Modern Auto Body Fillers and products and some Q's

[Tman]

All I can say is WOW! In the past few years I have used PPG Primer-Filler and sealers but it has been a decade since I have actually done bodywork! Well, I am knee-deep in getting my touring frame ready for primer (about an hours work left til we spray). I have been using Rage Filler and tonight, Evercoats Metal Glaze. All I can say is that this glaze is amazing. I did not know how fast it set up. I stopped for a bit to eat supper (1/2 hr) and went back out ready to sand!? it feathers VERY well, and seems to bind to the RAGE filler better than the old fillers and red spot putty I remember. All I can say is I am sold, this shit is cool!

As for my questions, I see Evercoat offers RAGE GOLD and RAGE EXTREME. Are any of these better than plan Rage?

I also see other Galzes in their line. Any pros and cons vs tthe METAL GLAZE I am using?

Also, what grits do you guys use in succession on your filler then glaze?

[fishtank]

We use Evercoat Z-grip, it seems to sand a little easier in my opinion. The metal glaze is great, but I haven't tried any of the others.

As for paper, I go 40 to knock down any big spreader marks, then rough in with 80 and finish for primer in 180. With a little practice, you can rough in with 80 on a D.A. But you MUST block it to get it straight.

[WildWilly68]

I've been using Rage Gold and it is just tits! Using the same glaze too and am amazed how easy it is to work with. I haven't done any body work in about 20 years and my uncle who is that body master told me to use this stuff. If I can make it look good...it's gotta be amazing stuff.
Bill

[ABone312]

We use Marson Platinum filler at the shop. It spreads awesome, and I hardly get any pinholes in it. I use to use the Metal Glaze, it is some excellent stuff, but all I use now, even for a spot putty, is the Platinum. I sand first with 36, then final shaping and feathering with 80, and finish with 180 to prime.

[Tman]

I used a longboard with 40 grit to rough it in, switched to 80 grint on the DA. So far it lookes good. I also tried 40 grit on the Da for a bit, that wrked well also. I plan to lay on a couple coats of primer surfacer this weekend then evaluate how I am doing.

[DRD57]

I use nothing but Rage Gold and the 416 Evercoat Metal Glaze. Sand paper is all 3m, 40 - 80 - 220. I hear the Rage Extreme is even smoother than Gold. I'll try it on the next car.

[Tman]

So, should I take the frame to 180 beforre I prime???? It is looking good with minimal scratching??????

[Tman]

Also, I dont feel the 4" circle with a stripe of hardener is accurate enough. Does anyone have a better method? Or am I just being anal now?? hehehehe

[WildWilly68]

I've been mixing a little bit less in mine, seems to set up a little slower and give me more time to work it. I prolly go about 3/4 across the size puddle I make and it's working good for me.

[fishtank]

On a frame it shouldn't be a big deal. Finishing it with 180 will ensure that there are no sand scratches.

[Tinbender]

I start filler with 40 while it's still real soft, then go to 80. I leave it in 80, if I'm using glaze. If I'm not going to glaze, I finish with 120. If I glaze, I let the glaze setup well, sand with 80, then finish with 120. I don't have any sand scratch problems, and the 120 cuts nice and straight. I use USC "basecoat cleacoat" filler. Dumb name, but good filler. Spreads a little better than rage. I like Metalglaze and Iceing glaze. As far as brands of fillers, most any "premium" filler will give good results. It boils down to personal preferance.
I don't use a DA on filler, I rarely ever use any air tools on filler. If you sand it while its still soft, you don't need to. Hand tools cut much straighter, saving time in the long run.
T, I'd finish your frame finer than 80. Go to 120 or 150

[Roadsters.com]

This thread has a lot of good information in it. Thanks to all of you who contributed.

Dave
http://www.roadsters.com/

[hemi]

Tinbender beat me to it. I don't use any air tools on filler either. Catch it when it starts to kick, and knock the big lumps with 80... I use 80 & 180 and some 220. It's mostly in the spreading. A good filler patch is like the perfect dump: You should only have to wipe twice. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

As for ratios, you get a feel for it after a while, and sometimes you need a hot batch, and sometimes you need a little more time. Mix well and even, and flat on the board, not over like your beating eggs, and you should have no pin-hole problems.

