uncertain T lives pics

[wideglide74]

The uncertain T is sitting in a friend of my Fathers garage. If it's not the REAL uncertain T it is a KILLER replication. When I was a kid a fellow in the "car club" had this body on the roof of his shop sitting beside a severly chopped 32 5 W. He gave it to a friend of mine (we where about 13yo) and him and his Father where supposed to build it. Well fast forward 17/18 years and it was still sitting around so my Father just recently went and picked from him and gave it to one of his friends whom tore all of the rusty sheet metal off and is in the middle repairing the rust. This thing has been sitting around outside forever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well fast forward another few months and sadly the uncertain T is once again sitting out in the rain after it's most recent owner suddenly passed away. He had collected up a bunch of parts, mill, frame, axles etc and sandblasted the body as it has been outside forever. The body was carefully and creatively constructed out of a thin wall box tube skeleton that was wrapped in sheet metal that was braised on. Since the car has been outside so long alot of the tube was junk.
I grilled my Father about the car and he says it was built by the owner of the uncertain T after he relocated from Ca to the coast of Vancouver Island in efforts to avoid te draft as many young men did. He had missed his car and immediatly replicated it once settled in Canada making this one the uncertain T's sibling. When I first laid eyes on this shell in the mid 80's it was blue and under that was red and under that was you get the picture. I'm sure there has to be someone whom can shed some light on this mystery... When I went to visit it today it was dark and raining as hard as I've ever seen it rain and it was all I could do to get this shot... Now I have to track down that hammered 32 5 window that used to share space on teh roof of the shop with the T. I remember when we picked up the T body in the 80's I was all over the deuce but my Father assured me it was junk as it had no floor...

[wideglide74]

The real deal. WAY to closely similar to be diffrent...

[fordnutz]

I had heard stories of the uncertain T being on Vancouver Island when I lived on the coast. That must be the one. No-one knew if it was a clone or not. Nutz

[porknbeaner]

Maaaan if I could get it down here I'd make it live again. The clone is just as cool as the original especially knowing the history on it.

[Rocket88]

Cool story!
Who can shed more light on it?

[Killer]

why would Scott build a second body out of steel???

He already built the first one outta fiberglass????

http://mysite.verizon.net/kustomsbytsr/body.jpg

I'm not questioning your story at all, it's very interesting. The Uncertain T is what got me into Hot Rods...

I am VERY insterested in contacting ANYONE who has ANY information on the Uncertain T. Be it real or a clone.

[Radshit]

Hey Jason.....I have an idea.....

Let's build an Uncertain T clone........I know where another 24 T bucket body is.....all steel....

Just think........Uncertain T HAMB SLAM.......I'll play



HUH???

[Nads]

Gotta agree with you Jason, one of the baddest rods ever built, even if it was as aerodynamic as Starr Jones.

[Dat Dirty Rat]

I agree w/Wideglide!

Killer story and please do something with it. That car needs to be brought back and i'm sure you have enough kats here willing to help anyway they can...Def. keep us posted...This is almost to kool to be true!!

Dirty

[negativeMatt]

the top of th OG uncertain, kinda looks coffin shaped, whereas the other looks square. either way it would be cool to see it on the road. i wanna see more!!!

[Boones]

man that wheel base was short.

[BARNETT]

Man, that is a FUN lil rod! I want one. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[dondanno]

I'll take it....That thing is so cool...Danny

[hemi]

Thank you Wideglide!!!!!!! Great shot!!!!
Sorry to hear that he passed away....what is to become of it now?

So, if this is the second one, what actually happened to the original? Who bought it, where is it, and did it really get destroyed in a fire?

When all this is solved, somebody should write a book or something....it's more elusive and spellbinding than the Mysterion.

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
why would Scott build a second body out of steel???

