tool question - files??

[Dan]

In shop class I tell the kids to only use the wood rasp on the forward stroke as pulling it backwards against this teeth rounds them over and makes them dull - I don't know where I got this idea from, is it true?? And, does the same principle apply to metal files?? I use files quite a bit and wonder if I am using the proper technique??

[Fat Hack]

I've had the same half-round file in my toolbox for twenty-some years! (one side flat, the other curved...I'd say medium sized) If it's any duller now, I sure can't tell!

I use it back & forth...or forward only, or back only. Depends on the job.

But I'm a hack, and use almost EVERY tool the wrong way...so take it as you will! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Petejoe]

Dan, Not so sure about rasps but files only cut one way. I was taught this very same thing. I can't see how using it on the back stroke can dull it but it isn't cutting either.
Another tip, when filing aluminum, use vaseline to prevent the teeth from getting gummed with aluminum crap. It makes it easier to clean afterward.

[Fat Hack]

They sound cool when you drag 'em the non-cutting way! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You gotta CLEAN a file?

(I just bang mine on the workbench once or twice!)

[DrJ]

I was taught to use them on the forward stroke only.
Think about it, I don't know if you are "allowed" in the kitchen or not but if you drag a cutting knife blade across a cutting board perpendicular to the board, don't you end up having to sharpen it again right away? (I do that's why I scrape the chopped onions into the frying pan with the back of the knife)
I was also taught to clean and oil files before putting them away so they won't rust the cutting edges away.
Who ever cam up with that crazy idea doesn't paint the work they file though because it's just a great way tl imbed oil in the mini-scratches on the next piece of work you file.

In reality, I don't treasure "The same file I've been using for the last forty years" like my grandfather did.
Although I do have a couple of the dull old bastards (pun intended) around to snicker at occasionally.
I consider files to be expendable cutting tools just like sand paper and hacksaw, sawsall and band saw blades.

When they get dull, throw them away!

Or heat the temper out of them and grind them into scrapers and retemper them.

Yes,dragging then backwards dulls them to an extent and can be even harder on the nerves of someone standing next to you, like fingernails on a blackboard.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Fat Hack]

NNNNNGGGHHH
phweeeet
NNNNNGGGHHH
phweeeet
NNNNNGGGHHH
phweeeet

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
I was taught to use them on the forward stroke only.

[/ QUOTE ]

The old navy machinist that taught shop when I went to school added; "Ease up on the downward pressure on the BACKWARDS stroke. Very few files cut on the backwards stroke"

[ QUOTE ]
..like fingernails on a blackboard....

[/ QUOTE ]

Speaking of blackboards; he also showed how "loading" the file with CHALK (the black board kind) would help keep the the files from "plugging" when filing aluminum.

Cleaning; always, use a "file card brush."
Oiling before storage? Nope, (agree with Doc on this one) just store in a dry place. If you live in an extra high humidity location; wrap them individualy. I use "baggies."

Keep them from "banging" into each other. (throwing in a tool box with other files)
A little TLC makes them last.Plus they stay sharper, longer!

[Unkl Ian]

Rust will destroy the sharpness of a file.
Clean the Chalk out of your files when your finished.
Chalk is very dry,and will absorb moisture,which will cause your files to rust.

[fab32]

Another tip when filling aluminum is to use a bar of soap on the file. It keeps the aluminum from clogging the teeth. You will see theis being done on some of the vidios that are available from Ron Covel and others. I've also heard of using a wax toilet sealing ring for the same thing. The same principle applies to the rotary files that are used in your drill or high speed grinder.

Frank

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
I've had the same half-round file in my toolbox for twenty-some years! (one side flat, the other curved...I'd say medium sized) If it's any duller now, I sure can't tell!


[/ QUOTE ]

Buy yourself a new one.
Compare the two.
You'll be able to tell.

I recycle some of my old files into traveling toolboxes.
They're still fairly sharp and if it takes a little longer when I'm on the road that's ok.

Not much better than a new file.

Fwiw - there are files made for aluminum work.
Consult an Aircraft home-builders catalog for same.

[Junkyard Dog 32]

[ QUOTE ]
Another tip, when filing aluminum, use vaseline to prevent the teeth from getting gummed with aluminum crap. It makes it easier to clean afterward.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's true...you're my new best friend.