[Tman]

I can say I have no pinholes! Maybe I just jinxed myself? I do know that I have let my filler set to long before I started to hit it.

[hemi]

I think that the new fillers just don't pin hole easily...I rarely get them no matter what I do. Watch, I'll have some tomorrow for bragging. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I'd think about scuffing the 80 down with at least your 120 before you prime. ( I like 180) Sometimes the stuff will dry in, and scratches will show. Nothing worse than DA swirls underneath a decent paint job. It may just be your frame, but it's a great opportunity to practice for the really visible parts. Just takes a little while longer, but worth it in the end.

[customcarpainter]

I use the Rage also.I was taught to use the glaze as thought it were a first prime coat.I usually try and make sure my body work is flat and wave free before i quit using 80.Then I'll switch to 180 and skim coat the bodywork with the Metal Glaze.Sand it with 180,then finish with 220.There are a thousand ways to do any task,so its just whatever you are comfortable with.You can mix the glaze in with the Rage and it spreads unbelievably easy.

[JimC]

If you have let the filler set the proper cure time and it is still tacky to the touch, You can wipe it with a rag damp with thinner, then it will sand ok.
I start with 36 grit, then 80, then 150.

Jim

[roadstar]

I've always used Evercoat brand Polyester Glazing Putty over the filler. It sands real nice and dries real hard. Holds out scratches nice. Is the Metal Glaze you guys have been talking about similar? Do you use a hardener with it?
That name reminds me of the old "Nitro Stan" Glazing putty. Something I hope nobody is still using.
IF it's not catylized it's always going to shrink.

[TomH]

Tman, did you step up to the plate and get a full face respirator?? even the primers have the bad stuff in them.

[FRITZ]

Rage Gold, great stuff!!!!!!!!
I sand it with 40 then onto 80.
to be honest I dont even use a glaze.
i use sherwin-william P-50 and i LOAD the shit on, it fills very well . i let it drip,.. run,.. what ever, then i wet sand with 180 and prime it again, it might be a bit of work but i have never ever had a shrinkage problem or sand scratches come through.
FRITZ

[Tman]

Tom, not yet, I decided to smoke crack while sanding to offset the fumes of the filler.
It looks like I am on the right track. I AM going to hit it with a finer grit before priming. Thanks for the great info so far!

[Tinbender]

Roadstar, Metal glaze is catalized. Good post with good information. It's been said, but I'll say it again for the guys new to this stuff. There are MANY good ways to apply and finish these modern products. Try the different methods posted here to find the process that works best for you. I'll also repeat,laquer primers and puddy are outdated crap, and should not be used.

[overspray]

You guys are all right on track! Here's a couple more little tips I do. Sometimes I blend metal glaze and rage to get an intermediate consistency for some areas, usually on my second "fill". I blend a little metal glaze in the rage-mix thoroughly- then add the hardner. This is nice for vertical surfaces and corners where you just need it a little "wetter". This costs a little more using more metal glaze, but saves a lot of shaping time. For you guys counting dollars-buy the good stuff. At say, $20.00 a gallon for filler and $50.00 an hour (or more) for labor, saving 30 minutes time on a job more than pays for the product. Everybody's time is worth something and I like to be done sanding filler as soon as possible with the best results. Another tip on hardner. Tman, I see it was 78 degrees last Saturday in Rapid City, Always be aware of the ambient (air) temperature when adding the hardner. A warm day can sneak up on you and "kick" the filler too fast which can result in air pockets or pinholes. The filler needs to cure slow enough to let the gas produced in the reaction escape while it is setting up. If it gets warm cut back a small amount on the hardner. The thermometers in body shops aren't just for the painters. Check my Tech Post-Bondo 101 Magic Dent Erasing Compound- for tips on measuring hardner. overspray