He already built the first one outta fiberglass????

http://mysite.verizon.net/kustomsbytsr/body.jpg



[/ QUOTE ]

Is he pouring catalized resin on there and spreading it with his bare hand? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[poncho]

drj...i said the same thing.. "look at this guy spreading resin with his bare hands"...hahaha...crazy man...seriously wideglide,this topic is awsome its pretty much all i could think about today..i would love to see the uncertain t on the road..its one of my fav's..thanks for the info and pics http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Mai Ki-Ki]

Another pic from a local mag...

[Radshit]

I'm wondering why he made the first one in fiberglass....looks like it could easily have been made with steel.......hhhmmm...


But what beauty//////

[wideglide74]

I just spoke to the oldest owner of the car (the guy whom had it on his roof) He did not seem to remember anything about the car aside form the fact that it used to drive around. I mentioned the fiberglass part and he said maybe they pulled a mold off of this one (why I don't know). I also sent him a link to this page which may help in shedding some light. When I saw the photo with the autograph I KNOW this has got to be the uncertain T as the architecture of the windshield, door openings and top are IDENTICAL even the slot where the body was channeled over the rear diff are IDENTICAL. I will go drag the body out of that mess and re shoot these details maybe tommorow if anyone is interested.

[Mai Ki-Ki]

I have to say the roof shapes look different atm....the steel looks straight sided..but as already mentioned the Pics of the 'T' seem to show a tapered shape and definate rounded corners....More pics will clear it up!

Cheers
MAIKI

[Roadsters.com]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/image_uploads/346845-267904-uncertain.jpg

The man was brilliant. The proportions he conceived, the parts he chose, and what appears to be some of the finest workmanship of the day combine to make the Uncertain T a milestone car that everybody loved.

I remember when the car made its debut in Hot Rod, when I was a young kid. We were all completely stoked with it. Hell, even my sports-car-purist dad dug it.

The Hilborn setup for a Buick wouldn't be cheap, but the rest of the parts shouldn't be too hard to round up. The aluminum rims on the front may be Borrani (as in Ferrari) and no longer available, but Kosman Racing may still have some NOS Akront 17" WM-1 rims that are very similar. The rear wheels look like they have rounded spokes, so they are most likely polished American Racing magnesium five-spokes, maybe 15 by 8 1/2s or 15 by 10s.

Great thread. Good luck to you.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[chopt50]

Neat post, and interesting find. It would be neat to find out the story behind what you have found and see the connection to the Uncertain T. I respect the car from a historical point, and the dramatic impact it had when the show rod era was starting, but the weird design of the car never really grew on me.

[Fat ASS Whitewalls]

This is one of my favorite cars. I heard Steve Scott built more than one body, all glass. There was one in the GOODGUYS Gazzette a few years back, in the Pleasanton coverage, (2 years ago?) The body was real close, but the frame was different. The 1/4 windows had a different shape to the bottom of them. No mention of it being the Uncertain T, just something about it being a neat T. Dean http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[slazzen]

in the pouring of resin photo it appears that he is making a mold may be from this very car ???

[timebandit]

[ QUOTE ]
in the pouring of resin photo it appears that he is making a mold may be from this very car ???

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with that. In the pic he is making a mold. You would not like to make such a mess, and build up that much thickness of fiberglass when building a on-off body you actually are going to use.

[Mike Landwehr]

I can see it now . someone buys that pattern and pops off a couple thousand of these things, LOL Gad! I love that car and have ever since the HR article.In the resin pic you can clearly see the mold joint as he is building the drivers side up.no question that it is a mold he is building. I have seen a number of near copy's over the years , but none even came close to the detail and originality of the gennie and I seem to remember that car in a later version w a gastly 70's multi color scallop/panel paint job.Might have been a copy tho...

[Killer]

From Car Craft November 1965:

"With one inch diameter tubing he welded together and outline framework with the desired shape. To this he brazed very thin wire mesh used by plasterers, called lath. Plaster soaked strips of burlap were applied to the outside of the shape fashioned in lath. 600 pounds of plaster later, not to mention many, many hours of grinding, shaping, and sanding, and Steve had an exact size 'dummy' body, known as a plug in the moulding business. To construct the necessary 'female mould', fiberglass was applied over this plug in three sections. The sections were such that the mold could be removed from the plug easily. When the mold cured it was dissassembled, removed, and then re-assembled. Steve then laid-up systematic sections of fiberglass inside the mold, tielded a one pice glass body with the exact shape and smoothness of the original plug."