...That sounded kinda gay, didn't it?
What I mean is, I never use files or rasps on aluminum, just for that reason... I end up spending an hour with a dental pick, trying to save a rotary rasp. I end up using a belt sander or a disk. I'll try the anal lube trick... and the soap. If it doesn't work, it'll just mean I throw one more fucked-up tool in the woods.
Dirty damn cheap fuckin tools... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Roadsters.com]

If the teeth in a file have a rake so they are designed to cut in one direction, applying pressure when it's going in the opposite direction makes as much sense as moving a toolbit up to a piece of work in a lathe and then starting it in reverse.

Using a file backwards will just put scratches in your work and gradually make the file dull.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[BigChief]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another tip, when filing aluminum, use vaseline to prevent the teeth from getting gummed with aluminum crap. It makes it easier to clean afterward.

[/ QUOTE ]

If that's true...you're my new best friend.

...That sounded kinda gay, didn't it?
What I mean is, I never use files or rasps on aluminum, just for that reason... I end up spending an hour with a dental pick, trying to save a rotary rasp. I end up using a belt sander or a disk. I'll try the anal lube trick... and the soap. If it doesn't work, it'll just mean I throw one more fucked-up tool in the woods.
Dirty damn cheap fuckin tools... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

The same wax used above (hard carnuba, hard bees, or even 'toilet bowl' wax) used on a grinding wheels works well to keep them from loading up too bad when grinding aluminum. It works very well on the paper backed 5-6" grinding disks when cutting down aluminum TIG welds....it works so nice that you can use a finer grit disk and then DA the area and, if your careful, then you may even get away with using no filler to repair the grinding marks.

-Bigchief

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
In reality, I don't treasure "The same file I've been using for the last forty years" like my grandfather did.

Although I do have a couple of the dull old bastards (pun intended) around........

[/ QUOTE ]

OK guys. Survey time. HOW MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF HAND FILES DO YOU USE??

Just counted mine and I have 29 DIFFERENT types of HAND files. (my computer is beside the tool box out in the shop)

[C9]

29 for me too.

That's not counting the files in the traveling toolboxes, but it does count two lathe files - they're used by hand although the work is moving.

[Satinblack]

Yes, easy up on the back stroke. I does no good and will put unnecessary wear on the file

[safariknut]

[ QUOTE ]


OK guys. Survey time. HOW MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF HAND FILES DO YOU USE??

Not counting my set of pattern files,probably about 5.I was in a machine shop class in trade school and we were taught to lift the file on the return stroke,clean the file periodically when using with a file card(especially when using on a lathe,and never put anything on the file whether it be chalk,grease,or oil.


[/ QUOTE ]

[Brickster]

Any time I do filing on aluminum: rotary file, abrasive disc, anything. I use Castrol stick wax, you just bump the abrasive your using up against the stick while the tool is in motion and it transfers enough lubricant for a few minutes of constant work. This is something I picked up at Shelby because so much of the Cobra's are Aluminum. Oh yea, it also works great on the band saw when your cutting aluminum. The advantage of stick wax over bees wax is it has a little more staying

here is a site that carries it
http://www.appliedbolting.com/lubricant.html

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
Not counting my set of pattern files,probably about 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was counting my pattern files too. As well as mill bastards, points, rat tails, (several different lengths) squares, etc. Doesn't take long the collect quite a few different types.

[ QUOTE ]
I was in a machine shop class in trade school and we were taught to lift the file on the return stroke,clean the file periodically when using with a file card(especially when using on a lathe,and never put anything on the file whether it be chalk,grease,or oil.

[/ QUOTE ]

True, I just thought about it; and I "lift" on the return stroke. But I learned about the chalk "trick" over 45 years ago! And the old navy machinist that taught me, learned the trick over 70 years ago!

One of the machine shops I get/do (they let me "loose" once and a while!) work at, uses coolant when filing pieces on the lathe. Then blow the files dry after. These files are ONLY used on the lathes, so any oil left behind just keeps them from rusting.

Almost everything produced winds up being powder coated (my parts too) and is preheated in a furnace to "drive" out any water and oil.

Times change!!

[disastron13]

You can get "high angle" lathe files.
You can sharpen files a couple times in a plastic tray of battery acid.
And you can get aluminum files, also curved ones for alum. body panels.
Saw a blacksmith make a file from bar stock, cut the teeth, harden it, etc.
Can't imagine that any American company will make them much longer, with the soft and shitty tiawanese ones everywhere.
Good files are really gettin expensive...it's worth taking good care of them.

[safariknut]

[ QUOTE ]

Saw a blacksmith make a file from bar stock, cut the teeth, harden it, etc.

Good files are really gettin expensive...it's worth taking good care of them.

[/ QUOTE ]

And I've seen a couple blacksmiths take a used up file and forge it into a knife blade.Good steel for it and properly hardened takes and keeps a good edge.