit and you can usually get most cars going again. The screwdriver makes the starter turn...the hot wire gets juice to the ingition and a test light lets you know where a problem could possible be. I always take the problem back to the basics...troubleshoot using the basic wiring that is needed to make it run...battery, starter, ignition and if you have these, you will get home... a charging system is needed, but if its daylight, a fully charged batt will usually get ya home....gas in the carb is also needed. All these things can be checked on the side of the road...especially with an older car with points and a carb.

Keep it simple and learn the basics of automotive repair....get a book or take a night course....then you can do it yourself.

[Rocky]

Glad ya got to drive your car today, Switch. Now, before you drive it anymore you get to do like Tommy says. Use your test light to find where the problem is. There's probably some kinda circuit protection built in to the ign. switch feed wire that's been tripped. Maybe a blown fuse but I doubt it. Probably more like a blown fusible link inside the main feed wire. Test for current where the main feed wire connects to it's source...probably at the starter solenoid. [big post] Feel along that wire to see if you have a blown fusible link. The wire should go to the ammeter, if you're using one. A blown link will feel like there's no wire inside the insulation...there isn't! It's made to burn in half if there's too great of load on the electrical system, saving the wiring from burning up and causing a fire.
Test for current at the other end of the main feed wire. If no current, find out why. If there is, follow the wire along to the ammpmeter and test both sides of it...should be current at both posts on it. If not, replace it. if so, follow the wire to the ignition switch but wait! You've already run your jumper to the switch and now you know the switch works.. your problem is a simple delivery problem to the switch. I'm sure by now you've already found and repaired the problem. Good luck.
BUT!... you lost power for a reason..find out if you have a short in the wiring to ground. You may have a problem I had on my 56 Olds when I was 16. Main feed wire went through the firewall and someone had removed the rubber grommet. Wire rubbed on sharp edge of metal behind my engine and pfffffffttttttttttt!
If that isn't it, check for any component in your electrical system pulling a lot of amperage. I do this shit for a living, so I have a nice, hand held 100 amp meter with aligator clips on each wire. You can take an automotive ammeter and run a wire off each post with a roach,,,,er aligator clip on the end of each wire..Take your jumper wire loose from your ignition switch and hook the ammeter leads thus..one to the jumper wire you just unhooked and the other to the ignition switch post it was hooked to. Turn on the ignition switch and check the reading. Don't start the engine just yet....is it over 5 amps? Cooling fan off? Lights off? Fuel pump off? Make sure only the coil is turned on. Anything under 5 amps is good. Now, turn on each component separately, fan, fuel pump, brake lights, etc etc and watch the meter... If any one of them consumes over 20 amps, trace through it's circuitry to find out why. Run a jumper wire to the component that's giving you trouble, with your ammmeter spliced into that circuit and watch the reading...if it's measurably lower than the first test, there's a wiring problem in that circuit. If the reading is still too high, the component is faulty. I'm not gonna go any further with this now but if you follow these suggestions, you'll find 95% of any electrical problems you'll likely find in a hot rod...

[choprods]

Listen Switch'-heres a little advise- when you do a re wire do a total re wire.....I mean -do not "leave" this and "mix" that.RIP IT ALL OUT AND START AND FINISH WITH ONE WIREING SYSTEM.[ok lecture is over] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Missing Link]

I had this happen to me, and it turned out being a faulty fuser panel. Got power in, but nothing out. I really hope it is nothig major because my system got fucked and I had to drop the panel and re-wire EZ Wire's fuck up. I hate their kits and will never use another. Sorry to here you angst. Mine burned thru the buss bar between the main feed and the next terminal on the back...