Neal, I'm way ahead of you. I don't think I want to clone it exactly as it was... Need a body though. Of course I could make one but if this ends up being the plug used to build the original body? I think I'll wet myself...

I can't really tell by the picture posted. Lotsa of people copied the Uncertain T look...

The front wheels were 16in Harley BTW...

[lowpont]

i have seen a car that the body looks preety close to that,on van isle. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Crankshaft Sid]

Now this is hamb, gread read... Hope u guys find out more...

[beatnik]

Been meaning to post these ever since this post got started. I'm not sure where I got these pics from, but someone was influenced by the uncertain T

[beatnik]

Back

[Fat ASS Whitewalls]

That's the one from Pleasanton GOODGUYS. Dean

[Roadsters.com]

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been wondering what the latest on this is. Does anyone have any news yet?

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[wideglide74]

I spoke to the oldest owner of the car that I could track down, he told me he found the body at the dump. He then called me a couple days later and told me that his son knew where there was another one just like it sitting in a garage which confirms another post on this thread. I have the location of the second and complete car but have not followed up on it yet.

[ford34sd]

Hi,
I just joined this forum, and hope this gets through.
I just returned from a father's day show 'n' shine in Qualicum Beach on Vancouver Island BC. The Uncertain T that has been aluded to in this forum was present at the event and I had a chance to talk to the current owner.

He is unsure of the history on his car, but would sure like to trace it. I mentioned I had some magazine info that I could provide him and I'd love to hear from anyone who has any additional info on the car. I've included a photo of the car from the show.

[Antibilly]

certainly Ugly T!!!!! that yellow POS !!!!

[Chopped50Ford]

ummmm, im speachless http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Fat ASS Whitewalls]

The body on the blue car is closer to the original, than the yellow one. The back window (easy to modify) is different on both cars, and so is the cowl on both cars. It does has the "bump" for the steering though. Both chassis setups are pure "T" bucket, not at all like the "real" Uncertain "T". I heard that Steve Scott built more than one body, from the same mold. If that's true, why are these bodies all different? I love the real car, Dean

[Cword]

The original from another angle.

[Lowlife]

I'll add this just for the fuck of it...Aug.'67 Hot Rod.

[Fat ASS Whitewalls]

So who's going to drive by the address, and knock on the door? Dean

[voneyeball]

So, is the blue one the "other" one??? Back window is no biggie, I think it looks close (obviously excluding the frame/drivetrain and those sweet ass centerlines..).

Yellow one looks like a school bus in toon town. or ass. take your pick..

[oil*can*harry]

why would Scott build a second body out of steel???

He already built the first one outta fiberglass????

The story I got was, he had an accident up in Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. The car burned and he built the steel body as close to the original as he could. He is still up here on the Island. He changed his name to Steve Scott or Scott Stevens to avoid the draft people.
Eventually, the frame and all running gear was sold to someone in Washington state.
I took a bunch of pictures of the body a few years back and sent them to Jerry Wees something at one of the car magazines. No one thought it was related to the original. I'm about 10 minutes away from the sad remains.

[Goober]

To take this long-lived string off on a detour, what about Danny Eichstedt's "Leg Show T" which had even more cartoonish (i.e., Roth shirt-inspired) proportions?

http://i16.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/a8/28/a7_1_b.JPG

[55 Ford CustomGrime]

I would like to hear more on this one myself!! This is a great piece of history,If you like it or not! Was a very cool car! Any way I would like to see a pic of that one that is in the top secret lacation! Very cool that it was copied so much it adds to the mistory. I wonder what the most copied car was?I'm sure I'm not the only one who's been wondering what the latest on this is. Does anyone have any news yet?

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[fab32]

I remember that car when it was first in the magazines. I was impressed by it then and this little soap opera saga is just frosting on the cake. I hope the "rest of the story" will unfold here on the HAMB, I'll wait with great expectations.


Frank

[Toymont]

I seem to remember Rod & Custom did an article on that car last yr sometime. cant remember when. If I get the time I will search for it. They were also wondering as to it's where abouts

[aedan]

clone or not man. do it justice

[Mart]

Found these on my site! From Glen Montgomery's collection:
http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/glenm/oakland65_1/00139.jpg
and one from the 65 oakland roadster show
http://www.kmrhr.freeserve.co.uk/glenm/oakland65_2/00162.jpg
Mart.

[Gotgas]

The devil's in the details, as shown on this thread. The only one here that looks worth a damn is the original. The rest of them look retarded with their fenders and too-wide tires.

That's a neat little T, kind of a shame that it didn't stay together. And built by a draft-dodger too, so sad. :p

[utahchargerzz]

Here's my collection of Uncertain T goods! Including a magazine that I just found and bought, that is on it's way from Aussyland. Also check out who my pic is to.....http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/8499/1011937am8.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1011937am8.jpg) http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6666/imgp0024vr6.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0024vr6.jpg) http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/1692/imgp0022eb1.th.jpg (http://img97.imageshack.us/my.php?image=imgp0022eb1.jpg)

[oil*can*harry]

I drove by the place where I saw it last and it's gone.
Like I said earlier, I lived close to it.

[screwtheman]

I guess I'm showing my lack of historically significant rods, but I've never seen or heard of this car before today. I like the over the top cartoony proportions (especially refreshing with all the squash chops going on) but he managed to stay away from the futuristic/alien car look. It's inspiring. And GotGas is right, those clones look like shit compared to the original. A perfect example of how some people don't have "the eye".

Thanks for digging the thread up!

[JohnnyG.]

the original was bitchen, the copies look like shit. any new news on any of this?

[Crazy Backyard Builder]

I'll add this just for the fuck of it...Aug.'67 Hot Rod.


That address is 10 minutes from me.



CBB

[CedarSpeed]

my dad had a model car of the Uncertain T when i was a young feller and i thought it was the baddedst damn car ever. i should kick his ass as he sold it when he started to buy and sell models for a hobby. not sure if it was an amt kit or what i'd love to have one now as i have never seen another and went ot model shows with him for 10 years. I do know that it was made by one of the model car companys years ago.

later

[31Apickup]

I just picked up a copy of the Summer 71 Hot Rod Magazine Street Rod annual (only a buck too!) and it shows a picture of what looks like the Uncertain T driving at a rod meet, comparing it to a picture of the original in Pat Ganahl's Custom Cars book it is really close in looks but I would say it was a different car. I'm sure the car may have several clones out there.

[my alloy:70/30]

UFO PHOTOGRAPHED IN PEORIA!!! (Uncertain flying object)
This picture was taken in 1970 by Tom Medley. The guy did'nt stop to chat I'm sure, but the license plate on the back was Illinois. I always thought this was the original car, but maybe not. The engine seems to be nailhead Buick. Maybe this body came out of the same mold as the first body, as it looks like the 1965 car, and this is anouther home built project.????
Also, I read in a magazine that the owner of the original car traded it and it's trailer to an electrician in exchange for some work done to his home back in the late 60's.
I've seen pics of the Uncertain T's chassis without the body, and there is no driveshaft, only a U joint between the trans and the differential, and no rear suspension really-just some short steel plates attatched to the rear end like a drag car would be.
The Monogram model kit of it is always for sale on EBAY it seems.

[Goober]

Nice rear wheels/tires.

Maybe this'll flush Elvis58 out of the woods.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56386&highlight=uncertain

[Cajun Kenny]

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x290/flh4speed/uncertain2-1.jpg
dosent look the same to me , but im half blind fucked up crippled and crazy.. bring on elvis58 !!

[Hackerbilt]

This picture was taken in 1970 in Peoria by Tom Medley. The guy did'nt stop to chat I'm sure, but the license plate was Illinois. I always thought this was the original car, but maybe not. The engine seems to be nailhead Buick. Maybe this body came out of the same mold as the first body, as it looks like the 1965 car, and this is anouther home built project.????
Also, I read in a magazine that the owner of the original car traded it and it's trailer to an electrician in exchange for some work done to his home back in the late 60's.
I've seen pics of the Uncertain T's chassis without the body, and there is no driveshaft, only a U joint between the trans and the differential, and no rear suspension really-just some short steel plates attatched to the rear end like a drag car would be.
The Monogram model kit of it is always for sale on EBAY it seems.

Looks like it has rear springs to me!

http://i35.tinypic.com/1znu82d.jpg

[my alloy:70/30]

Wow, awesome chassis photo. Yeah, it does have leaf springs-the minimum! This pic of yours would look good framed and hanging on my garage wall.
Looks like a rack and pinion steering box set up. I've never seen one mounted that way.
Thank's Hackerbilt
I just looked at the thread: the "uncertain T" here in this forum, and there is a coffincorner link you can click on - post #14- that has some really interesting info. probably not new to most of you... I just got here!

[Hackerbilt]

Wow, awesome chassis photo. Yeah, it does have leaf springs-the minimum! This pic of yours would look good framed and hanging on my garage wall.
Looks like a rack and pinion steering box set up. I've never seen one mounted that way.
Thank's Hackerbilt
I just looked at the thread: the "uncertain T" here in this forum, and there is a coffincorner link you can click on - post #14- that has some really interesting info. probably not new to most of you... I just got here!

Yeah...its a cool pic!
I found it here on the HAMB...might have been in the thread you mentioned actually.
Thats a different way to set up your steering alright...and with the angle some newer racks have on the steering shaft, you might be able to use one easily AND with a more comfortable steering wheel position. Hmmmm.....

Underslung frame, reversed arc springs, R&P/drag link steering box...who knows what else...he really let it all hang out and said "damn the torpedoes" didn't he??? :D
Gotta love it!

It's an odd little car...but thats what makes it perfect.

[the DutchDude]

so what's the conclusion on this thread ,was the body a refab or was it used for molding the fiber?

[Torkwrench]

I just picked up a copy of the Summer 71 Hot Rod Magazine Street Rod annual (only a buck too!) and it shows a picture of what looks like the Uncertain T driving at a rod meet, comparing it to a picture of the original in Pat Ganahl's Custom Cars book it is really close in looks but I would say it was a different car. I'm sure the car may have several clones out there.

UFO PHOTOGRAPHED IN PEORIA!!! (Uncertain flying object)
This picture was taken in 1970 by Tom Medley. The guy did'nt stop to chat I'm sure, but the license plate on the back was Illinois. I always thought this was the original car, but maybe not. The engine seems to be nailhead Buick. Maybe this body came out of the same mold as the first body, as it looks like the 1965 car, and this is anouther home built project.????
Also, I read in a magazine that the owner of the original car traded it and it's trailer to an electrician in exchange for some work done to his home back in the late 60's.
I've seen pics of the Uncertain T's chassis without the body, and there is no driveshaft, only a U joint between the trans and the differential, and no rear suspension really-just some short steel plates attatched to the rear end like a drag car would be.
The Monogram model kit of it is always for sale on EBAY it seems.


Here's a full page scan. The caption doesn't mention the "Uncertain T" So....Was the original at Peoria in 1970??? Or a copy???

[Fat ASS Whitewalls]

More than one body was made. I saw a yellow one at the Goodguys show in Pleasanton CA. The rear side window was a little different though, but other than that is was the same. Dean

[rockin rebel]

the one in the first pic. is here in Langley, BC Canada........there is another on Vancouver island, driving and painted blue....so I have been told... the first one was , as Jason said, and my buddy, Gene, brought it to Langley. I had it for a while, and it is just sitting, waiting...:(

[ShowRodFreak]

Heres a controversial pic of the magazine Popular Hot Rodding. Since Motor Craft had the rights with Steve Scott.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b48/SHOWRODFREAK/SHOWRODS/UNCERTAINT-1.jpg

[ShowRodFreak]

The uncertain T is sitting in a friend of my Fathers garage. If it's not the REAL uncertain T it is a KILLER replication. When I was a kid a fellow in the "car club" had this body on the roof of his shop sitting beside a severly chopped 32 5 W. He gave it to a friend of mine (we where about 13yo) and him and his Father where supposed to build it. Well fast forward 17/18 years and it was still sitting around so my Father just recently went and picked from him and gave it to one of his friends whom tore all of the rusty sheet metal off and is in the middle repairing the rust. This thing has been sitting around outside forever.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well fast forward another few months and sadly the uncertain T is once again sitting out in the rain after it's most recent owner suddenly passed away. He had collected up a bunch of parts, mill, frame, axles etc and sandblasted the body as it has been outside forever. The body was carefully and creatively constructed out of a thin wall box tube skeleton that was wrapped in sheet metal that was braised on. Since the car has been outside so long alot of the tube was junk.
I grilled my Father about the car and he says it was built by the owner of the uncertain T after he relocated from Ca to the coast of Vancouver Island in efforts to avoid te draft as many young men did. He had missed his car and immediatly replicated it once settled in Canada making this one the uncertain T's sibling. When I first laid eyes on this shell in the mid 80's it was blue and under that was red and under that was you get the picture. I'm sure there has to be someone whom can shed some light on this mystery... When I went to visit it today it was dark and raining as hard as I've ever seen it rain and it was all I could do to get this shot... Now I have to track down that hammered 32 5 window that used to share space on teh roof of the shop with the T. I remember when we picked up the T body in the 80's I was all over the deuce but my Father assured me it was junk as it had no floor...

Wow that looks like the plug to create a resin body.

[Koz]

I'm with Goober, What ever became of the "Leg Show T"? Even cooler than the UncertainT. I'm super interested on how this quest works out.

[D-fens]

The copies all look the same (pretty much anyway) but don't look like the original.

Could be that Scott purposely made the copies to not look EXACTLY like the OG body, or maybe he changed the design to make the bodies easier to manufacture?

There's a chapter about this car in the Ganahl book. From reading it I got the feeling Pat knows more than he's saying. Maybe Steve Scott / Scott Stevens was more about maintaining his privacy than telling the world what happened to his lost hot rod.

[Jalopy Journalist]

Maybe Steve Scott / Scott Stevens was more about maintaining his privacy than telling the world what happened to his lost hot rod.

I think so too. I have read several stories, all saying they talked to the real Steve Scott, and each one is different. Some, there was Canada, some say fire, and some say that those 2 are lies and there was only one made and then a company made a mold off of the model. Who knows? Maybe the real Steve did move to Canada and then changed his name and the Steve everyone keeps contacting is just making up stories for fun.

[Chaz]

Yeah, there's been lots of posts here and elsewhere about Steve Scott and the Uncertain T. They all claim to know the whereabouts of either Steve or the car. They all end up being a clone or pure bullshit. At this point someone would have to present undeniable proof before ANYONE would believe it.

[chainsaw]

Wasn't the leg show T for sale within the last year or so?

[No_Respect]

Ive been told by a good source that the car is still in SFV in terrible shape.. I am tracking down what I know as this has always been my favorite car of all time. Does any one know the wheel base? Ive guessed its less than 80"

[porknbeaner]

Ive been told by a good source that the car is still in SFV in terrible shape.. I am tracking down what I know as this has always been my favorite car of all time. Does any one know the wheel base? Ive guessed its less than 80"


No_Respect,
I was all ready to see some newb pulling up this thread to say wow really cool car or the like.

When you track down that info why don't you start a new thread with a link to this one. I would really be interested in what you find.